Elemental (Pixar - June 2023)

[CaptainAmerica]

The problem with that approach is then they have to spend even more money developing new D+ shows to attract and retain D+ subscribers.

No they don't. This is what they misunderstood about their own service from the very beginning.

They retain subscribers by people watching The Lion King, Frozen, Moana, Star Wars IV - VI, Beauty and the Beast, Coco, Ratatouille, Encanto, and Toy Story over and over and over again.

Kids and families don't consume streaming content the way adult audiences do. Adults treat content as disposable. They stream a show, and then they're done with it, likely forever. They might re-watch something to prepare for the release of a sequel or a second season, but nobody is going back and re-watching Andor right now. Or even Stranger Things. Services need new, high quality content to attract new audiences, but they retain audiences in different ways. Adult services retain audiences with a high volume of low-quality content to fill up their hours in between tentpole releases, while kids and family services retain audiences with a smaller number of high-quality titles that people will watch repeatedly. The only adult content that behaves like kids content in rewatchability is The Office.

Don’t send Elemental to D+ at all. Break the habit. The predictability is a large part of what’s keeping people from paying for theatrical.

Disney+ has nothing to do with it. Nothing at all.

Minions went to Peacock. Puss in Boots went to Peacock. Mario is coming to Peacock. The Way of Water is on Disney+. Maverick is on Paramount+. The streaming excuse is Pete Docter trying to blame his own failures on Kareem Daniel.

Disney's animated releases are failing because they're making audiences that people don't care to see.

 

[Joel]

I just think Disney freaked out about Pixar's post-Lasseter future and decided to turn it into a money laundering operation. That's actually less of a conspiracy theory than believing it's still a legit animation studio.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Elemental shouldn't go to Disney Plus until Christmas Day. The Little Mermaid remake should go on Disney Plus Feb 14 (taking advantage of both Valentine's Day and Black History Month).

That is gonna move the needle…for sure. Everybody wants the stuff…they just refuse to show their hand and actually got watch it.
I swear!!!

This is too much! I'm going to bed!

Thinking about Bob iger’s corporate Disney failing at EVERY turn can have the effect of a warm glass of milk

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I just think Disney freaked out about Pixar's post-Lasseter future and decided to turn it into a money laundering operation. That's actually less of a conspiracy theory than believing it's still a legit animation studio.

 

[TalkingHead]

The problem with that approach is then they have to spend even more money developing new D+ shows to attract and retain D+ subscribers.

Adding movies to D+ should be a free way of enticing subscribers, they just need to find a release date compromise so the movies recoup their costs in the theaters before being poached.

They released movies on dvd and BluRay around the 6 month mark and it worked, I think that’s the secret time frame between long enough to get people in theaters but also new enough to still be a big benefit of paying for the service.

Counterargument: nobody is signing up or staying on D+ to see Elemental. For all we know there’s contractual language saying it has to go there by a certain point. But Disney needs to experiment with something different because their current approach is a disaster. Get ready for a repeat when Wish comes out.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I just think Disney freaked out about Pixar's post-Lasseter future and decided to turn it into a money laundering operation. That's actually less of a conspiracy theory than believing it's still a legit animation studio.

Again, Lasseter didn't write, direct, and produce each Pixar movie. There was no panic over his departure.

He hasn't had a "producer" credit since the early 80's (but 'executive producer' on everything else because of his position in the company).

His writing credits for feature films are for Cars 1-2 and Toy Story 1-3 and A Bug's Life. And that's it.

His directing credits for feature films are for Cars 1-2, Toy Story 1-2, and A Bug's Life. And that's it.

All the other Pixar movies were written, directed, and produced by others.

After Lasseter left, Incredibles 2 came out, then Toy Story 4. Both billion dollar box office and excellent reviews.

Soul, Luca, and Turning Red went straight to D+. They all got very good reviews and wound up on the top ten streaming lists without Lasseter's input.

Lasseter brought the "Pixar method" to Disney Animation Studios. And DAS went from Treasure Planet, Brother Bear, Home on the Range, Chicken Little, and Meet the Robinsons to: Bolt, Princess and the Frog, Tangled, Frozen, Big Hero 6, Zootopia, Moana, etc... without Lasseter's direct input (except for Bolt).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Counterargument: nobody is signing up or staying on D+ to see Elemental. For all we know there’s contractual language saying it has to go there by a certain point. But Disney needs to experiment with something different because their current approach is a disaster. Get ready for a repeat when Wish comes out.

They gotta another one in the tubes for 6/30…
Let’s see how “irresistible” Bob’s IP is?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Again, Lasseter didn't write, direct, and produce each Pixar movie. There was no panic over his departure.

He hasn't had a "producer" credit since the early 80's (but 'executive producer' on everything else because of his position in the company).

His writing credits for feature films are for Cars 1-2 and Toy Story 1-3 and A Bug's Life. And that's it.

His directing credits for feature films are for Cars 1-2, Toy Story 1-2, and A Bug's Life. And that's it.

All the other Pixar movies were written, directed, and produced by others.

After Lasseter left, Incredibles 2 came out, then Toy Story 4. Both billion dollar box office and excellent reviews.

Soul, Luca, and Turning Red went straight to D+. They all got very good reviews and wound up on the top ten streaming lists without Lasseter's input.

Lasseter brought the "Pixar method" to Disney Animation Studios. And DAS went from Treasure Planet, Brother Bear, Home on the Range, Chicken Little, and Meet the Robinsons to: Bolt, Princess and the Frog, Tangled, Frozen, Big Hero 6, Zootopia, Moana, etc... without Lasseter's direct input (except for Bolt).

You’re being too literal…

Pixar itself has stated that the original brain trust - which lasseter had been apart of - came up with the first 10 concepts…roughly though ratatouille

There was a noticeable pivot after that when it became sequel Central.

It’s not all about lasseter or close…it’s more about a pivot when the new lords took control that has gone that way.

 

[MisterPenguin]

So, I saw Elemental last night and I liked it.

I wouldn't say it was 'excellent.' I would have a hard time thinking of any romcom I thought was excellent. But, for a romcom, it was very enjoyable.

The visuals were astounding as usual. The soundtrack great.

The theme of immigrant integration was fine. Way too simplified to make the movie excellent, but, it gives the broad strokes appropriate for a family film.

Comfort food.

Too bad, tho, that something merely 'comfort food' has to compete with so many tentpoles. This would have been better released near Valentine's day and marketed as a romance.

 

[TalkingHead]

Disney+ has nothing to do with it. Nothing at all.

Minions went to Peacock. Puss in Boots went to Peacock. Mario is coming to Peacock. The Way of Water is on Disney+. Maverick is on Paramount+. The streaming excuse is Pete Docter trying to blame his own failures on Kareem Daniel.

Disney's animated releases are failing because they're making audiences that people don't care to see.

D+ has something to do with it. “Making movies that people don’t want to see” is restating the obvious for a box office failure. The company has fouled up their branding, which is part of the problem as well.

But based on concepts alone, there’s no reason why Wall-E (liberal environmentalist message) or Inside Out (teenage girl’s emotional life) should have been big hits while Elemental (high concept love story) had the weakest opening weekend in Pixar history.

 

[Ghost93]

So, I saw Elemental last night and I liked it.

I wouldn't say it was 'excellent.' I would have a hard time thinking of any romcom I thought was excellent. But, for a romcom, it was very enjoyable.

The visuals were astounding as usual. The soundtrack great.

The theme of immigrant integration was fine. Way too simplified to make the movie excellent, but, it gives the broad strokes appropriate for a family film.

Comfort food.

Too bad, tho, that something merely 'comfort food' has to compete with so many tentpoles. This would have been better released near Valentine's day and marketed as a romance.

Elemental would have been better suited for Valentine's Day, July 28 (instead of the Haunted Mansion) or August.

 

[doctornick]

D+ has something to do with it. “Making movies that people don’t want to see” is restating the obvious for a box office failure. The company has fouled up their branding, which is part of the problem as well.

But based on concepts alone, there’s no reason why Wall-E (liberal environmentalist message) or Inside Out (teenage girl’s emotional life) should have been big hits while Elemental (high concept love story) had the weakest opening weekend in Pixar history.

It's also true that D+ has a much higher subscription base than Peacock - especially (anecdotally I admit) among families, the people most likely to go and see this animated fare in theaters. The option of "should I see in theaters or wait for streaming" is different if you don't actually subscribe to the streamer.

Also, I'd note that every one of the "big hits" for animation movie post-pandemic has part of an established franchise so that may be a big motivation to get people to go watch in theaters. If anything this argues for more Toy Story, Inside Out, etc sequels as opposed to original concepts which I think most here aren't in favor of.

 

[TalkingHead]

This is from an Entertainment Weekly article from earlier in the year. It doesn’t feel like the movie really captures what Sohn is describing here:

If you think about it, the biggest obstacle to the romance is the immigrant father. The (white?) progressive water family doesn’t object to Ember at all. Talk about a missed opportunity! So the metaphor weirdly vilifies the immigrant father because of *his* prejudice and the pressure Ember feels to keep her romance secret (not to mention not wanting to follow his plan to turn the store over to her).

The fact that the water family doesn’t object at all really oversimplifies the class/interracial relationship dynamics — something that Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner is far more honest about. Both white and black parents are uneasy about their children’s marriage.

 

[Phroobar]

 

[MisterPenguin]

Is there any way you can condense your point?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I hope you’re saying that your wish is we can not mindlessly draw sides and explain the financials on this?

I’m all tapped out of “they audience is too stupid to understand the genius” countered with “you ain’t gonna tell me I can’t be WHITE!!” Type nonsense.

Tennis for fools

 

[Phroobar]

Is there any way you can condense your point?

Isn't that the end of the movie?

 

[TP2000]

Too bad, tho, that something merely 'comfort food' has to compete with so many tentpoles. This would have been better released near Valentine's day and marketed as a romance.

I get what you're saying, but...

Pixar spent $200 Million to produce a cute romcom that should have been released against weak competition in the dead of winter?

That seems to prove my point that these hugely bloated budgets are idiotic and unsustainable, if not nearly criminal.

Do you think these mainstream media headlines get parents excited to take the family to the movies?

Certainly makes the DEI staff happy, but clearly not driving the box office.

USA Today:

'You feel it all deeply': Pixar's first rom-com 'Elemental' talks frankly about racism​

Yikes. What's hilarious about that is the clueless "journalists" at USA Today think this is actually helpful to the movie.

When in reality, media coverage like this just makes most parents roll their eyes and avoid the latest Pixar summer flick like an expired can of bug spray. This was supposed to be a fun family film for summer, remember. Not frank talk about racism (which it isn't).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That “supportive” U.S.A. today article is a big part of the current Disney problem.

This is the “positive”…essays about social “reverberation”

Not “feel good” coupled with shots of people streaming in and out of the theaters.

 

[Trauma]

I don’t even know what say about this. The box office is even worse than I expected.

The “masses” aren’t waiting to watch this on D+. They simply do not care at all.

I guess all eyes on Indy. So far it’s not looking good.