Elemental (Pixar - June 2023)

[Phroobar]

Yes, I find it very strange.

With some other recent films, there were not-so-hidden reasons people wanted them to flop that I could at least discern. With Elemental, though, I'm not sure why people are rooting for an original Pixar feature to flop. There seems to be this weird strain on here of people cheering on every bit of bad news for Disney, and I can't quite tell if this is part of same kind of pathological hatred toward Iger and Disney leadership more generally. It doesn't seem like a very intelligent hatred if that is the case, though, as people seem to cheer on every piece of bad news even if it is more likely to lead to a doubling down on all the things they don't like at the company. This includes original films flopping (which will likely lead to less creative risks) and the share price going down because profit margins are not high enough (which will likely lead to more cost cutting and price gouging).

There may also be people on here who don't actually like Disney, though, and for them I guess it makes sense to cheer on the company's decline.

It has nothing to do with one another. Disney is already doing cost cutting and price gouging even with monster success at the parks. Original films flopping mean they need better stories and real creative risks. The competition is making some incredible artistic choices in their movies. Elemental looks like characters from Inside Out. Their next one steals character design from Luca/Turning Red. Then there is a sequel. Where is the creative risk here? It is the same dog food.

 

[BlakeW39]

Yes, I find it very strange.

With some other recent films, there were not-so-hidden reasons people wanted them to flop that I could at least discern. With Elemental, though, I'm not sure why people are rooting for an original Pixar feature to flop. There seems to be this weird strain on here of people cheering on every bit of bad news for Disney, and I can't quite tell if this is part of same kind of pathological hatred toward Iger and Disney leadership more generally. It doesn't seem like a very intelligent hatred if that is the case, though, as people seem to cheer on every piece of bad news even if it is more likely to lead to a doubling down on all the things they don't like at the company. This includes original films flopping (which will likely lead to less creative risks) and the share price going down because profit margins are not high enough (which will likely lead to more cost cutting and price gouging).

There may also be people on here who don't actually like Disney, though, and for them I guess it makes sense to cheer on the company's decline.

I think there are two reasons why it sometimes seems like people here are rooting for Disney to fail:

1. like you said, it's part of a more general resentment towards TWDC and its leadership, and people feel like they're just getting what's coming to them when they are across the board anti-fan/anti-consumer and then, across the board, fans and consumers abandon them.

2. This is a parks board remember. TWDC is so, so far from doing anything that we as parks fans would approve of, that there's no reason to cheer when they get something right in some other area of the company. There is no sign the parks will improve at any point in the near future. So many people just simply think, "F Disney" and they deserve to fail.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

2. This is a parks board remember. TWDC is so, so far from doing anything that we as parks fans would approve of, that there's no reason to cheer when they get something right in some other area of the company. There is no sign the parks will improve at any point in the near future. So many people just simply think, "F Disney" and they deserve to fail.

I understand not wanting to cheer or generally feeling negative toward the company. I get people completely disengaging and not being interested in anything the company produces. I also understand people gaining some pleasure from consumer backlash toward certain moves (like Genie+, reservations, price rises, etc.) that they don't like.

What is puzzling to me is the personal investment a lot of people seem to have in the company failing in areas that have nothing to do with the parks as I don't know to what end that feeling is directed. One poster has been open that they are happy for the company to burn to the ground so long as it takes Iger down with it, and I think that if your feelings about how an entertainment company uses their assets are that intense, then perhaps you need to step back and reassess your relationship with Disney. If they were poisoning the rivers or something, then maybe I would understand. What this looks like to me is closer to toxic fan culture where people feel such ownership of a particular franchise or company's products that they respond completely irrationally and often viciously when the object of their fandom "betrays" them in some way.

 

[Trauma]

It’s a weird form of schadenfreude. To judge from all the repetitious posts across multiple threads, some individuals seem to thrive on it.

Let me explain this in simple terms.

Have your ever rooted for and LOVED a sports team?

They do well, don’t always win but they play hard and have maybe even won a championship during your lifetime.

You know everything about the team. Players stats history etc.

Then one day they hire a new general manager.

He talks a good game and you’re excited. He is going to bring on the future of the franchise.

You believe the hype making sure you have your season tickets for the next 5 years etc.

Then the team starts to fall apart.

Everything you loved about the team is being removed or diminished.

Team starts to perform poorly and people start to get upset.

So now you have two choices as far as I see it.

Forget about the team and move on with life.

Or hope that things get so bad that everyone gets fired and a rebuild can begin.

Well I’m choosing the later here.

I hope everything fails until this miserable leadership group ( that can’t run a theme park and hates it’s fans) gets flushed down the toilet.

 

[LittleBuford]

Let me explain this in simple terms.

Have your ever rooted for and LOVED a sports team?

They do well, don’t always win but they play hard and have maybe even won a championship during your lifetime.

You know everything about the team. Players stats history etc.

Then one day they hire a new general manager.

He talks a good game and you’re excited. He is going to bring on the future of the franchise.

You believe the hype making sure you have your season tickets for the next 5 years etc.

Then the team starts to fall apart.

Everything you loved about the team is being removed or diminished.

Team starts to perform poorly and people start to get upset.

So now you have two choices as far as I see it.

Forget about the team and move on with life.

Or hope that things get so bad that everyone gets fired and a rebuild can begin.

Well I’m choosing the later here.

I hope everything fails until this miserable leadership group ( that can’t run a theme park and hates it’s fans) gets flushed down the toilet.

Yes, you’ve made your feelings quite clear before. That still doesn’t explain the relentless of the posts in question or the lack of consideration for those who don’t want every thread derailed just so you can vent your spleen.

 

[Trauma]

Yes, you’ve made your feelings quite clear before. That still doesn’t explain the relentless of the posts in question or the lack of consideration for those who don’t want every thread derailed just so you can vent your spleen.

So saying negative things is derailing a thread ?

I am currently in the Elementals thread. So I am posting about the projected failure of this film.

Your posts are relentlessly positive. Is that also derailing of a thread?

The posters you claim are derailing threads are actually usually right about things.

If you need evidence of this just go look at the Galactic Failcruiser thread.

 

[TsWade2]

Elemental Review - IGN

Visually, Pixar is in absolutely top form with Elemental. Unfortunately, the story is way too thin and none of it makes any sense.

www.ign.com

Even Disney shill sites don’t like it.

Uh-Oh!!

I guess this is.…….never mind!

 

[erasure fan1]

What is puzzling to me is the personal investment a lot of people seem to have in the company failing in areas that have nothing to do with the parks as I don't know to what end that feeling is directed.

When the film division doesn't make money, you can bet your bottom dollar that it impacts the parks.

 

[BlakeW39]

I understand not wanting to cheer or generally feeling negative toward the company. I get people completely disengaging and not being interested in anything the company produces. I also understand people gaining some pleasure from consumer backlash toward certain moves (like Genie+, reservations, price rises, etc.) that they don't like.

What is puzzling to me is the personal investment a lot of people seem to have in the company failing in areas that have nothing to do with the parks as I don't know to what end that feeling is directed. One poster has been open that they are happy for the company to burn to the ground so long as it takes Iger down with it, and I think that if your feelings about how an entertainment company uses their assets are that intense, then perhaps you need to step back and reassess your relationship with Disney. If they were poisoning the rivers or something, then maybe I would understand. What this looks like to me is closer to toxic fan culture where people feel such ownership of a particular franchise or company's products that they respond completely irrationally and often viciously when the object of their fandom "betrays" them in some way.

I think calling it toxic fan culture may be a little extreme. Toxic fan culture is harassing actors/actresses because you didn't like the movie they were in. Not hoping Disney takes its lumps because they're anti-consumer. I don't really think that's toxic.... irrational maybe, abut not 'toxic.'

If you have negative feelings towards Disney, chances are you want Disney to do poorly financially as recompense for conducting their business in a way you don't like. So I don't find it strange that 'fans' are rooting against the company.

A lot of people have been huge Disney fans their entire lives. When the company you've supported for that long starts to openly disrespect its fans, disregard them, decrease the quality of their products and conduct business in a way that negatively affects its customers, it should be unsurprising that people get a little ticked off and start to just wish ill on Disney as a whole.

 

[BlakeW39]

When the film division doesn't make money, you can bet your bottom dollar that it impacts the parks.

that's true, but Disney has also made at least me feel that parks investment is usually a bad thing. So, if Disney declines to invest in their parks, at least we aren't losing anything. They will likely let attractions degrade more, but as they have proven, they'll do that anyway.

 

[erasure fan1]

I think calling it toxic fan culture may be a little extreme. Toxic fan culture is harassing actors/actresses because because you didn't like the movie they were in. Not hoping Disney takes its lumps because they're anti-consumer. I don't really think that's toxic.... irrational maybe, abut not 'toxic.'

Using "toxic fandom" has become a catch all defense. If someone doesn't agree with something, all too often the toxic fandom defense comes charging out. Every fandom has toxic fans for sure, but they are very much the absolute minority in the big picture. It's just easier to label everyone who doesn't agree with your point of view, or has anything negative to say, a toxic fan.

 

[Tha Realest]

Using "toxic fandom" has become a catch all defense. If someone doesn't agree with something, all too often the toxic fandom defense comes charging out. Every fandom has toxic fans for sure, but they are very much the absolute minority in the big picture. It's just easier to label everyone who doesn't agree with your point of view, or has anything negative to say, a toxic fan.

In the other thread toxic has been expanded to “people who haven’t seen the movie yet.”

 

[LittleBuford]

Using "toxic fandom" has become a catch all defense. If someone doesn't agree with something, all too often the toxic fandom defense comes charging out. Every fandom has toxic fans for sure, but they are very much the absolute minority in the big picture. It's just easier to label everyone who doesn't agree with your point of view, or has anything negative to say, a toxic fan.

I personally think there is something toxic about people deliberately going from thread to thread solely to celebrate the failure of films they have absolutely no interest in. I welcome discussion and a diversity of opinions, but relentless heckling is not the same as well-founded criticism.

 

[erasure fan1]

I personally think there is something toxic about people deliberately going from thread to thread solely to celebrate the failure of films they have absolutely no interest in. I welcome discussion and a diversity of opinions, but relentless heckling is not the same as well-founded criticism.

You can find that annoying, but that isn't what is meant by toxic fandom. I wouldn't go around calling the people who go from thread to thread saying how great everything is, even when it's a complete fail, toxic. It's just a completely overused term that has become a crutch defense.

 

[LittleBuford]

I wouldn't go around calling the people who go from thread to thread saying how great everything is, even when it's a complete fail, toxic.

But there is no such equivalent anyway. Even the most ardent Pixie Dusters among us acknowledge what we don’t like. Again, no-one is asking for positivity all around, just good-faith discussion.

 

[erasure fan1]

Again, no-one is asking for positivity all around, just good-faith discussion.

I agree, I just don't think what you're talking about should be classified as toxic.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Yes, I find it very strange.

With some other recent films, there were not-so-hidden reasons people wanted them to flop that I could at least discern.

I think it’s been the same reason with all the films people are happy to see fail, ideology. Disney has been a moderate left company for decades but recently they have been far less subtle in their films.

Many people feel Disney is now making movies to make a political/social statement rather than entertain people, and for people that grew up loving Disney movies they just want to sit in a theater and be entertained by Disney without being preached to.

It’s the same reason people celebrate when something bad happens to Fox News, Disneys gotten caught up in the us vs them wars.

 

[CaptainMickey]

Let me explain this in simple terms.

Have your ever rooted for and LOVED a sports team?

They do well, don’t always win but they play hard and have maybe even won a championship during your lifetime.

You know everything about the team. Players stats history etc.

Then one day they hire a new general manager.

He talks a good game and you’re excited. He is going to bring on the future of the franchise.

You believe the hype making sure you have your season tickets for the next 5 years etc.

Then the team starts to fall apart.

Everything you loved about the team is being removed or diminished.

Team starts to perform poorly and people start to get upset.

So now you have two choices as far as I see it.

Forget about the team and move on with life.

Or hope that things get so bad that everyone gets fired and a rebuild can begin.

Well I’m choosing the later here.

I hope everything fails until this miserable leadership group ( that can’t run a theme park and hates it’s fans) gets flushed down the toilet.

You must be a Maple Leafs fan with that much pain
With your analogy, Kathleen Kennedy is easily the worst GM ever.

 

[Trauma]

Good faith discussion is the new buzz term for

“We can talk about things all you want as long as you share my point of view”.

People are still allowed to discuss FACTS.

Maybe Elementals or Mermaid made you feel good and someone posted something nice on Twitter. That’s all cute.

The facts are they both will lose money.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I think calling it toxic fan culture may be a little extreme. Toxic fan culture is harassing actors/actresses because you didn't like the movie they were in. Not hoping Disney takes its lumps because they're anti-consumer. I don't really think that's toxic.... irrational maybe, abut not 'toxic.'

If you have negative feelings towards Disney, chances are you want Disney to do poorly financially as recompense for conducting their business in a way you don't like. So I don't find it strange that 'fans' are rooting against the company.

A lot of people have been huge Disney fans their entire lives. When the company you've supported for that long starts to openly disrespect its fans, disregard them, decrease the quality of their products and conduct business in a way that negatively affects its customers, it should be unsurprising that people get a little ticked off and start to just wish ill on Disney as a whole.

I think what you're describing, though, is along the lines of what is meant by the term "toxic fandom". One extreme variant of that is harassing actors and actresses or other creative professionals. But it also involves this kind of hostility not based on subjective judgements of the quality of, in this case, Disney films, but a sense that Disney as something you cared about is personally disrespecting you through the entertainment it is produces. This is then translated into an effort to wrest back control of what they are producing mainly through this kind of relentless negativity in the fan community.

To be clear, I am not saying you are toxic nor that everyone needs to be positive about anything they don't like. You and I have agreed on other threads about things we see as highly negative in the parks. In general, I am of the opinion that Disney has made visiting WDW too complicated and expensive for it to be worth it for the time being.

What we were talking about here, though, is thread after thread full of people gleefully rubbing their hands over the prospect of films failing they both haven't seen and don't have any interest in seeing as a way of sticking it to Disney. In this case, the reviews aren't even particularly bad and it is supposed to be the thing everyone wants: an original story. Without seeing it, though, people are declaring that it needs to fail because the story isn't good or original enough as what I think is a fig leaf for a more general desire to see Disney suffer.

I personally think there is something toxic about people deliberately going from thread to thread solely to celebrate the failure of films they have absolutely no interest in. I welcome discussion and a diversity of opinions, but relentless heckling is not the same as well-founded criticism.

Exactly. What is striking to me is not that people don't find certain films appealing. In my case, I never bothered seeing Lightyear or Strange World, for example, as neither really appealed. What is striking is that there seem to be a small group dedicated solely to predicting and cheering on the failure of film after film.