Elemental (Pixar - June 2023)

[TalkingHead]

After watching Spider-verse it's hard not to look at current Disney and Pixar and feel they are underwhelming in comparison.

And it's not just the visual freedom or exciting action in that movie, it had the emotion you'd expect out of top tier Pixar title and the diverse cast of characters Disney wants in their movies now too.

If anything it should be call to action for Disney to go back to their hand drawn roots to differentiate themselves.

You read my mind. It’s a level of exhilaration that Disney/Pixar haven’t touched in quite some time. Hoping this summer inspires some soul searching in Burbank and beyond.

 

[Willmark]

I order to fix a problem, one has to accept there is one.

I think there are more financial disasters and falling stock price ahead before we get there.

This is a stubborn, oblivious group.

WALL-E and Up (likely) represent the zenith of Pixar, from there it’s been a long slide IMO.

Those two movies had all the things that made Pixar, Pixar. From Brave onwards everything has been uneven.

For some folks YMMV With that statement.

As far as Elemental it looks interesting to me as a concept and will be curious to see if it reverses the trend as of late.

Like you my guess is Pixar and Disney will not heed the warnings of where their business is at.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[DKampy]

in whatever predicament caused them to release Finding Dory, Cars 3, Toy Story 4, Incredibles 2, Onward and the Good Dinosaur all in a row, with Coco thrown in the middle as a rare throwback gem almost.

so this is your own personal opinion….except for cars 3 and good dinosaur… the rest was well received

 

[BlakeW39]

so this is your own personal opinion….except for cars 3 and good dinosaur… the rest was well received

they're mostly critically inferior sequels and middling original films. Onward has a lower metacritic critic score than The Good Dinosaur.

 

[MisterPenguin]

they're mostly critically inferior sequels and middling original films. Onward has a lower metacritic critic score than The Good Dinosaur.

For most franchises, the drop in critical score is insignificant. And Toy Story 3 got a critically higher score than Toy Story 2.

And those middling originals include Ratatouille, Wall*E, Up, Inside Out, and Coco, which got excellent ratings. The rest from good to very good.

You seem to like to imply there is this giant corpus of failed Pixar films, and that's not true at all.

 

[BlakeW39]

For most franchises, the drop in critical score is insignificant. And Toy Story 3 got a critically higher score than Toy Story 2.

hence why I said 'mostly,' which remains factually true

And those middling originals include Ratatouille, Wall*E, Up, Inside Out, and Coco

No, they don't. I was specifically referencing the string of Pixar films directly preceding Soul including Finding Dory, Cars 3, Toy Story 4, Incredibles 2, Onward, the Good Dinosaur, and yes, Coco. My point being that Pixar went from being an industry innovator to being a "solid" animation studio but absolutely nothing more than that.

You seem to like to imply there is this giant corpus of failed Pixar films, and that's not true at all.

I don't "like" to "imply" anything. I didn't say or "imply" there was a "giant corpus" of failed Pixar films. that's a ridiculous strawman. But, the Pixar of 2019 was not succeeding critically/creatively on the same level as the Pixar of 2009. Elemental won't change that on its own, good, bad, or in-between. Although I'm sure you'd rather address the arguments you put in my mouth rather than the one I'm actually making.

 

[DKampy]

they're mostly critically inferior sequels and middling original films. Onward has a lower metacritic critic score than The Good Dinosaur.

Well most studios would love to have such ”middling” films as those

 

[BrianLo]

Honestly, I don't get why so many people are hoping this movie does poorly or is bad. I just don't see how that meaningfully leads to any change that people want. Elementals failing leads us more to Toy Story 6.

 

[BlakeW39]

Honestly, I don't get why so many people are hoping this movie does poorly or is bad. I just don't see how that meaningfully leads to any change that people want. Elementals failing leads us more to Toy Story 6.

if you're referring to me, I don't hope the film does poorly. I just don't think that this film's success will make or break pixar. But hey.. prove me wrong. Anything is possible I suppose

 

[BlakeW39]

Well most studios would love to have such ”middling” films as those

I'm not sure how that's relevant, but I think with successful films like Across the Spider-Verse, Super Mario Bros, and Puss in Boots 2, I doubt Pixar's competitors are super envious of Finding Dory and Onward right now.

 

[Trauma]

Elemental Review - IGN

Visually, Pixar is in absolutely top form with Elemental. Unfortunately, the story is way too thin and none of it makes any sense.

www.ign.com

Even Disney shill sites don’t like it.

Uh-Oh!!

 

[LittleBuford]

Honestly, I don't get why so many people are hoping this movie does poorly or is bad.

It’s a weird form of schadenfreude. To judge from all the repetitious posts across multiple threads, some individuals seem to thrive on it.

 

[DKampy]

I a

I'm not sure how that's relevant, but I think with successful films like Across the Spider-Verse, Super Mario Bros, and Puss in Boots 2, I doubt Pixar's competitors are super envious of Finding Dory and Onward right now.

That makes 2 of us… I don’t understand how the films you listed have anything to do with any “predicament” that Pixar found themselves in before Soul.. Pixar is arguably the most successful Studio in Hollywood history

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Honestly, I don't get why so many people are hoping this movie does poorly or is bad. I just don't see how that meaningfully leads to any change that people want. Elementals failing leads us more to Toy Story 6.

It’s a weird form of schadenfreude. To judge from all the repetitious posts across multiple threads, some individuals seem to thrive on it.

Yes, I find it very strange.

With some other recent films, there were not-so-hidden reasons people wanted them to flop that I could at least discern. With Elemental, though, I'm not sure why people are rooting for an original Pixar feature to flop. There seems to be this weird strain on here of people cheering on every bit of bad news for Disney, and I can't quite tell if this is part of same kind of pathological hatred toward Iger and Disney leadership more generally. It doesn't seem like a very intelligent hatred if that is the case, though, as people seem to cheer on every piece of bad news even if it is more likely to lead to a doubling down on all the things they don't like at the company. This includes original films flopping (which will likely lead to less creative risks) and the share price going down because profit margins are not high enough (which will likely lead to more cost cutting and price gouging).

There may also be people on here who don't actually like Disney, though, and for them I guess it makes sense to cheer on the company's decline.

 

[Phroobar]

Yes, I find it very strange.

With some other recent films, there were not-so-hidden reasons people wanted them to flop that I could at least discern. With Elemental, though, I'm not sure why people are rooting for an original Pixar feature to flop. There seems to be this weird strain on here of people cheering on every bit of bad news for Disney, and I can't quite tell if this is part of same kind of pathological hatred toward Iger and Disney leadership more generally. It doesn't seem like a very intelligent hatred if that is the case, though, as people seem to cheer on every piece of bad news even if it is more likely to lead to a doubling down on all the things they don't like at the company. This includes original films flopping (which will likely lead to less creative risks) and the share price going down because profit margins are not high enough (which will likely lead to more cost cutting and price gouging).

There may also be people on here who don't actually like Disney, though, and for them I guess it makes sense to cheer on the company's decline.

It has nothing to do with one another. Disney is already doing cost cutting and price gouging even with monster success at the parks. Original films flopping mean they need better stories and real creative risks. The competition is making some incredible artistic choices in their movies. Elemental looks like characters from Inside Out. Their next one steals character design from Luca/Turning Red. Then there is a sequel. Where is the creative risk here? It is the same dog food.

 

[BlakeW39]

Yes, I find it very strange.

With some other recent films, there were not-so-hidden reasons people wanted them to flop that I could at least discern. With Elemental, though, I'm not sure why people are rooting for an original Pixar feature to flop. There seems to be this weird strain on here of people cheering on every bit of bad news for Disney, and I can't quite tell if this is part of same kind of pathological hatred toward Iger and Disney leadership more generally. It doesn't seem like a very intelligent hatred if that is the case, though, as people seem to cheer on every piece of bad news even if it is more likely to lead to a doubling down on all the things they don't like at the company. This includes original films flopping (which will likely lead to less creative risks) and the share price going down because profit margins are not high enough (which will likely lead to more cost cutting and price gouging).

There may also be people on here who don't actually like Disney, though, and for them I guess it makes sense to cheer on the company's decline.

I think there are two reasons why it sometimes seems like people here are rooting for Disney to fail:

1. like you said, it's part of a more general resentment towards TWDC and its leadership, and people feel like they're just getting what's coming to them when they are across the board anti-fan/anti-consumer and then, across the board, fans and consumers abandon them.

2. This is a parks board remember. TWDC is so, so far from doing anything that we as parks fans would approve of, that there's no reason to cheer when they get something right in some other area of the company. There is no sign the parks will improve at any point in the near future. So many people just simply think, "F Disney" and they deserve to fail.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

2. This is a parks board remember. TWDC is so, so far from doing anything that we as parks fans would approve of, that there's no reason to cheer when they get something right in some other area of the company. There is no sign the parks will improve at any point in the near future. So many people just simply think, "F Disney" and they deserve to fail.

I understand not wanting to cheer or generally feeling negative toward the company. I get people completely disengaging and not being interested in anything the company produces. I also understand people gaining some pleasure from consumer backlash toward certain moves (like Genie+, reservations, price rises, etc.) that they don't like.

What is puzzling to me is the personal investment a lot of people seem to have in the company failing in areas that have nothing to do with the parks as I don't know to what end that feeling is directed. One poster has been open that they are happy for the company to burn to the ground so long as it takes Iger down with it, and I think that if your feelings about how an entertainment company uses their assets are that intense, then perhaps you need to step back and reassess your relationship with Disney. If they were poisoning the rivers or something, then maybe I would understand. What this looks like to me is closer to toxic fan culture where people feel such ownership of a particular franchise or company's products that they respond completely irrationally and often viciously when the object of their fandom "betrays" them in some way.

 

[Trauma]

It’s a weird form of schadenfreude. To judge from all the repetitious posts across multiple threads, some individuals seem to thrive on it.

Let me explain this in simple terms.

Have your ever rooted for and LOVED a sports team?

They do well, don’t always win but they play hard and have maybe even won a championship during your lifetime.

You know everything about the team. Players stats history etc.

Then one day they hire a new general manager.

He talks a good game and you’re excited. He is going to bring on the future of the franchise.

You believe the hype making sure you have your season tickets for the next 5 years etc.

Then the team starts to fall apart.

Everything you loved about the team is being removed or diminished.

Team starts to perform poorly and people start to get upset.

So now you have two choices as far as I see it.

Forget about the team and move on with life.

Or hope that things get so bad that everyone gets fired and a rebuild can begin.

Well I’m choosing the later here.

I hope everything fails until this miserable leadership group ( that can’t run a theme park and hates it’s fans) gets flushed down the toilet.

 

[LittleBuford]

Let me explain this in simple terms.

Have your ever rooted for and LOVED a sports team?

They do well, don’t always win but they play hard and have maybe even won a championship during your lifetime.

You know everything about the team. Players stats history etc.

Then one day they hire a new general manager.

He talks a good game and you’re excited. He is going to bring on the future of the franchise.

You believe the hype making sure you have your season tickets for the next 5 years etc.

Then the team starts to fall apart.

Everything you loved about the team is being removed or diminished.

Team starts to perform poorly and people start to get upset.

So now you have two choices as far as I see it.

Forget about the team and move on with life.

Or hope that things get so bad that everyone gets fired and a rebuild can begin.

Well I’m choosing the later here.

I hope everything fails until this miserable leadership group ( that can’t run a theme park and hates it’s fans) gets flushed down the toilet.

Yes, you’ve made your feelings quite clear before. That still doesn’t explain the relentless of the posts in question or the lack of consideration for those who don’t want every thread derailed just so you can vent your spleen.

 

[Trauma]

Yes, you’ve made your feelings quite clear before. That still doesn’t explain the relentless of the posts in question or the lack of consideration for those who don’t want every thread derailed just so you can vent your spleen.

So saying negative things is derailing a thread ?

I am currently in the Elementals thread. So I am posting about the projected failure of this film.

Your posts are relentlessly positive. Is that also derailing of a thread?

The posters you claim are derailing threads are actually usually right about things.

If you need evidence of this just go look at the Galactic Failcruiser thread.