Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, what do you know about that Madagascar ride?

Just saw some 3D models and it seemed like there were very few AAs. Looked a little thin to me. Maybe it got better. I never got a look at the park itself.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

For what it's worth, I think your work puts you in the elite group of Second Generation Imagineering Legends (along with Baxter, Morris, Rohde, Delaney and others) who delivered on same level as the First Generation legends.

Thanks Randy, I appreciate the nomination! They are great company to be in. The good news is that most of them are still there and they know the value of "inbetweens". I'm sure when they can, they'll sneak them back in. There is an annual budget to enhance the park with small show elements so I think they still do that. What happened on MSUSa is that the square footage becomes so valuable they decide to use it all for retail, so the attractions that are not big hits tend to fall away like the Arcades and the Cinema, etc. In a DL they do better because of so many AP's using them, but it's tough even there to keep those things.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Entertainment also creates "Inbetweens" that have no specific showtime or theater it just happens in the streets, like the live talent that randomly walks into the Brown Derby. LOVE that. "Streetmosphere" is a key part of making the Hollywood Blvd area of the DHS come alive for me.

Some lands are driven by their "Inbetweens". "Mickey's Toontown" DL is filled with those interactive "kid" friendly details like talking mailboxes and buttons to press with funny results, etc. And tots love that. I'm hoping that the new F'land will have lots of story driven interactivity like that in those Castles and other areas to lend "magic". At DL was did a "cackling" Apple that lets out a wicked laugh when you touch it in front of Snow White. We could use more little things like that in the queues.

Sometimes you can sneak an "Inbetween" into a retail strategy. The Artisan watchmaker at DL is there to allow any guest to watch an artist draw in the window, which is fun if you buy a watch or not. The jeweler assembling the watches in the window reinforces the story of "small businesses where things were made by hand" aspect of Main Street. Win/win.

 

[_Scar]

Entertainment also creates "inbetweens" that have no specific showtime or theater it just happens in the streets, like the live talent that randomly walks into the Brown Derby. LOVE that. "Streetmosphere" is a key part of making the Hollywood Blvd area of the DHS come alive for me.

Mickey's Toontown is filled with those interactive "kid" friendly details like talking mailboxes and buttons to press with funny results, etc. And tots love that. I'm hoping that the new F'land will have lots of story driven interactivity like that in those Castles and other areas to give it "magic". At DL was did a "cackling" Apple that lets out a wicked laugh when you touch it in front of Snow White. We could use more little things like that in the queues.

How do you think they will pull off Cinderella's Transformation and the Beauty and the Beast AAs?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

How do you think they will pull off Cinderella's Transformation and the Beauty and the Beast AAs?

I don't know, but I'd imagine another "Pepper's Ghost" reflection effect. That works most reliably when you are cross dissolving one thing to another. Which is what I think you're asking when you say transformation. Now of course, they reflect custom video imagery so you can do pixie dust and things like that over dimensional objects. (First done at DLP with fairies). They can coordinate with AA's as well. I'd like to see them have AA's pick things up and replace them as they do with the Mr. Potato Head character at DCA. (He removes his ear). The hard part with AA's of cartoon characters is that they look like dolls. Especially Princes as they lack expression. The "Pepper's Ghost" idea combats that as you use the real drawings as the visuals.

If you have an opportunity, check out the new SB Castle Walk-thru at DL (or on youtube). The use of that technology is really refined and incorporated forced perspective with hand drawn animation. I was really impressed with how much show they squeezed out of that space. I think they should reproduce it for WDW in some way. It's that good. Chris Merritt, a WDI buddy (Pooh's Hunny Hunt) spent lots of time trying to nail it and I think they pretty much did. Chris is now working on Universal Singapore so I'm sure he's doing them proud as well.

 

[Figment632]

Hey Eddie this isn't what you are currently talking about but I thought that I would ask you. Do you have any thoughts on to how Disney could fix the mess that Down Town Disney is in WDW, or what you would do to fix it?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hey Eddie this isn't what you are currently talking about but I thought that I would ask you. Do you have any thoughts on to how Disney could fix the mess that Down Town Disney is in WDW, or what you would do to fix it?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "mess". I have heard that many stores have gone away leaving some gaps and know Pleasure Island is gone. I'm not aware of what their new plans are, so it's hard to say.

To me, the key thing is to be as unique as possible and try to give people an experience they could only get at Disney. I was never comfortable with Pleasure Island as sometimes I saw things happening there that if a family stumbled into that area they would be pretty offended. I think there is a way to provide "grown up" entertainment, but do it in a way that would not detract from the Disney image. The "Adventurers Club" was a good example of that.

It's probably a good idea to give people a relief from the characters and provide a different tone of entertainment at Downtown. But I would hate to see more typical chain restaurants in that space. It always irks me to see chains that poorly copy Disney (like the Rainforest) being on the property with low rent AA's, cheesy craftsmanship, bad food and all. Same for Planet Hollywood. Such bad imitation when Disney invented theming! Yes. They make lots of cash, I know. My answer is, if that is so, make them do a bit better job or do it for them. Set the standard for what theming should be on your own property. If they did bring in familiar brands then they should reinvent that particular store any way that could only be at Disney so the guest would go home telling their friends. If there was a Starbucks, it would have to be the Starbucks that has a glass ceiling of coffee beans that pour through the tubes down into the grinding machines and you would have a far superior coffee experience than they have ever done anywhere. Each store should have a "wow" factor. It would also be nice to do something entirely unique as you have things like the "Empress Lily" to work with. I always wondered why things like the Fantasia miniature golf course were not incorporated into the downtown experience, but done in a fun, urban way like on a rooftop. Great malls have things to look at while you're shopping. It's kind of a mix of retail, fun food, and people having a good time.

Themed shopping centers, like "The Grove" in Los Angeles are doing this and succeeding in the process. So I would take a few lessons from these successful models, not that they are the same, but there are some elements that probably work in Orlando. As you can see I really don't know much about the current situation, but this would be my instinct.

 

[_Scar]

I don't know, but I'd imagine another "Pepper's Ghost" reflection effect. That works most reliably when you are cross dissolving one thing to another. Which is what I think you're asking when you say transformation. Now of course, they reflect custom video imagery so you can do pixie dust and things like that over dimensional objects. (First done at DLP with fairies). They can coordinate with AA's as well. I'd like to see them have AA's pick things up and replace them as they do with the Mr. Potato Head character at DCA. (He removes his ear). The hard part with AA's of cartoon characters is that they look like dolls. Especially Princes as they lack expression. The "Pepper's Ghost" idea combats that as you use the real drawings as the visuals.

If you have an opportunity, check out the new SB Castle Walk-thru at DL (or on youtube). The use of that technology is really refined and incorporated forced perspective with hand drawn animation. I was really impressed with how much show they squeezed out of that space. I think they should reproduce it for WDW in some way. It's that good. Chris Merritt, a WDI buddy (Pooh's Hunny Hunt) spent lots of time trying to nail it and I think they pretty much did. Chris is now working on Universal Singapore so I'm sure he's doing them proud as well.

You can combine Pepper's Ghost with real people?? I assume this effect would be done with a face character Cinderella an Fairy Godmother.

What is Chris Merritt working on? The Transformers ride is similar to PHH, so maybe that. :shrug:

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "mess". I have heard that many stores have gone away leaving some gaps and know Pleasure Island is gone. I'm not aware of what their new plans are, so it's hard to say.

To me, the key thing is to be as unique as possible and try to give people an experience they could only get at Disney. I was never comfortable with Pleasure Island as sometimes I saw things happening there that if a family stumbled into that area they would be pretty offended. I think there is a way to provide "grown up" entertainment, but do it in a way that would not detract from the Disney image. The "Adventurers Club" was a good example of that.

It's probably a good idea to give people a relief from the characters and provide a different tone of entertainment at Downtown. But I would hate to see more typical chain restaurants in that space. It always irks me to see chains that poorly copy Disney (like the Rainforest) being on the property with low rent AA's, cheesy craftsmanship, bad food and all. Same for Planet Hollywood. Such bad imitation when Disney invented theming! Yes. They make lots of cash, I know. My answer is, if that is so, make them do a bit better job or do it for them. Set the standard for what theming should be on your own property. If they did bring in familiar brands then they should reinvent that particular store any way that could only be at Disney so the guest would go home telling their friends. If there was a Starbucks, it would have to be the Starbucks that has a glass ceiling of coffee beans that pour through the tubes down into the grinding machines and you would have a far superior coffee experience than they have ever done anywhere. Each store should have a "wow" factor. It would also be nice to do something entirely unique as you have things like the "Empress Lily" to work with. I always wondered why things like the Fantasia miniature golf course were not incorporated into the downtown experience, but done in a fun, urban way like on a rooftop. Great malls have things to look at while you're shopping. It's kind of a mix of retail, fun food, and people having a good time.

Themed shopping centers, like "The Grove" in Los Angeles are doing this and succeeding in the process. So I would take a few lessons from these successful models, not that they are the same, but there are some elements that probably work in Orlando. As you can see I really don't know much about the current situation, but this would be my instinct.

Just wanted to say that was well put, Eddie. One of things thats always bugged me about DTD, especially more and more it seems these days, is how generic everything is and is becoming. I agree that the people who essentially invented emersive themeing and design need to apply some of that knowledge to areas outside the theme parks. At least Pleasure Island offered something that was a bit different, even if it gradually became more and more dated and out of place. Hopefully Disney comes up with something besides more than generic name brand restaurants and shops because thats not going to be the way to bring DTD back.

 

[Master Yoda]

You can combine Pepper's Ghost with real people?? I assume this effect would be done with a face character Cinderella an Fairy Godmother.

What is Chris Merritt working on? The Transformers ride is similar to PHH, so maybe that. :shrug:

You can combine Pepper's ghost with pretty much any solid piece of matter that reflects light. In the hitchhiking ghost section of HM you are actually the Pepper's ghost.

 

[Figment632]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "mess". I have heard that many stores have gone away leaving some gaps and know Pleasure Island is gone. I'm not aware of what their new plans are, so it's hard to say.

To me, the key thing is to be as unique as possible and try to give people an experience they could only get at Disney. I was never comfortable with Pleasure Island as sometimes I saw things happening there that if a family stumbled into that area they would be pretty offended. I think there is a way to provide "grown up" entertainment, but do it in a way that would not detract from the Disney image. The "Adventurers Club" was a good example of that.

It's probably a good idea to give people a relief from the characters and provide a different tone of entertainment at Downtown. But I would hate to see more typical chain restaurants in that space. It always irks me to see chains that poorly copy Disney (like the Rainforest) being on the property with low rent AA's, cheesy craftsmanship, bad food and all. Same for Planet Hollywood. Such bad imitation when Disney invented theming! Yes. They make lots of cash, I know. My answer is, if that is so, make them do a bit better job or do it for them. Set the standard for what theming should be on your own property. If they did bring in familiar brands then they should reinvent that particular store any way that could only be at Disney so the guest would go home telling their friends. If there was a Starbucks, it would have to be the Starbucks that has a glass ceiling of coffee beans that pour through the tubes down into the grinding machines and you would have a far superior coffee experience than they have ever done anywhere. Each store should have a "wow" factor. It would also be nice to do something entirely unique as you have things like the "Empress Lily" to work with. I always wondered why things like the Fantasia miniature golf course were not incorporated into the downtown experience, but done in a fun, urban way like on a rooftop. Great malls have things to look at while you're shopping. It's kind of a mix of retail, fun food, and people having a good time.

Themed shopping centers, like "The Grove" in Los Angeles are doing this and succeeding in the process. So I would take a few lessons from these successful models, not that they are the same, but there are some elements that probably work in Orlando. As you can see I really don't know much about the current situation, but this would be my instinct.

Wow please design all of this and foward to Disney, I wish you were still a full time Imagieer because like usual your ideas are genius!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

You can combine Pepper's Ghost with real people?? I assume this effect would be done with a face character Cinderella an Fairy Godmother.

What is Chris Merritt working on? The Transformers ride is similar to PHH, so maybe that. :shrug:

BRC did the "Spirit Lodge" show where a live person interacts with a Pepper's campfire. You can have a live person stand on a mark on the floor and then the reflection transforms them as the lights go down on the live person. I was thinking in the case of characters that you'd see Cindy's coach change etc. I can't recall what show Chris is on. I hope it's Madagascar, then he'll make it great.

 

[SirGoofy]

It's probably a good idea to give people a relief from the characters and provide a different tone of entertainment at Downtown. But I would hate to see more typical chain restaurants in that space. It always irks me to see chains that poorly copy Disney (like the Rainforest) being on the property with low rent AA's, cheesy craftsmanship, bad food and all. Same for Planet Hollywood. Such bad imitation when Disney invented theming! Yes. They make lots of cash, I know. My answer is, if that is so, make them do a bit better job or do it for them. Set the standard for what theming should be on your own property. If they did bring in familiar brands then they should reinvent that particular store any way that could only be at Disney so the guest would go home telling their friends. If there was a Starbucks, it would have to be the Starbucks that has a glass ceiling of coffee beans that pour through the tubes down into the grinding machines and you would have a far superior coffee experience than they have ever done anywhere. Each store should have a "wow" factor. It would also be nice to do something entirely unique as you have things like the "Empress Lily" to work with. I always wondered why things like the Fantasia miniature golf course were not incorporated into the downtown experience, but done in a fun, urban way like on a rooftop. Great malls have things to look at while you're shopping. It's kind of a mix of retail, fun food, and people having a good time.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Bravo, Eddie.

BRC did the "Spirit Lodge" show where a live person interacts with a Pepper's campfire. You can have a live person stand on a mark on the floor and then the reflection transforms them as the lights go down on the live person. I was thinking in the case of characters that you'd see Cindy's coach change etc. I can't recall what show Chris is on. I hope it's Madagascar, then he'll make it great.

I could be wrong, but wasn't Beezel in the Treasure Room at the AC a Peppers Ghost?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Wow please design all of this and foward to Disney, I wish you were still a full time Imagieer because like usual your ideas are genius!

There are still plenty of them over there that can make a great experience and have no doubt, better ideas than I. But that's not the issue. The tough part is that the self imposed economics of typical stores and restaurants govern what you are allowed to do and the parks generally decide what goes in. That limits the experience to what you've seen before. WDI is an expensive luxury and the company will go to the outside as the outside Restaurant partnership company takes all of the risk and investment and builds it all cheaper. The rationale is that if WDI were to do the interiors I'm describing and you're imagining, they may not "pencil out" to make the money back soon enough. So even though the "Rainforest" does not meet the standards of Pirates, it does please the crowds and they love it. I can't exactly throw stones when there's a 45 minute wait. All I am saying I guess is to "push the envelope" more of the outside companies, or somehow look at the return on investment formula differently.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Bravo, Eddie.



I could be wrong, but wasn't Beezel in the Treasure Room at the AC a Peppers Ghost?

No, that was a different gag, his real head in a lantern mounted on a sliding mirror.

 

[SirGoofy]

No, that was a different gag, his real head in a lantern mounted on a sliding mirror.

Okay, thanks!:wave:

It was one of the few AC shows I had only seen once. I was more of a Mask Room/Library guy.

 

[_Scar]

BRC did the "Spirit Lodge" show where a live person interacts with a Pepper's campfire. You can have a live person stand on a mark on the floor and then the reflection transforms them as the lights go down on the live person. I was thinking in the case of characters that you'd see Cindy's coach change etc. I can't recall what show Chris is on. I hope it's Madagascar, then he'll make it great.

Thanks for the clarification!

Do you think they'll do a Blue Sky Cellar for the new Fantasyland?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Thanks for the clarification!

Do you think they'll do a Blue Sky Cellar for the new Fantasyland?

They may if there's enough to talk about or show. Would be nice. It could be a "meet and greet" preview with all the Princesses in hot pants "construction" outfits with pink hardhats and enchanted toolbelts with the dwarves doing the hard labor. Uh. maybe not. Now you see why they keep me at arms length from the company.

 

[SirGoofy]

They may if there's enough to talk about or show. Would be nice. It could be a "meet and greet" preview with all the Princesses in hot pants "construction" outfits with pink hardhats and enchanted toolbelts with the dwarves doing the hard labor. Uh. maybe not. Now you see why they keep me at arms length from the company.

I like the idea.:lookaroun

 

[hack2112]

On the concept of Pepper's Ghost, I think that Disaster in USO does a great job wih a Christopher Walken projection and a live actor interacting with each other on the same stage.