Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Huck]

In a strange way it's unfortunate that we spent our childhoods loving these immersive themed experiences. When these $$$$$ attractions get changed and or torn down every year or so, we mourn their passing as if our memories have been altered and we are robbed of "going back in time". It's almost impossible to bring back these mega million dollar rides so it's not like buying some toy you had as a kid on ebay. It's hard to be 12 again and not be jaded. Why couldn't we have just loved a song, the cabin from the family vacation, or the smell of the grass at a ballpark like our parents to resurrect those feelings? Why did it have to have COP, Captain Eo, or the Peoplemover!

I got hate mail once for putting music on SM. The issue was that I had ruined the childhood memory of riding it silent and the net result was that the person felt that their best memories were being destroyed. in caps he wrote YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW UPSET THIS MAKES ME. In fact, I do.

It's an interesting point you make. I didn't actually go to WDW until I was 15 and didn't return again until I was 21. Perhaps that is why I don't view changing classic attractions as sacrelidge.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

In a strange way it's unfortunate that we spent our childhoods loving these immersive themed experiences. When these $$$$$ attractions get changed and or torn down every year or so, we mourn their passing as if our memories have been altered and we are robbed of "going back in time". It's almost impossible to bring back these mega million dollar rides so it's not like buying some toy you had as a kid on ebay. It's hard to be 12 again and not be jaded. Why couldn't we have just loved a song, the cabin from the family vacation, or the smell of the grass at a ballpark like our parents to resurrect those feelings? Why did it have to have COP, Captain Eo, or the Peoplemover!

I got hate mail once for putting music on SM. The issue was that I had ruined the childhood memory of riding it silent and the net result was that the person felt that their best memories were being destroyed. in caps he wrote YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW UPSET THIS MAKES ME. In fact, I do.

I have to say, I know the feeling all too well.


*looks at SSE mournfully*

 

[magicmaya]

You know that never got off the ground, right?

:lol: jk

 

[Eddie Sotto]

So, Eddie, how's it feel to be a rock-star?!:wave:

It's great to share insights and everyone has been more than kind on the boards. Let's try and and win "best thread" from WDWmagic. As for the "Rock Star" reference, I guess I feel more like a "DJ" that hung out with the real rock stars (Herb Ryman, Marc Davis, Ken Anderson, etc.), loved what they do, and was able listen to their stories and hopefully learn something along the way. You all have reminded me what a unique opportunity I had and renewed my own appreciation for having the privilege of being an Imagineer. Through these boards I get reminded of that and get to relive some of those times along with you, both trying and quintessential. Here we get to discuss why it's important, why we did things, and what lies ahead. Thank you all for that! Much appreciated!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It's an interesting point you make. I didn't actually go to WDW until I was 15 and didn't return again until I was 21. Perhaps that is why I don't view changing classic attractions as sacrelidge.

It's funny, I'm less emotional about it all after working there for so long. I'd go through burnout. I have sold and rebought my collection of Disney junk several times in my life.

In the park the "designer curse" hits me, (similar to AP-itus) where all you can do mentally is critique everything or only see things for what they should be, could be, or once were. Awful. You eye is drawn to visual intrusions, not what you are supposed to look at. It's somewhat easier now as I'm a paying guest with no freebies. That makes me more value conscious, now I look at price tags. Sometimes I can't shut the "insider commentary" (like on a DVD) off in my mind and it drowns out what I'm experiencing on a ride. The best medicine is to take a kid with you and see it through their eyes. Then you can like it all over agin.

 

[Missing20K]

It's funny, I'm less emotional about it all after working there for so long. I'd go through burnout. I have sold and rebought my collection of Disney junk several times in my life.

In the park the "designer curse" hits me, (similar to AP-itus) where all you can do mentally is critique everything or only see things for what they should be, could be, or once were. Awful. You eye is drawn to visual intrusions, not what you are supposed to look at. It's somewhat easier now as I'm a paying guest with no freebies. That makes me more value conscious, now I look at price tags. Sometimes I can't shut the "insider commentary" (like on a DVD) off in my mind and it drowns out what I'm experiencing on a ride. The best medicine is to take a kid with you and see it through their eyes. Then you can like it all over agin.

I think we can all be guilty sometimes of forgetting it really is all about the children. Sure, we can all enjoy the parks immensely, but in general, the target audience is toddlers to teenagers. Half the fun for me going to the parks is seeing so many kids having such a great time. They may not understand all the stories, or be able to obtain all the thrills, or even see everything that was meant to be seen, but they experience the "magic" as well, or better than anyone else. They have yet to become jaded or cynical, and can appreciate the parks on such a visceral, emotional level.

A quick question on the subject of children in the parks. How much differently do you design for children, versus for the overall crowd? Besides the obvious things like height, weight, brain development, are there other aspects which are crucial to designing a children's attraction versus one meant for the entire family, or a "thrill" ride?

 

[_Scar]

If MK is designed for anyone
Epcot is designed for adults
HS is designed for teens
Who is AK designed for?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

A quick question on the subject of children in the parks. How much differently do you design for children, versus for the overall crowd? Besides the obvious things like height, weight, brain development, are there other aspects which are crucial to designing a children's attraction versus one meant for the entire family, or a "thrill" ride?

You consider how intense the story is or ride system is, especially in scare factor. Snow White is too scary for lots of small kids. The one example I think of is Splash Mountain. You have a ride system that is too intense (the big drops) for many small kids who would love the show, and the teens care less about the show and endure it to get to the thrills. So in some ways, you could argue that the ride system is mismatched with the show. BTM RR is tame by coaster standards, but hits the wide mark with overall thrill mixed with show. Anyone can and usually does have fun on it. Matterhorn and Space Mountain have darkness which scares some smaller kids, but only one drop. Small kids sometimes shy from it. It's more of a tween coaster.

To that end you look at scale, how tall the kids are so they can see out of the vehicle. This is actually an issue as I've seen vehicles where the safety bars and sides are as tall as the kid. How do they see out? Keeping the story visual and simple, but that's a good overall rule anyway. Pooh in TDL was deliberately non threatening, the woozle thing was scary to a degree but the music was not ominous. Aspiration is a big deal for kids. Driving a real car. Flying like you do in a dream. Exploring a cave or having a treehouse. Simple things we wish to do.

Toontown is the gesture toward the tot demo but is limiting in appeal. I prefer Tom Sawyer Island and things like that where Dad chases the kids around etc. It never looks babyish. The JC is basically a zoo to tots and an adventure to grown ups. It's harder to do that, but it can be done. I think you really win when you design something that unlocks the child in everyone, even if kids like it best.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Who is AK designed for?

Everyone, it's a zoo.

 

[_Scar]

Everyone, it's a zoo.

I thought DAK's slogan was Notazu?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I thought DAK's slogan was Notazu?

I think you were setting me up for that.:lol:

True...why do you think they had to keep saying that over and over? Because there was a problem with perception after calling it "Animal Kingdom". Of course it is more than a zoo, but even zoos have a wide appeal.

 

[_Scar]

I think you were setting me up for that.:lol:

True...why do you think they had to keep saying that over and over? Because there was a problem with perception after calling it "Animal Kingdom". Of course it is more than a zoo, but even zoos have a wide appeal.

True, true.

So, what is your job like as an Imagineer? Are you working on any projects ATM?


P.S. if someone were aiming to be an imagineer what college major would you suggest?

 

[DougK]

If MK is designed for anyone
Epcot is designed for adults
HS is designed for teens
Who is AK designed for?

AK was designed for the animals!

 

[Figment571]

True, true.

So, what is your job like as an Imagineer? Are you working on any projects ATM?


P.S. if someone were aiming to be an imagineer what college major would you suggest?

I have looked into that, even talked to Marty Sklar about that (kinda a long story don't want to bore ya with now) and the most constant response is to be a jack of all trades, while that may not help pick a college major i think it helps shed some light on what they look for in people.

Personally, myself, I am a writer creatively, my drawing skills, well let's just say I am at a 1.5 on a scale with the most brilliant Disney artwork being an 11. To counter balance that to some degree I have taken stage design classes to learn elements of set design, lighting, sound. Also I learned more about rendering which has helped.
So all in all I just try to diversify, hopefully Mr. Soto will agree.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

True, true.

So, what is your job like as an Imagineer? Are you working on any projects ATM?


P.S. if someone were aiming to be an imagineer what college major would you suggest?

I'm no longer employed at WDI, that was 10 years ago. I run a design studio of my own now and recently opened a restaurant in Los Angeles. I am doing some very unique or extreme residential work now, some industrial design on what looks to be the world's largest clock, and possibly some more theme park projects if they are "out there" enough creatively. I do lectures and workshops on occasion for large companies and help them learn how to develop new products and brands too. Thx for asking!

My fave site for aspiring Imagineers is
www.themedattraction.com
It answers just about everything you'd want to know. Very good site.

 

[TubaGeek]

My fave site for aspiring Imagineers is
www.themedattraction.com
It answers just about everything you'd want to know. Very good site.

Well, that's appropriate. Just look who's on the homepage!

 

[_Scar]

I'm no longer employed at WDI, that was 10 years ago. I run a design studio of my own now and recently opened a restaurant in Los Angeles. I am doing some very unique or extreme residential work now, some industrial design on what looks to be the world's largest clock, and possibly some more theme park projects if they are "out there" enough creatively. I do lectures and workshops on occasion for large companies and help them learn how to develop new products and brands too. Thx for asking!

My fave site for aspiring Imagineers is
www.themedattraction.com
It answers just about everything you'd want to know. Very good site.

Do you have a suggestion for a major in school to be an imagineer?
How do you get hired to be one?
Is it like a dream of being a sports star (eveyone thinks they can get in but really slim odds)?

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
Wonder what direction Shanghai will take ... I'm hoping for something different ... and I can't imagine the HK SAR will want them copying the DL look so ... maybe they'll go back to your concept or try something never done?

Good question. It would be great to see something new and exciting! I'm not sure they "get" Main Street over there, but it is very cute and pretty.

I love the look of HKDL's Main Street, but I think such a large part of it is the amazing natural setting ... seeing that familiar 'little' castle at the end of the Street between lush green mountains with trees everywhere ... I guess it takes your mind off the fact that there isn't much depth to it. Certainly, nothing like what you did in Paris ... or even the original in Anaheim.

And when I speak of depth, I am talking both literally and figuratively as the shops actually don't go back far ... the Emporium is much smaller than its Anaheim counterpart for instance.

I had heard (strictly online rumor way before Disney announced Bob Weis was getting Shanghai) that Disney was going to go with a more 'cartoon-like' take on Main Street and Frontierland there ... not sure what that means. Also, the strong rumor is the castle will be a new design based on Rapunzel (much like the art in the current issue of D23). That would be nice to have something different ...

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
Great book ... maybe I should bring it cross the country so you can autograph it ... or would that cause the value to plummet? (just kidding!!!)

Better yet, if you're coming all this way, get Tony to sign it, then the value would go up instead:animwink:

I could make it a project to get it signed by as many of the Imagineers as possible (and I am not an autograph geek by any stretch!) ... the question is do I want to take it with me this trip since I will be going from Florida to Paris right to LA for business and the Emmys before coming back.

The great thing about the book is that it is huge and has amazing artwork. The bad thing is it weighs more than some super models!

 

[WDW1974]

In a strange way it's unfortunate that we spent our childhoods loving these immersive themed experiences. When these $$$$$ attractions get changed and or torn down every year or so, we mourn their passing as if our memories have been altered and we are robbed of "going back in time". It's almost impossible to bring back these mega million dollar rides so it's not like buying some toy you had as a kid on ebay. It's hard to be 12 again and not be jaded. Why couldn't we have just loved a song, the cabin from the family vacation, or the smell of the grass at a ballpark like our parents to resurrect those feelings? Why did it have to have COP, Captain Eo, or the Peoplemover!

I got hate mail once for putting music on SM. The issue was that I had ruined the childhood memory of riding it silent and the net result was that the person felt that their best memories were being destroyed. in caps he wrote YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW UPSET THIS MAKES ME. In fact, I do.

I didn't hate the music addition. I LOVED it!

What I hated was it worked about 21% of the time!

I do get when people don't like change. For me, I don't mind losing things to progress if that's what you're truly getting. For instance as much as I hated the idea of a timeshare tower at the Contemporary (my first on property childhood stays were at Contemporary North, so watching it be torn down really made me sad), when I toured it two weeks ago I was so impressed that it didn't sting quite so much.

But when I ride Test Track to this day, I still think 'this boring, empty soundstage/warehouse type building used to house a wonderful, imaginative 20-minute ride that left me humming 'It's Fun To be Free'' ... and while I like The Seas With Nemo, I can't forget being at the grand opening of The Living Seas and how awe-inspriring an experience that was. I damn well knew as a teen that I wasn't going to a sea base on the bottom of the the ocean ... but the illusion was done so well ... I easily suspended my disbelief.

And when I walk the MK's Fantasyland and see a giant walkway and a less than McDonald's quality playground where subs once traveled 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ... well, yeah, then I am angry. And not at WDI ... but at the morons in management who made very bad 'creative' decisions.