Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Eddie Sotto]

Sheriff? I think this is the work of the Apple Dumpling Gang.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Interesting thoughts.

I have watched similar situations with Food and Beverage in Orlando. It's sad too. I generally tell folks to eat at new locations because they tend to not only be the best value when they open, they also tend to innovate and dare to try new flavors, items etc ... only after they've been open a while do they start getting dumbed down. Sadly, this has happened much greater since the 'cruise line' dining plan aka DDP has taken over WDW ...

There's less choice, less variety and much higher price points (to convince people that they're really getting a deal on the DDP).

Woah. Had no idea. Yikes, what a report. I'm not a WDW guest anymore so I have no insight into this. I can see how they would jack up prices for prepaid folks so they think they are getting a better deal. I always know when you see those automatic portion control things at a bar that the drinks will be lame.

The "refinement into mediocrity and back" (or "dumbing down") cycle seems to be pretty much the effect of corporate culture. Car restyling is a good example IMHO. Look at the Ford Mustang and especially the T-Bird over the years. 1964 Mustang was tight, hip and small, and then they pimp it out slightly to exploit it each year trying to get a wider and wider family market, wearing off the edginess, until by the 1973 it's a huge bloated pig, then it shrinks again (thanks to the gas crisis) and cycles through styling changes till it's nice again and so on. Look at how the Camaro was designed into extinction over the years, now were back at the neo-'68 Camaro! The T-Bird was a hot 2 seater than eventually ended up as a big "flying brick" sedan and then back to a 2 seater. Now it's gone. They should bring it back as a Tesla-esque all electric sports car. Oh well, you get the idea. Too bad it eventually results in bankruptcy.

 

[WDW1974]

Woah. Had no idea. Yikes, what a report. I'm not a WDW guest anymore so I have no insight into this. I can see how they would jack up prices for prepaid folks so they think they are getting a better deal.

Some of it has been beyond belief.

A few years back during the 'free dining period' (when they toss in the DDP for booking during prime hurricane season in August and September) I went into Chefs de France (where I had booked dinner six months in advance) only to find the pepper filet that I loved and was about $24.99 had been taken off the menu and the beef offering was ... I kid you not ... a $23 hamburger!!!

This is the insidious nature of the DDP. It's also why Dieter Hannig, who helped raise Disney to world class in some dining circles, took a 'buyout' earlier this year. The direction of WDW Food and Beverage is obvious.

I am headed there for 11 days and in the past it would have been likely I'd have at least one full serve meal a day at a WDW location, but this time it may be 3-4 tops.

They have WalMarted their menus to the point where most places have between six and nine entrees and they are very much the same ... the biggest differences will be the seasonings and side items to make them 'fit' their location.

They also have removed prime rib from all locations (after lying to the public and media) last year that they were only taking it away from buffets (they also spun it as something guests requested, which is so laughable I don't even get how they'd think anyone was dumb enough to buy it).

The price points were all raised again recently. When the least expensive entree on the lunch menu at Brown Derby is $22 (excepting a $15 Cobb salad, which I am sure has had its size shrunk) something is wrong.

I always know when you see those automatic portion control things at a bar that the drinks will be lame.

Tell me about it.

That's to control literally every drop of booze. And again ... great Disney example. They used to have terrific margaritas at the stand at Mexico at EPCOT. They cost about $6.50 and you got a very healthy buzz from one (which is why I always enjoyed two!) ... Now, they're around $9 and they might as well be slurpees because the alcohol content is the same.

There's a constant nickel and diming ... a gouging at WDW Food and Beverage ... makes me wonder who's been doing the consulting for them of late (TK likely).

The "refinement into mediocrity and back" (or "dumbing down") cycle seems to be pretty much the effect of corporate culture. Car restyling is a good example IMHO. Look at the Ford Mustang and especially the T-Bird over the years. 1964 Mustang was tight, hip and small, and then they pimp it out slightly to exploit it each year trying to get a wider and wider family market, wearing off the edginess, until by the 1973 it's a huge bloated pig, then it shrinks again (thanks to the gas crisis) and cycles through styling changes till it's nice again and so on. Look at how the Camaro was designed into extinction over the years, now were back at the neo-'68 Camaro! The T-Bird was a hot 2 seater than eventually ended up as a big "flying brick" sedan and then back to a 2 seater. Now it's gone. They should bring it back as a Tesla-esque all electric sports car. Oh well, you get the idea. Too bad it eventually results in bankruptcy.

Great example!!!

But to me, that's the mentality of everything today. It's a corporate mindset that people only want crap, they'll only pay for crap, so let's give them crap. ... The problem is they aren't charging crap prices.

If I can get an edible and often tasty 99 cent burger at Wendy's on 535, why is it Disney can't give me one in its parks for 5-7 times that.

 

[CBOMB]

Woah. Had no idea. Yikes, what a report. I'm not a WDW guest anymore so I have no insight into this. I can see how they would jack up prices for prepaid folks so they think they are getting a better deal. I always know when you see those automatic portion control things at a bar that the drinks will be lame.

The "refinement into mediocrity and back" (or "dumbing down") cycle seems to be pretty much the effect of corporate culture. Car restyling is a good example IMHO. Look at the Ford Mustang and especially the T-Bird over the years. 1964 Mustang was tight, hip and small, and then they pimp it out slightly to exploit it each year trying to get a wider and wider family market, wearing off the edginess, until by the 1973 it's a huge bloated pig, then it shrinks again (thanks to the gas crisis) and cycles through styling changes till it's nice again and so on. Look at how the Camaro was designed into extinction over the years, now were back at the neo-'68 Camaro! The T-Bird was a hot 2 seater than eventually ended up as a big "flying brick" sedan and then back to a 2 seater. Now it's gone. They should bring it back as a Tesla-esque all electric sports car. Oh well, you get the idea. Too bad it eventually results in bankruptcy.

The question to me is, why did TWDC have to succumb to this way of thinking that corporate America has fallen into?

Why couldn't they have maintained the standards that some of us grew up with, and have been trained from youth to expect?

I know they still have some talent there. Maybe not nearly as much as in the past, but still some. Has TWDC decided that their past Legacy is no longer relevant today or it's just so much more profitable to produce mediocrity, that we'll let the next generation of management worry about long term effects.

 

[jt04]

The question to me is, why did TWDC have to succumb to this way of thinking that corporate America has fallen into?

Why couldn't they have maintained the standards that some of us grew up with, and have been trained from youth to expect?

I know they still have some talent there. Maybe not nearly as much as in the past, but still some. Has TWDC decided that their past Legacy is no longer relevant today or it's just so much more profitable to produce mediocrity, that we'll let the next generation of management worry about long term effects.

So I take it you have not seen the new HoP reviews?

 

[hack2112]

So I take it you have not seen the new HoP reviews?

So I take it you have not seen the new Stitch's Supersonic Celebration reviews? Oh, wait...

 

[jt04]

So I take it you have not seen the new Stitch's Supersonic Celebration reviews? Oh, wait...

I'm the king :king: of "no stitch for no reasons ever". I loathe all things Stitch.

Of course it also was generated locally and not by WDI. Obviously.

 

[hack2112]

I'm the king :king: of "no stitch for no reasons ever". I loathe all things Stitch.

Of course it also was generated locally and not by WDI. Obviously.

The script had to come from somewhere.
The technology had to come from somewhere.
The design of the program had to come from somewhere.
The set design had to come from somewhere.
The costumes had to come from somewhere.

WDI obviously developed it. However it wasn't done by any of the big names flashed around by the WDC. (Actually, since when are writing Imagineers really credited for their work. That should change.)

 

[jt04]

The script had to come from somewhere.
The technology had to come from somewhere.
The design of the program had to come from somewhere.
The set design had to come from somewhere.
The costumes had to come from somewhere.

WDI obviously developed it. However it wasn't done by any of the big names flashed around by the WDC. (Actually, since when are writing Imagineers really credited for their work. That should change.)

I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

 

[hack2112]

I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

Then who else did it? It's an attraction in WDW. Unfortunately Marketing can't be the bane of all of WDW's problems.

 

[jt04]

Then who else did it? It's an attraction in WDW. Unfortunately Marketing can't be the bane of all of WDW's problems.

Ask an insider, but I know someone said it was not a WDI creation.

 

[hack2112]

Ask an insider, but I know someone said it was not a WDI creation.

It's not like WDI can't make a horrible script. See: Spaceship Earth

WDI has more writers then you can shake a kid at. And you know what they do? Write. They write everything from the opening spiel to the main production and even the goodbye speech.

It's just very hard to believe that TDO wouldn't enlist people they pay to write scripts to write a script.

 

[CBOMB]

So I take it you have not seen the new HoP reviews?

Yes I have, and I'm glad they have shown an interest in improving their attractions. which they should have been doing all along. They did an excellent job on HM, and I'm thankful that they gave a nice little improvement to the Studios with TSM.

The problem I have is that it's taken so long to make the much needed repairs, and improvements that in the past were part of the norm. Now do you care to discuss the short comings of PotC? I sure don't, but we can if you insist. How about the strip mall feel of MS which you readily admit is of no interest to you.

You see some of us just don't like the general direction WDW has been going in so many areas, while some people thing it's just find.

You seem to be willing to except any old bone that is thrown your way by TWDC. I am happy for any improvement that is made to the Parks, however I think there needs to be a turn around in philosphy for the TWDC to show massive improvement.

 

[The Conundrum]

Yes I have, and I'm glad they have shown an interest in improving their attractions. which they should have been doing all along. They did an excellent job on HM, and I'm thankful that they gave a nice little improvement to the Studios with TSM.

The problem I have is that it's taken so long to make the much needed repairs, and improvements that in the past were part of the norm. Now do you care to discuss the short comings of PotC? I sure don't, but we can if you insist. How about the strip mall feel of MS which you readily admit is of no interest to you.

You see some of us just don't like the general direction WDW has been going in so many areas, while some people thing it's just find.

You seem to be willing to except any old bone that is thrown your way by TWDC. I am happy for any improvement that is made to the Parks, however I think there needs to be a turn around in philosphy for the TWDC to show massive improvement.

I agree with you 100% and I don't get why JT and Wannabe can't understand our issues or what they are doing wrong by defending poor business practices.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'm the king :king: of "no stitch for no reasons ever". I loathe all things Stitch.

Of course it also was generated locally and not by WDI. Obviously.

The script had to come from somewhere.
The technology had to come from somewhere.
The design of the program had to come from somewhere.
The set design had to come from somewhere.
The costumes had to come from somewhere.

WDI obviously developed it. However it wasn't done by any of the big names flashed around by the WDC. (Actually, since when are writing Imagineers really credited for their work. That should change.)

I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

Then who else did it? It's an attraction in WDW. Unfortunately Marketing can't be the bane of all of WDW's problems.

Ask an insider, but I know someone said it was not a WDI creation.

It's not like WDI can't make a horrible script. See: Spaceship Earth

WDI has more writers then you can shake a kid at. And you know what they do? Write. They write everything from the opening spiel to the main production and even the goodbye speech.

It's just very hard to believe that TDO wouldn't enlist people they pay to write scripts to write a script.

Hack, i gotta say, you are wrong on this... Stitch's SuperSonic Failure was ENTERTAINMENTS abomination, not WDI...

 

[Captain Chaos]

I agree with you 100% and I don't get why JT and Wannabe can't understand our issues or what they are doing wrong by defending poor business practices.

Well, I think we found the co-founders of the DOM.... JT and Wannabe... sniffing the pixie dust....

I am not a doom and gloomer, and Con, you know how much you and I have gone back and forth about the negativity, but, when you are right, you are right... and heck, when we start applauding a paint job saying YEAH!!!! PAINT!!! WHOO HOOO something is drastically wrong.. But, the new "sheriff" has a plan.. one paint brush at a time...

 

[RSoxNo1]

I didn't think this was worth a new thread, but there seem to be some general park questions going on in here. Why doesn't Disney offer morning/evening extra Magic Hours for Annual Passholders?

Is the thought process that the local Annual Passholders wouldn't spend money, and the non-local ones are probably staying in the parks?

 

[WDW1974]

The question to me is, why did TWDC have to succumb to this way of thinking that corporate America has fallen into?

The easy answer is it didn't ... the sadder part is that so many people don't even recognize it because it has become so ingrained in the 21st century American mindset.

The changes at Disney began in the mid-90s when they threw out the playbook that made them everything they were ... and while there have been ebbs and flows since (and yeah, that means some positive changes) the general trend is downward because management either doesn't understand or care about the Disney Legacy.

Why couldn't they have maintained the standards that some of us grew up with, and have been trained from youth to expect?

Because they couldn't compete that way (now do I use a sarcastic smiley or do I 'splain that Disney was always without peer and therefore was never in competition with anyone but itself and topping its prior greatness?)

I know they still have some talent there. Maybe not nearly as much as in the past, but still some. Has TWDC decided that their past Legacy is no longer relevant today or it's just so much more profitable to produce mediocrity, that we'll let the next generation of management worry about long term effects.

Well ... we all know how long Eisner was at Disney ... does anyone see Iger at the company in 2015? I sure don't. And so many of Rasulo's minions are very close to retirement age (which by Disney standards is pretty much the same age as DL).

There is plenty of talent, even in exec circles. And WDI and Pixar and even FA are loaded with it ... but it has to be allowed to flourish. That doesn't seem to be happening anywhere except Emeryville and, even there, there have been signs that corporate Mousedates are negatively affecting the artists.

 

[WDW1974]

Hack, i gotta say, you are wrong on this... Stitch's SuperSonic Failure was ENTERTAINMENTS abomination, not WDI...

Yeah. This was a WDW project, even if the LCI technology came from WDI. ... I'm not sure how much influence they had, but I've been told this came from Francois Leroiux, who did some great things at DLP but hasn't done a thing of note in Florida other than hanging lights on Cindy's at Christmas time (something he did in Paris first) and not exactly an amazingly unique thought.

 

[WDW1974]

I didn't think this was worth a new thread, but there seem to be some general park questions going on in here. Why doesn't Disney offer morning/evening extra Magic Hours for Annual Passholders?

Is the thought process that the local Annual Passholders wouldn't spend money, and the non-local ones are probably staying in the parks?

Well ... we should let Eddie weigh in on this one since it's his thread!

But I'm sure the thinking is that it's a perq for resort guests to keep it as exclusive as possible (not easy anyway with 30,000 rooms/timeshares/campsites). You let APs in and it might as well be open to all ...