Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[EPCOT Explorer]

Then who else did it? It's an attraction in WDW. Unfortunately Marketing can't be the bane of all of WDW's problems.

It plays a big part, though. However, they might, and should have to change the product before the re market it though.

 

[hack2112]

Hack, i gotta say, you are wrong on this... Stitch's SuperSonic Failure was ENTERTAINMENTS abomination, not WDI...

This had to go through some channels through WDI, however. Their Glendale headquarters has everything from giant workspaces to presentation rooms to a circlevision theater/sound studio. (Coolest. Tour. Ever.) Once again, Entertainment can only account for so much. Red flags should have still gone up, and whether they were or weren't, they now have a permanantly closed show and a dark theater that is now a true waste of space.

It plays a big part, though. However, they might, and should have to change the product before the re market it though.

Sorry about the Marketing line. It doesn't make much sense to the Disney fan, but it makes a whole lot of sense to the Halloween Horror Nights fan. And since the website has updated, it's been on the brain a bit.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

So I take it you have not seen the new HoP reviews?

I've read it's really good and something WDI should be proud of. Like the HM upgrades, MK is getting some great new things that needed attention. Could more be done? Sure. With the economy in the shape it's in, I'm surprised that they are doing as much as they are.

One reason I posted about the cycles of how things get "blanded" out, is to illustrate as bad as things get, that they DO go back in the other direction eventually. Dider did come in to rescue us from horrible food and the pendulum swung into a good era that has run it's course. We'll miss him. Long live the California Grill! There is hope!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Well ... we should let Eddie weigh in on this one since it's his thread!

But I'm sure the thinking is that it's a perq for resort guests to keep it as exclusive as possible (not easy anyway with 30,000 rooms/timeshares/campsites). You let APs in and it might as well be open to all ...

No idea. DL has 3 hotels as well and less guests, so I'm not sure why not. 1974 may be right about the AP aspect, they are overrun. I have no indie info, more of an OPs issue.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I've been reading lots of the posts centered on the WDC not letting creative talent have any expression or flourish etc. I don't really agree with this in all cases. There are lots of reasons bad things get built

The Nemo Sub ride at DL was eventually Lassiter's baby to play with and he and WDI ran the budget straight through the roof (over 100m for a low capacity rehab) redoing video and sets, etc. and everyone stood back and let them do what they felt it would take to make it work. (I've never been on it.) The Carsland in DCA is his to run as well, so it may be more of the same. Iger bought Pixar to get creative leadership of the highest quality, and is using that input and backing it with $$$ as much as he can. I don't think those $$$$ decisions are coming from people who want mediocrity. They have high expectations once the money is spent, so the expectation is that if it goes over budget, it better be a hit. I respect that. I know that doesn't speak to the problems you are all raising with food, cutbacks, etc.
But I think it's fair to be the "mouse's advocate" once in a while.

 

[jt04]

I've read it's really good and something WDI should be proud of. Like the HM upgrades, MK is getting some great new things that needed attention. Could more be done? Sure. With the economy in the shape it's in, I'm surprised that they are doing as much as they are.

One reason I posted about the cycles of how things get "blanded" out, is to illustrate as bad as things get, that they DO go back in the other direction eventually. Dider did come in to rescue us from horrible food and the pendulum swung into a good era that has run it's course. We'll miss him. Long live the California Grill! There is hope!

Exactly my point. Everyone assumes that I am happy with the state of WDW. I have never said that. In fact I used to be the WDW74 of these boards. I used to get bashed for being negative. But I see the obvious unmistakeable trends moving through the company. I listed them here a few days ago. For the last time I want to set the record straight. I am not happy with the overall state of WDW. But I know that help is on the way. You are right ES, there is hope, and that pendulum is heading towards WDW.

I have to admit though, it is fun watching some of the pessimists totally misread my posts and make ________ of themselves.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Since this supposedly is "my thread" (never had one before and after this you'll kick me off), I'll daintily put this out there.

I thrive on the potential of our better nature. ("Never underestimate someone that overestimates themselves"). That's how I got wherever I am.

The conversations that I'm most likely to engage in are forward looking and seek what can be, not so much what can't. We all know what isn't, wasn't, and what shouldn't have been. It's about what we're gonna do, not just what was done poorly. Not that it didn't happen or something shouldn't be corrected or that discussing some of those things isn't valuable to a degree, as past lessons can inform the new ideas or helps us understand what the future may hold. I think I've been able to shed inside light on why good or bad projects or policies happen, but I think I can provide the most value to you by posting on nuances to the parks or what may be. The fun stuff, the inside Walt stories. Having said that, all of your insights are appreciated and enlightening for me.

But....(twinkle) what if EPCOT was a multi user persistent 3D world? What if we had some real Somali Pirates in the Showcase Lagoon? or they integrated the Tiki Room into the Poly hotel as part of a big lavish dinner show? What if the all the panels of the EPCOT Ball opened up and inflatable wedges came out and made a giant Cube to project on? Huh? (not serious about the Somalis)

BTW- I'm not trying to skirt the issues. I think you are right when you say that the basic philosophy of a company determines its end product good and bad. Very true. This thread has dealt with "soul" and "culture" alot and I believe it all sways on the same pendulum and eventually will come back as extremely as it left. Right now we are in a globally unique economic environment where nothing is "business as usual", so I find it hard to be overly judgemental right now. I'll leave that to you as WDW is your backyard!

 

[Duckberg]

eddie's TAKE

GOOD points Duckberg

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I have been absolutely mesmerized by this thread since it's inception, and since I've been reading this forum I've gone back and forth between being a pixie dust snorter, and a darksider, as I have felt that both sides have made valid points, the one thing I keep coming back to, is that TWDC has been and continues to be, one of the most well run companies in the world.

Having said that, (and I don't presume to speak for him), I've felt just like 74, when just this year, standing on main street in the MK, watching strollers, being wheeled in every direction, loaded down with generic disney plush dolls, as moms rushed to get their kids to the next photo op, with some princess or another, wondering what happened to the main street I rememberd as a child, with the sights, sounds, and smells, that literally transported me to a idealized main street of America at the turn of the century. Yes, I thought the MK had lost it's soul.

I, still think, that WDW, and I've gone at least once a year since it opened, is the most unique, special, and (queue the pixie dust sprinklers) magical places on earth.

Now I have a couple of questions,

How much of Walt's original vision remains as the guiding principal for all of the theme park divisions?

"To all who come to this happy place; welcome. Disneyland is your land. Here age relives fond memories of the past...and here youth may savor the challenge and promise of the future. Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams and the hard facts that have created America...with the hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world."

Obviously, there is a tension between that vision, and the need to satisfy the bottomline, when you are beholding to shareholders, who only see profit and loss as a means of judging sucess and failure.

I personally think, that by and large TWDC has done that, just about as well as they possibly could have, given the way the world has changed in the last 50 years.

Assuming you think there will be a WDW 50 years from now how much of Walt's guiding principle will remain?

 

[MousDad]

I think it is abundantly clear that the modern WDC guiding principle is:

"Adhere to the founding principles to as great an extent as possible up until [insert chosen business component] is compromised."

rather than:

"Adhere to the found principles first, even if at the expense of compromising [insert chosen business component]."

But hey, it could be worse. They could blow off the founding principles entirely.

 

[whylightbulb]

I've been reading lots of the posts centered on the WDC not letting creative talent have any expression or flourish etc. I don't really agree with this in all cases. There are lots of reasons bad things get built

I have much to say on this topic and it will probably come across as bitter and negative. I've tried wearing the rose-colored glasses for many years and that only served to disappoint more with every new disaster WDI had released since 1996. As a matter of fact my negativity and disgust motivated me to leave WDI, Universal Creative and Landmark to start an independent entertainment design firm along with my business partner and best friend. That was the smartest decision we ever made. Just like you, we have been pretty successfull so far. That success came mostly by doing things opposite from how WDI currently does business. So hopefully everyone can forgive me for the negative tone but so far it has served me well and caused me to see things as they are, not as I'd like them to be.

WDI management, just like most companies in the U.S., is staffed by mostly unqualified, inept and inadequate employees that landed their positions because of one or more of the following reasons: making it through the highly bureaucratic HR department because they did well in college and know how to say all the right things; being highly adept at self-promotion with no substance; being willing to perform certain "personal favors" for promotion; nepotism and favoritism from the Eisner years and a host of other non-talent based reasons. I certainly don't know every employee at WDI but based on the projects we have worked with them on recently I can tell you that the aptitude and facility we used to expect and take for granted is now very difficult to find. There is a common mistaken belief that WDI is staffed with the best in the world - that simply is not true anymore.

There are exceptions but unfortunately these people don't generally know how, or are not willing, to do what it takes to move up into positions of authority. What usually happens is their managers will take credit for the work of the talented and then not know how to implement the ideas properly. This has been true throughout history and can be seen if you study the history of flight and who really invented the aeroplane, the history of Edison versus Tesla etc. In all these cases the ones that got credit were mostly good at self-promotion and aggrandizement. Such is the case with today's WDI management. I believe the abysmal quality we have been seeing in the last 15 years is mostly due to this.

We have always had examples of this issue but it has become rampant in the past decade or so. I've witnessed it personally and through the eyes of my best friend and business partner as well. Coming from him it is even more disturbing because he was hired at WDI, tutered and mentored by the guys that esentially invented this industry: Ward Kimball, John Hench, Marc Davis etc. While I worked with these guys, just as you have, I would venture to say very few were extensively trained directly by them as much as my business partner was. If you think I'm negative you should hear him talk. According to him just about every product that has been churned out by WDI for WDW in the last 15 years has epitomized an anti-Disney design philosophy. Once again there are a few exceptions that somehow made it through thankfully.

What is the solution to all of this? Executive leadership needs to recognize the problem, clean house and make a dramatic shift in design operations strategy and philosophy. The real problem is I don't see many in the executive leadership role that would be willing to do this. It needs to come from high up and they are too busy looking at their spreadsheets and expense accounts to care right now.

I hope the tide is turning as some claim. Unfortunately I don't see it yet.

 

[wdwmagic]

Very interesting insight. Thanks as always to everyone for your views and input - it's all great reading.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

I've given thought to moving the Tiki Room to the Polynesian Village as a dinner show myself. Two words: Tangaroa Terrace. Another three words to think about, too: Living Character Initiative. This thing would make money out the wazoo.

 

[Figment632]

I've given thought to moving the Tiki Room to the Polynesian Village as a dinner show myself. Two words: Tangaroa Terrace. Another three words to think about, too: Living Character Initiative. This thing would make money out the wazoo.

This is a great idea!

 

[jt04]

I have much to say on this topic and it will probably come across as bitter and negative. I've tried wearing the rose-colored glasses for many years and that only served to disappoint more with every new disaster WDI had released since 1996. As a matter of fact my negativity and disgust motivated me to leave WDI, Universal Creative and Landmark to start an independent entertainment design firm along with my business partner and best friend. That was the smartest decision we ever made. Just like you, we have been pretty successfull so far. That success came mostly by doing things opposite from how WDI currently does business. So hopefully everyone can forgive me for the negative tone but so far it has served me well and caused me to see things as they are, not as I'd like them to be.

WDI management, just like most companies in the U.S., is staffed by mostly unqualified, inept and inadequate employees that landed their positions because of one or more of the following reasons: making it through the highly bureaucratic HR department because they did well in college and know how to say all the right things; being highly adept at self-promotion with no substance; being willing to perform certain "personal favors" for promotion; nepotism and favoritism from the Eisner years and a host of other non-talent based reasons. I certainly don't know every employee at WDI but based on the projects we have worked with them on recently I can tell you that the aptitude and facility we used to expect and take for granted is now very difficult to find. There is a common mistaken belief that WDI is staffed with the best in the world - that simply is not true anymore.

There are exceptions but unfortunately these people don't generally know how, or are not willing, to do what it takes to move up into positions of authority. What usually happens is their managers will take credit for the work of the talented and then not know how to implement the ideas properly. This has been true throughout history and can be seen if you study the history of flight and who really invented the aeroplane, the history of Edison versus Tesla etc. In all these cases the ones that got credit were mostly good at self-promotion and aggrandizement. Such is the case with today's WDI management. I believe the abysmal quality we have been seeing in the last 15 years is mostly due to this.

We have always had examples of this issue but it has become rampant in the past decade or so. I've witnessed it personally and through the eyes of my best friend and business partner as well. Coming from him it is even more disturbing because he was hired at WDI, tutered and mentored by the guys that esentially invented this industry: Ward Kimball, John Hench, Marc Davis etc. While I worked with these guys, just as you have, I would venture to say very few were extensively trained directly by them as much as my business partner was. If you think I'm negative you should hear him talk. According to him just about every product that has been churned out by WDI for WDW in the last 15 years has epitomized an anti-Disney design philosophy. Once again there are a few exceptions that somehow made it through thankfully.

What is the solution to all of this? Executive leadership needs to recognize the problem, clean house and make a dramatic shift in design operations strategy and philosophy. The real problem is I don't see many in the executive leadership role that would be willing to do this. It needs to come from high up and they are too busy looking at their spreadsheets and expense accounts to care right now.

I hope the tide is turning as some claim. Unfortunately I don't see it yet.

I'm just going to throw in my 2 cents because there are some points that need to be made I think. There is no way a company the size of Disney can be turned around in all areas in a short period of time. I listed all my reasons for my optimism recently department by department. Projects from WDI are always going to take the longest time to work through the system and we are just now seeing that happen at DCA and now Hong Kong. Other positives are the Liberty Square refurbs at MK and the amazing and popular Pixar Place.

The Blue Sky Cellar shines with traditional Imagineering quality and I really think DCA will be the barometer as to if Iger/Lasseter are bringing WDI back to the standards we all expect. I'd venture to say, they are in every way. I'm not being an apologist. That is sincerely what I see happening.

Finally, I have to say something about those who call for Disney to "clean house". We saw this on this forum concerning TDO and the discusting glee of people when TWDC announced potential layoffs. People actually named names and couldn't wait each day to find out who had gotten the axe. And now you advocate WDI be cleaned out against all evidence that WDI is actually being turned around and the quality is returning. In fact, the more TWDC and Iger/Lasseter succeed the more desperate people are sounding. I know we live in challanging times, but to exploit those circumstances to call for the firing of people who probably are not the decision makers seems way over the top. You are talking about real people with real families and real responsibilities. Calling for people to be fired does sound bitter. Especially when it is based on such unsubstantiated assumptions. If the DCA makeover turns out to be of poor quality I will admit I was wrong and then I will share your point of view. I'm not worried about that happening at all.

PS- if you should be calling anybody out, it should be Universal's management. Between the new coaster and the delays to potterland, I think they are the ones who actually have a problem.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I've given thought to moving the Tiki Room to the Polynesian Village as a dinner show myself. Two words: Tangaroa Terrace. Another three words to think about, too: Living Character Initiative. This thing would make money out the wazoo.

Now were talkin!!! good name!

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

Thank you! I was blessed enough to be dubbed thusly by my former fellow Monorail Pilots.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I'm just going to throw in my 2 cents because there are some points that need to be made I think. There is no way a company the size of Disney can be turned around in all areas in a short period of time.

True. It will take time. I happen to be very bullish on the current WDI management team of Bruce Vaughn and Craig Russell. I've known them for years (and yes Bruce invested in Rivera) and loved working with each of them. They are not "inept" people. The timing isn't great with the economy, but it is what it is. One runs creative and the other runs the projects. Both love the product very much but know the environment they are in. Bruce ran R&D and thanks to his pushing has Bob Iger funding lots of development. Like it or not, the Lucky's, Remy's, Kim's and talking Trashcans came out of R&D. You add John Lassiter and Bob Weis popping in and fueling the flames and things are looking up. Craig is a great project manager, the kind that knows coming in under budget at the expense of the show is not a winning strategy. IMHO there is a very interesting moment to be seized at WDI with these two at the helm. Will they make changes beneath them?We'll have to wait and see.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Sorry about the Marketing line. It doesn't make much sense to the Disney fan, but it makes a whole lot of sense to the Halloween Horror Nights fan. And since the website has updated, it's been on the brain a bit.

No need to apologize! It's all part of the talk.

I think it is abundantly clear that the modern WDC guiding principle is:

"Adhere to the founding principles to as great an extent as possible up until [insert chosen business component] is compromised."

rather than:

"Adhere to the found principles first, even if at the expense of compromising [insert chosen business component]."

But hey, it could be worse. They could blow off the founding principles entirely.

That's true? But why did they blow this off when they were so unique, and so special, and PROFITable with the old way.


Is there really a change with this new TWDC (Sheriff?) in town?:lol:

I've given thought to moving the Tiki Room to the Polynesian Village as a dinner show myself. Two words: Tangaroa Terrace. Another three words to think about, too: Living Character Initiative. This thing would make money out the wazoo.

Huh! Interesting...I kinda edge away from charging for a beloved attraction, but the idea that the resorts have draws, too, is interesting.

 

[HMF]

Remember folks' Overall WDI is headed in a positive direction with Bruce and Craig.:animwink: