Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[ob1thx1138]

HD is now in your iPhone 4 so you always have a decent quality image capture option. Imagine how some people in the future will be capturing their entire lives in time lapse or video and wirelessly storing them in real time in some server.

This sounds like a good idea for a new future world attraction.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

Very good read...that is a very interesting look at the pavilions. While I like them, I can understand why the giant pools never came to fruition. After all this was still going to be a theme park and you do need to give yourself room for food, merch, etc. and it seems like those bodies of water took up a lot of precious space. I'm slightly torn about World Showcase. It seems that the pavilions designed there might not have been as grand as what we have now, and that it would have been somewhat cluttered. On the other hand, a few more countries (with attractions) would be nice.

If I would have to name that style of the design of Future World of 1978 I would call it the "Logan's Run-Style". The similarities are quite strong.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Very good read...that is a very interesting look at the pavilions. While I like them, I can understand why the giant pools never came to fruition. After all this was still going to be a theme park and you do need to give yourself room for food, merch, etc. and it seems like those bodies of water took up a lot of precious space. I'm slightly torn about World Showcase. It seems that the pavilions designed there might not have been as grand as what we have now, and that it would have been somewhat cluttered. On the other hand, a few more countries (with attractions) would be nice.

Trivia time..

Truth be told, the large lagoon in front of the Odyssey Restaurant is there because it is more or less a "Sink Hole" where they tried to pour foundation pilings and nothing would settle so they left it alone. Nothing can be built there.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Trivia time..

Truth be told, the large lagoon in front of the Odyssey Restaurant is there because it is more or less a "Sink Hole" where they tried to pour foundation pilings and nothing would settle so they left it alone. Nothing can be built there.

When you say the "large lagoon" are you referring to the entire body of water that stretches from Test Track to Imagination (and also Odyssey), or just the portion that occupies the area in front of Odyssey?

If it's the former, that's quite a large sinkhole!

 

[gljvd]

HD is now in your iPhone 4 so you always have a decent quality image capture option. Imagine how some people in the future will be capturing their entire lives in time lapse or video and wirelessly storing them in real time in some server.

the iphone 4 sensor and lense are low quality however. Even my hf11 has problems in dark or poorly lighted areas.

Its best to spend a few hundred on a dedicated camera

 

[wdwmagic]

HD is now in your iPhone 4 so you always have a decent quality image capture option. Imagine how some people in the future will be capturing their entire lives in time lapse or video and wirelessly storing them in real time in some server.

It is hard to believe how things will be in the not-so-distant future in terms of image capture! Mind boggling.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Trivia time..

Truth be told, the large lagoon in front of the Odyssey Restaurant is there because it is more or less a "Sink Hole" where they tried to pour foundation pilings and nothing would settle so they left it alone. Nothing can be built there.

Good to know. Thanks for the info.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

the iphone 4 sensor and lense are low quality however. Even my hf11 has problems in dark or poorly lighted areas.

Its best to spend a few hundred on a dedicated camera

Leica D-Lux 5. (or the Lumix version.)

I love this camera and it beats many others I've owed as the lens eats light for breakfast.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Al Weiss leaving

After being with Disney 39 years, Al is gone as head of TP operations worldwide. They say he won't be replaced and that there is a new structure of management being implemented, but who knows? The Studio is going through layoffs right now, so maybe there is a "belt tightening" at all levels. It's not like he failed and business is down (maybe Kevin Yee's article on the black tarp in BTM did it). Thoughts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Weiss

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Jack Wrather

Here's an article on the founder of the Disneyland Hotel.

http://www.yesterland.com/wrather.html

As a kid, I loved the Disneyland Hotel but thought even at 9 that it fell so far short of the imagination of Disneyland itself. It was so obvious and regrettable that Disney didn't own it, it was average and cheap and you sensed that. I used to imagine what I would do if I had it and it was Disney. Today there are successful efforts to add Disney themed elements and they work fine in themselves, but it really needs to be redone from the ground up to give you that Disney feel you get in something that immerses you 100% in another world. Grand Californian is "total" like that (So is the Contemporary, Poly, Wilderness, etc). The thematic immersion is what makes these places truly magical and worth the higher cost, not just the themed pool or naming the sandwiches.

I know Wrather is becoming a Disney Legend, but had Walt been able to buy him out sooner, I wonder what Walt Disney would have done across the street from his park? 2 boring High rises and a generic pool? I doubt it. You probably would have had something akin to the Contemporary with his beloved monorail running through it. I think the Madonna Inn (http://www.madonnainn.com/) was more "Disney" back then than anything Wrather did. I know the DH is credited with inventing the family convention business, and supposedly pioneered many formatic things, but I'm not convinced yet. Resorts date back to the 1890's and supporting attractions with themed amenities began long ago and did it better. We know Jack Wrather was the right guy at the right time as Walt was out of cash, but his contribution (in my opinion) has been colorized by nostalgia (http://www.magicalhotel.com/) rather than creative quality, and because of "business", never lived up to it's potential, being a missed Disney opportunity.

Why isn't the old head of ABC a legend? (maybe he is!) He made the Mickey Mouse Club possible.

End of rant.

 

[RunnerEd]

After being with Disney 39 years, Al is gone as head of TP operations worldwide. They say he won't be replaced and that there is a new structure of management being implemented, but who knows? The Studio is going through layoffs right now, so maybe there is a "belt tightening" at all levels. It's not like he failed and business is down (maybe Kevin Yee's article on the black tarp in BTM did it). Thoughts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Weiss

From reading the rumors/reporting, Al will not be replaced and the division will be restructured. However, if Al's position were to remain active, I would love to see an Imagineer as head of Parks and Resorts; someone like Tony Baxter or Marty Sklar immediately come to mind. The parks are their babies after all and I would love to see what would become of the parks if one of those guys actually ran the place. I probably wouldn't be able to afford to go as many times as I do but it would be incredible! Has this ever been tried and if not, how do you think it would work out, Eddie?

 

[HMF]

After being with Disney 39 years, Al is gone as head of TP operations worldwide. They say he won't be replaced and that there is a new structure of management being implemented, but who knows? The Studio is going through layoffs right now, so maybe there is a "belt tightening" at all levels. It's not like he failed and business is down (maybe Kevin Yee's article on the black tarp in BTM did it). Thoughts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Weiss

Wonderful News.:sohappy:

 

[MarkTwain]

Here's an article on the founder of the Disneyland Hotel.

http://www.yesterland.com/wrather.html

As a kid, I loved the Disneyland Hotel but thought even at 9 that it fell so far short of the imagination of Disneyland itself. It was so obvious and regrettable that Disney didn't own it, it was average and cheap and you sensed that. I used to imagine what I would do if I had it and it was Disney. Today there are successful efforts to add Disney themed elements and they work fine in themselves, but it really needs to be redone from the ground up to give you that Disney feel you get in something that immerses you 100% in another world. Grand Californian is "total" like that (So is the Contemporary, Poly, Wilderness, etc). The thematic immersion is what makes these places truly magical and worth the higher cost, not just the themed pool or naming the sandwiches.

I know Wrather is becoming a Disney Legend, but had Walt been able to buy him out sooner, I wonder what Walt Disney would have done across the street from his park? 2 boring High rises and a generic pool? I doubt it. You probably would have had something akin to the Contemporary with his beloved monorail running through it. I think the Madonna Inn (http://www.madonnainn.com/) was more "Disney" back then than anything Wrather did. I know the DH is credited with inventing the family convention business, and supposedly pioneered many formatic things, but I'm not convinced yet. Resorts date back to the 1890's and supporting attractions with themed amenities began long ago and did it better. We know Jack Wrather was the right guy at the right time as Walt was out of cash, but his contribution (in my opinion) has been colorized by nostalgia (http://www.magicalhotel.com/) rather than creative quality, and because of "business", never lived up to it's potential, being a missed Disney opportunity.

Why isn't the old head of ABC a legend? (maybe he is!) He made the Mickey Mouse Club possible.

End of rant.

If you posted an opinion like that on MiceChat, you'd be asking for it. :lol: Lots of people nostalgic about the hotel on that site. Anyway, interesting perspective, that's really never occurred to me before. It certainly is a fair argument that the Disneyland Hotel didn't/doesn't live up to Disney design standards. At this point, I think an interesting way to refurbish the resort (and might actually be what Disney is doing) would be to take advantage of the hotel's dated design. So you have a couple of 1950s towers... play off their 1950s-ness! Redo the gardens between the towers to be Polynesian gardens, with torches and Hawaiian gods statues straight from the Tiki craze. In each of the tower's lobbies, have midcentury retro furniture like this, orbit wall clocks, maybe even some black and white TVs playing footage from the Disneyland series here or there. Disney hasn't released many interior renderings yet, so hopefully they have something like this in mind.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

If you posted an opinion like that on MiceChat, you'd be asking for it. :lol: Lots of people nostalgic about the hotel on that site. Anyway, interesting perspective, that's really never occurred to me before. It certainly is a fair argument that the Disneyland Hotel didn't/doesn't live up to Disney design standards. At this point, I think an interesting way to refurbish the resort (and might actually be what Disney is doing) would be to take advantage of the hotel's dated design. So you have a couple of 1950s towers... play off their 1950s-ness! Redo the gardens between the towers to be Polynesian gardens, with torches and Hawaiian gods statues straight from the Tiki craze. In each of the tower's lobbies, have midcentury retro furniture like this, orbit wall clocks, maybe even some black and white TVs playing footage from the Disneyland series here or there. Disney hasn't released many interior renderings yet, so hopefully they have something like this in mind.

Theres a reason this thread is not on Micechat.:lol: I have a nostalgic feel for the place too having stayed there as a kid and lunching with Mom watching the monorail. Lots of treasured memories, but one being disappointed in the lack of Disney imagination. Especially after WDW opened and you saw what being a Disney hotel means. The themed Mini Golf was the best and most Disney thing there. The goal back then was to get someone to do something fast and that was it. I wished they had later come back and added something more interesting like the Mission Inn http://www.missioninn.com/. I spent lots of time at the hotel and from a design point of view it was a mixed bag of average stuff. http://davelandweb.com/disneylandhotel/

Agree that in lieu of tearing it down, leveraging its nostalgia is one way to go and guests like that. Seems smart but depends on the execution. So if you are gonna embrace that, then make that retro theme your "immersive world", be serious about it, and do it all the way. The Tiki bar thing seems a great step into a more Disney type experience.

 

[flavious27]

Here's an article on the founder of the Disneyland Hotel.

http://www.yesterland.com/wrather.html

As a kid, I loved the Disneyland Hotel but thought even at 9 that it fell so far short of the imagination of Disneyland itself. It was so obvious and regrettable that Disney didn't own it, it was average and cheap and you sensed that. I used to imagine what I would do if I had it and it was Disney. Today there are successful efforts to add Disney themed elements and they work fine in themselves, but it really needs to be redone from the ground up to give you that Disney feel you get in something that immerses you 100% in another world. Grand Californian is "total" like that (So is the Contemporary, Poly, Wilderness, etc). The thematic immersion is what makes these places truly magical and worth the higher cost, not just the themed pool or naming the sandwiches.

I know Wrather is becoming a Disney Legend, but had Walt been able to buy him out sooner, I wonder what Walt Disney would have done across the street from his park? 2 boring High rises and a generic pool? I doubt it. You probably would have had something akin to the Contemporary with his beloved monorail running through it. I think the Madonna Inn (http://www.madonnainn.com/) was more "Disney" back then than anything Wrather did. I know the DH is credited with inventing the family convention business, and supposedly pioneered many formatic things, but I'm not convinced yet. Resorts date back to the 1890's and supporting attractions with themed amenities began long ago and did it better. We know Jack Wrather was the right guy at the right time as Walt was out of cash, but his contribution (in my opinion) has been colorized by nostalgia (http://www.magicalhotel.com/) rather than creative quality, and because of "business", never lived up to it's potential, being a missed Disney opportunity.

Why isn't the old head of ABC a legend? (maybe he is!) He made the Mickey Mouse Club possible.

End of rant.

Want to know how disney doesn't like the exterior look of the disneyland hotel in cali, it is the only disney hotel that does not have either an aerial or exterior shot of the hotel.

As much as disney tries to upgrade the exterior look of the towers, you can't hide that the hotel is one of the boring hotels built in the 60's without some serious construction. They need to connect the hotel buildings together and then redo the outside so that it looks modern, kind of like how the comcast center looks similar to a single pane of glass.

 

[RandySavage]

My opinion: Any attempt to make the DL Hotel look modern (which is what is happening to the towers right now and has happened in the past) is just going to make it look more awkward & dated (i.e. worse) as time moves on. I understand from a business perspective why Disney won't close down the hotel for 18-24 months to build a fitting flagship resort from scratch, but it's a shame the complex will remain ugly, boring and mediocre for many years to come.

Even worse is the Paradise Pier Hotel (a commie-block of a building with its windowless sides) because it looms over the ostensibly victorian Paradise Pier and is fully visible from within the park - obliterating any sense/illusion that one is in a turn-of-the-century boardwalk. I noticed the new Paradise Garden colors play off the hotel, which is a bit of a salve, but can't erase the fact that the building is among the ugliest, cheapest designs in hotel history - it's as bad as any 1970s Jersey Turnpike motor lodge (with some yellow waves slapped on the roof to make it "themed"), as is the DL hotel.

The one bright note among DLR's hotels is that when I first experienced the Grand Californian two months ago, I found it to be much more impressive in than it looked in photographs - mainly because the high quality natural materials (stones and timbers) that don't come through in pics.

There are many incredible historical hotels & resorts, like the Mission Inn, that could inspire a fitting Disneyland Hotel: The Biltmore, The Royal Hawaiian, The Quinta Real in Monterrey, The Del Monte, The Broadmoor, The La Fonta... all beauties that Disney could bend into its own flagship hotel, just as it took the Del Coronado and turned it into the Grand Floridian or the Old Faithful Inn into the Wilderness Lodge.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Reading Al Lutz's columns for the past three or four years, it seems like they were pretty close to doing a complete tear-down of the DL Hotel. Like you said, they got cold feet. Maybe they were even right: DLR will be crazy busy over the next couple years with Carsland opening and the completion of the DCA makeover. I can see how they really wanted all the hotel rooms possible while DCA is becoming a more worthy sequel to DL.

A hotel refurb is only good for what, 10-20 years? I could easily see them tearing down PPH in 5-10 years (it is by far #3 out of 3 hotels at DLR) and rebuilding a hotel with more rooms than are there now... which will make it easier to completely re-imagine the DL Hotel site when the new PPH is open. Not that that is a guarantee by any means, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

There are many incredible historical hotels & resorts, like the Mission Inn, that could inspire a fitting Disneyland Hotel: The Biltmore, The Royal Hawaiian, The Quinta Real in Monterrey, The Del Monte, The Broadmoor, The La Fonta... all beauties that Disney could bend into its own flagship hotel, just as it took the Del Coronado and turned it into the Grand Floridian or the Old Faithful Inn into the Wilderness Lodge.

Yes. Exactly.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Want to know how disney doesn't like the exterior look of the disneyland hotel in cali, it is the only disney hotel that does not have either an aerial or exterior shot of the hotel.

As much as disney tries to upgrade the exterior look of the towers, you can't hide that the hotel is one of the boring hotels built in the 60's without some serious construction. They need to connect the hotel buildings together and then redo the outside so that it looks modern, kind of like how the comcast center looks similar to a single pane of glass.

But would new towers that look like this be enough of an update for the DL Hotel? Paradise Pier seems to be a natural fit for a Del Coronado-style building; that's simple enough to see. Do you go with another Victorian building for the DL Hotel? How do you properly recreate the entire Disneyland idea in a single building/complex? Or should you even try to? The meta-theme instead of a time/place theme has not yielded impressive results so far. The floor area ratio would have to be high to meet demand... I feel like you're almost locked into the tower setup. It will be a very interesting design challenge when it's time for a new DL Hotel!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Reading Al Lutz's columns for the past three or four years, it seems like they were pretty close to doing a complete tear-down of the DL Hotel. Like you said, they got cold feet. Maybe they were even right: DLR will be crazy busy over the next couple years with Carsland opening and the completion of the DCA makeover. I can see how they really wanted all the hotel rooms possible while DCA is becoming a more worthy sequel to DL.

A hotel refurb is only good for what, 10-20 years? I could easily see them tearing down PPH in 5-10 years (it is by far #3 out of 3 hotels at DLR) and rebuilding a hotel with more rooms than are there now... which will make it easier to completely re-imagine the DL Hotel site when the new PPH is open. Not that that is a guarantee by any means, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

If they pull off "DCA as a destination that stands on it's own" gamble, there will truly be an overnight reason to stay, perhaps even longer. Then they will be more likely to invest to completely redo the other hotels and complete the picture.