Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Nemo14]

I just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading this thread, even though I have nothing to add to it. I love hearing all the background stories and behind-the-scenes information - this site has come a long way since the arguments about the demise of the Epcot Wand!

Thanks to all of you!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading this thread, even though I have nothing to add to it. I love hearing all the background stories and behind-the-scenes information - this site has come a long way since the arguments about the demise of the Epcot Wand!

Thanks to all of you!

I'm sure you have lots to add, hope to hear more from you.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

I'm not sure if there are any TDS fans out there...

I'm not sure if there are any non-TDS fans out there! :lol:

 

[ScoutN]

I'm sure you have lots to add, hope to hear more from you.

I feel in the same boat as him. I am but 21 years of age and in school. Most of the discussion is only stuff I have heard stories of here and there before my time.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I feel in the same boat as him. I am but 21 years of age and in school. Most of the discussion is only stuff I have heard stories of here and there before my time.

One of the reasons I'm doing this as when I was a kid there was no place to talk with even an Ex Imagineer. If you wanted to have that as a career goal there were no classes or anything. How do you learn about them park design or discuss it in an intelligent way? I ended up doing this as a means for anyone to have a forum to learn about the challenges that go on inside WDI or ask about the design and so forth. So don't feel like you can't contribute because it was before your time or ask questions. Feel free and we'd like to hear from you more often. :animwink:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I'm not sure if there are any non-TDS fans out there! :lol:

True. I'm one too.. just jealous...

 

[ScoutN]

One of the reasons I'm doing this as when I was a kid there was no place to talk with even an Ex Imagineer. If you wanted to have that as a career goal there were no classes or anything. How do you learn about them park design or discuss it in an intelligent way? I ended up doing this as a means for anyone to have a forum to learn about the challenges that go on inside WDI or ask about the design and so forth. So don't feel like you can't contribute because it was before your time or ask questions. Feel free and we'd like to hear from you more often. :animwink:

Well it is amazing to know someone held in as high as regards as you are looks out for the next generation. I am in Nuke Engineering minor Mechanical at ODU currently with aspirations of working for NASA (hence half the stuff on my username). As much of a dream working for Disney would be I doubt they utilize too many Nukes around the property.

 

[Nemo14]

I'm sure you have lots to add, hope to hear more from you.

No, I am admittedly intiminated by the depth of knowledge of many of the posters here. I'm just a Disney fan, old enough to remember Walt himself, the original Mickey Mouse Club, and the opening of Disneyland, and young enough to appreciate the changes since then.

 

[CountryBearFan]

If I may add to this...

The interesting thing about Bob Iger is that he was the perfect antidote to Eisner's personality driven management style. As good as he was (and he was the best), Michael Eisner had evolved into a figurehead that was beginning to symbolize what was going wrong with the company. His point of view was evidenced by some bad hires like Michael Ovitz. There are times when you need someone who can just bring the right team of people together in a time of anarchy. People of that time were looking for some stability and Bob Iger was the right flavor change. The first thing he did was prove to us shareholders that he did not consider himself to be a creative genius, but rather to show that he recognized the need for the company to have one. So we basically gave the company to Steve Jobs in exchange for Pixar and John Lasseter. Wisdom and humility seldom go hand-in-hand, but as far as a leadership decision I believe he demonstrated both the elusive qualities. I would not consider Bob to have the same charisma as Steve Jobs or John Lasseter, but like Ed Sullivan he hosts a good show and knows how to point the spotlight at the right people. I'm just sayin.

I completely agree with that analogy, Mr. Sotto. Very well stated.

It really annoys me when people speaking from experience such as yourself get chided at by certain members when you speak the truth about people like Iger and Eisner. They just don't appreciate the fact that someone like you does know what they're talking about.

They seem to overlook the fact that Eisner commited countless crimes as the CEO of Disney after Frank Wells died, including eliminating 2D animation, alienating many relationships (including the ones with Pixar, Lucasfilm, Amblin, Jim Henson's family, Roy E. Disney, Stanley Gold, Jeffrey Katzenberg, etc.), putting the wrong people in high positions at the company (putting Paul Pressler and Cynthia Harriss in charge of the parks, filling the board of directors with Eisner-loyalists, etc.) and cutting one too many corners, among other things.

The company's future is indeed far more promising these days with Iger, Lassetter, Jobs, Staggs, etc. in charge of the company. They still have a lot of work to do to clean up the messes Eisner left behind, but despite what some naysayers say, they're heading in the right direction overall.

And the fact that we're still recovering from a huge economic recession only makes things even harder, so Iger and his new team deserve the credit for doing what they can do during these troubled times.

 

[KevinYee]

I'm feeling woefully under-prepared for my Paris trip this fall (the first in five years). They ditched the pirate ship walkthrough?!

 

[HMF]

I'm not sure if there are any TDS fans out there, but if you are like me, you never get tired of looking at that smoldering Caldera. Alain Littaye has done something about that by creating a TDS HD Wallpaper App for your iPhone or iPad. If you have read his blog "Disney and More", it occasionally features his photography which is always stunning. He did the Hi Rez imagery here and it's equally good. Worth checking out and has cool night shots too.

My only quibble is that they keep saying that TDS is "the most beautiful theme park in the world". Where is Alain's French pride? (He cowrote the book on DLP)

Alain...just between us...
DLP is the fairest of them all!

Decide for yourself. Well done App.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tds-wallpapers-hd/id441544704?mt=8

Don't get too full of yourself.:animwink: LOL!

 

[MarkTwain]

Hey Eddie, not to be a nuisance, but I had a question a few pages that you never answered but I was very curious about the answer to. I completely understand if you don't want to answer, but I thought I'd repost it again just in case you missed it. Thanks

You mean this one? No offense but I always found that idea laughable... the idea that just because a building's exterior is shaped like Mickey Mouse, it becomes "Disney" seemed very strange to me. I much prefer Disney's current style of theming after places.


Eddie, that reminds me of something I've been thinking about for a long time. I remembering reading about how during the EuroDisney project, Eisner brought in world-famous modern and postmodern architects to come up with hotel designs for the resort - Rem Koolhaas, Robert Venturi, Jean Nouvel, and others were involved. Disneyandmore shows several of the designs, but I think I remember reading about even more. Anyway, most of the hotels seemed to be like contemporary modern and postmodern buildings, but with integrated Disney motifs. I always thought it was strange that despite being the greatest architectural thinkers of our time, these figures just didn't "get" Disney design, i.e. what we think of as Imagineering. Or perhaps they thought they were making some architectural statement, were trying to bring Disney into modern architectural age, etc. What do you think of this kind of design, Eddie? Is this kind of thing appropriate for a Disney resort, or were these guys way off the mark?

Another example of this might be comparing the Gehry-deigned Disney Village at Paris, vs. the remains of the Disney Village (now Downtown Disney Marketplace) at Orlando. To me the quaint, unified look of Orlando's Village is far more successful than Gehry's modernized "statement"... but that's just my opinion.
Some modern architects have been shown to get Disney design, though - the Boardwalk was designed by Robert Stern, and the Wilderness Lodge by Peter Dominick, and I would consider both as masterpieces of Imagineering.





I've always thought it surprising that DHS didn't get its own hotel - it's the only WDW park without one! And to me its theme of Hollywood glitz and glamor would match perfectly for a deluxe hotel of its own.

I've always thought that the huge "Christmas tree lot" at Disneyland would be a great spot for a streamline-moderne Hollywood-themed hotel, with all the art deco trimmings. Maybe have a more old-fashioned Hollywood side facing DCA's Hollywood backlot, and have the more streamline modern side facing Disneyland's Tomorrowland. That way the hotel could offer views of both parks. Maybe the hotel could even act as a grand entry for the resort on Harbor Blvd, with a lobby you could pass through to get between the Esplanade and "outside world," kind of like the Disneyland Hotel at Paris.

EDIT: Kind of like the Hollywood Hotel at Tokyo Disneyland? :lol:

 

[wedenterprises]

I love TDS. I was able to scratch it off my bucket list in a crazy way.

Many years ago, I was visiting my girlfriend at the time in Thailand and Cambodia and had a layover on the way home in Tokyo. I had a 6 hour stop and had kept exactly the amount of money I would need for TDS and the bus from the airport. After that I was flat broke.

Keep in mind I had never stepped foot in Japan in my life, it was off the plane onto a bus and straight to TDS for a crazy 4 hours of overload. (more on that in a sec).

when my 4 hours was up I had been able to see most attractions once except for stormrider because I couldn't get enough of 20k under the sea and skipped out. hehe.

4 hours was not enough (obviously) and it made for a very tiring, jet lagged, overwhelming, anxiety filled trip.

As I was waiting for the bus back to the airport I suddenly realized that the bus fare wasn't "return" but "one way". I was flat broke and only had my maxed out credit card on me which I thought was also useless because I couldn't buy a ticket for the bus at the hotel, only the airport. I'll never forget the feeling thinking wow I'm ACTUALLY stuck in Japan.

thankfully a cast member explained to me in my panic that I could buy the ticket once I got to the airport. phew! (upon returning home I realized I had $3 left on my credit card after that bus ride!! young and stupid.)

In hindsight it was probably a stupid idea to try to go but I had such a blast and it was obviously very memorable. It is such a beautiful park. I also have a funny picture with a Japanese girl that rode the Indy coaster with me and badly wanted her picture taken with me after. Maybe she liked my Oilers hat, or maybe she thought I was famous? haha.

Getting back to the overwhelming detail of TDS, I have to ask Eddie what WDI and imagineers think of that place. Is it revered as a sort of "holy grail"? Or is it seen more as evidence of what WDI is capable of with money?

IMO, the detail - especially in the New York area - is almost too much. But I probably owe that to my jet lag haha.

Anyways I'd love to hear what Imagineers think of TDS.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hey Eddie, not to be a nuisance, but I had a question a few pages that you never answered but I was very curious about the answer to. I completely understand if you don't want to answer, but I thought I'd repost it again just in case you missed it. Thanks

What do I think of the name architects doing the DLP hotels? It's my personal belief that when you come for a "Disney" experience that's what you're paying for. The "real world" already has Geary's Bilbao and so forth. It was a cheap way out to give those "names" low budgets and try and get a cheap masterpiece. It didn't work. Give me the Wilderness Lodge or the Poly anytime. Stern is the best of them but even then it's sometimes overscaled and lacks emotion.

Many famous Architects seem to love architecture more than the people they are designing for. Disney is escape and emotion, you don't go home whistling the buildings.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I completely agree with that analogy, Mr. Sotto. Very well stated.

It really annoys me when people speaking from experience such as yourself get chided at by certain members when you speak the truth about people like Iger and Eisner. They just don't appreciate the fact that someone like you does know what they're talking about.

They seem to overlook the fact that Eisner commited countless crimes as the CEO of Disney after Frank Wells died, including eliminating 2D animation, alienating many relationships (including the ones with Pixar, Lucasfilm, Amblin, Jim Henson's family, Roy E. Disney, Stanley Gold, Jeffrey Katzenberg, etc.), putting the wrong people in high positions at the company (putting Paul Pressler and Cynthia Harriss in charge of the parks, filling the board of directors with Eisner-loyalists, etc.) and cutting one too many corners, among other things.

The company's future is indeed far more promising these days with Iger, Lassetter, Jobs, Staggs, etc. in charge of the company. They still have a lot of work to do to clean up the messes Eisner left behind, but despite what some naysayers say, they're heading in the right direction overall.

And the fact that we're still recovering from a huge economic recession only makes things even harder, so Iger and his new team deserve the credit for doing what they can do during these troubled times.

Well said.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I'm feeling woefully under-prepared for my Paris trip this fall (the first in five years). They ditched the pirate ship walkthrough?!

the ship rotted

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Don't get too full of yourself.:animwink: LOL!

The park falling apart keeps you humble, I'm just in denial.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I love TDS. I was able to scratch it off my bucket list in a crazy way.

Many years ago, I was visiting my girlfriend at the time in Thailand and Cambodia and had a layover on the way home in Tokyo. I had a 6 hour stop and had kept exactly the amount of money I would need for TDS and the bus from the airport. After that I was flat broke.

Keep in mind I had never stepped foot in Japan in my life, it was off the plane onto a bus and straight to TDS for a crazy 4 hours of overload. (more on that in a sec).

when my 4 hours was up I had been able to see most attractions once except for stormrider because I couldn't get enough of 20k under the sea and skipped out. hehe.

4 hours was not enough (obviously) and it made for a very tiring, jet lagged, overwhelming, anxiety filled trip.

As I was waiting for the bus back to the airport I suddenly realized that the bus fare wasn't "return" but "one way". I was flat broke and only had my maxed out credit card on me which I thought was also useless because I couldn't buy a ticket for the bus at the hotel, only the airport. I'll never forget the feeling thinking wow I'm ACTUALLY stuck in Japan.

thankfully a cast member explained to me in my panic that I could buy the ticket once I got to the airport. phew! (upon returning home I realized I had $3 left on my credit card after that bus ride!! young and stupid.)

In hindsight it was probably a stupid idea to try to go but I had such a blast and it was obviously very memorable. It is such a beautiful park. I also have a funny picture with a Japanese girl that rode the Indy coaster with me and badly wanted her picture taken with me after. Maybe she liked my Oilers hat, or maybe she thought I was famous? haha.

Getting back to the overwhelming detail of TDS, I have to ask Eddie what WDI and imagineers think of that place. Is it revered as a sort of "holy grail"? Or is it seen more as evidence of what WDI is capable of with money?

IMO, the detail - especially in the New York area - is almost too much. But I probably owe that to my jet lag haha.

Anyways I'd love to hear what Imagineers think of TDS.

Great story.

TDS set out as it's goal to top DLP and in the level of detail I think it clearly does. The volcano at night is the perfect "castle". The Elevated train ride from DLP's 1920's Main Street surfaced there too! OLC/WDI went beyond with that park and I doubt any will ever reach it's benchmark of detail and quality. They also did the "Hotel inside the park" trick right and DLP blew the scale. So there are lots of great elements and iconography at TDS.

The thing that stood out to me was that it felt emotionally vacant at times. The only way I can explain it is to say that it felt like I was on this amazing backlot of a movie studio, but had not seen the movies that were shot there. I didn't relate to the spaces aspirationally. Being more full scale with wide walkways took some of the charm away as well, but that is true of TDL too. The SS Columbia is a stunning icon with no payoff, stuff like that bothers me. So I loved the escape that some of the placemaking delivered, but didn't care about the stories (exception would be the Vulcanian Caldera, 20K etc. but the ride was dull). The difference in a MK is that the environments in many ways are 3D versions or an extension of a story you already care about. TDS had some of that, but to me was not as magical or lacked heart. Kind of a love child of World Showcase and the MK. All told, stunningly beautiful and a new level of wow. I only visited once, but that was my impression.

I doubt most would agree with me, most Imagineers love it with few if any crits, but that's my take on a beautiful place. "A plus", but something was missing in the soul department.

 

[KevinYee]

The only way I can explain it is to say that it felt like I was on this amazing backlot of a movie studio, but had not seen the movies that were shot there. I didn't relate to the spaces aspirationally.

Amazingly dead-on! (Well, for parts of the park like the Columbia). I thought the volcano was amazing ... I could live there, not least because the gyoza cart is in there... and I dearly loved David's Mermaid Lagoon. But I get what you're saying about the "America" themed lands (and the hyperion area behind the volcano).

 

[ChrisFL]

Great story.

TDS set out as it's goal to top DLP and in the level of detail I think it clearly does. The volcano at night is the perfect "castle". The Elevated train ride from DLP's 1920's Main Street surfaced there too! OLC/WDI went beyond with that park and I doubt any will ever reach it's benchmark of detail and quality. They also did the "Hotel inside the park" trick right and DLP blew the scale. So there are lots of great elements and iconography at TDS.

The thing that stood out to me was that it felt emotionally vacant at times. The only way I can explain it is to say that it felt like I was on this amazing backlot of a movie studio, but had not seen the movies that were shot there. I didn't relate to the spaces aspirationally. Being more full scale with wide walkways took some of the charm away as well, but that is true of TDL too. The SS Columbia is a stunning icon with no payoff, stuff like that bothers me. So I loved the escape that some of the placemaking delivered, but didn't care about the stories (exception would be the Vulcanian Caldera, 20K etc. but the ride was dull). The difference in a MK is that the environments in many ways are 3D versions or an extension of a story you already care about. TDS had some of that, but to me was not as magical or lacked heart. Kind of a love child of World Showcase and the MK. All told, stunningly beautiful and a new level of wow. I only visited once, but that was my impression.

I doubt most would agree with me, most Imagineers love it with few if any crits, but that's my take on a beautiful place. "A plus", but something was missing in the soul department.

I think I will take this up...I visited TDS once and kinda agree with you, however I think I know why.

TDS has great themed lands, but in general, the CM's in each land are still Japanese and don't always "fit" what we expect of the land the way we do in World Showcase for example. The Italian section of the park is great, except that very few Italians are there. The same with the New York section, etc. I like the World Showcase because each country is filled with actual people from each country, and that authenticity IMO is one of the very few criticisms I have of TDS.

This could also be greatly exaggerated by us westerners who aren't quite as comfortable culturally with the CM's there vs. in the U.S. (despite the fact that CM's and the Japanese people in general that I spoke to, are some of the kindest, nicest people I've ever met)

As far as the other areas, such as Fortress Explorations, unlike actual ride or show attractions with a pre-show, the story isn't easily defined, its created as you walk through it. I thought it was brilliant, but I could see how some people would have trouble relating to it.