Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[HBG2]

While I throughly enjoyed reading both of your thoughts on the Haunted Mansion, I have to ask that the back and forth stay within one thread if you don't mind. The discussion is great...but I don't want this thread, which is filled with many different topics, to just materialize into the same conversation going on elsewhere.

I agree completely. This started out with me wanting to get Eddie's take on the new queue, but I don't want it hijacked and turned into another HM discussion thread.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

I figured the crowd here would be a little better suited to this kind of "how many fairies...?" argument than the general audience in the photo thread. :shrug: :lol:

 

[flavious27]

I look at the new queue as an evolution in the process of how Disney engages guests into the attractions. Any 1.0 or beta will need to be improved upon, which Disney will do. As much as it pains me to use the not a museum quote with attractions, all attractions do need to be improved and enhanced. It just matters how true those improvements stay true to the nature of the ride.

Disney has succeed and failed in their approach when enhancing attractions. I believe it is universally accepted that UNM was a failure and detriment to the nature of tiki, though any tikihead will acknowledge that a refresh was needed. The revamp of SM maintains the fun and theme of the original, while adding a better experience. The subtle additions to It's a Small World do not detract much from the attraction, unless you are looking for the changes. Having elements of the movies added to POTC makes the attraction relevant to the newest generation of Disney guests.

Any money and time spent to improve WDW and its attractions will be better for us, and any changes can be tweaked.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Moderation

I would not have let this go on this long if I thought it was not something worth discussing. HBG2 has some interesting insights on this case study, but I can see how it can become all about HM. To me, it's all about what happens to the experience as a whole when you "enhance" it. Feel free to move the discussion back, or keep chatting on it. I think we were talking about "Micktorian" architecture?

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I would not have let this go on this long if I thought it was not something worth discussing. HBG2 has some interesting insights on this case study, but I can see how it can become all about HM. To me, it's all about what happens to the experience as a whole when you "enhance" it. Feel free to move the discussion back, or keep chatting on it. I think we were talking about "Micktorian" architecture?

I just know that these two both have very good points and can definitely have a spirited conversation about it if given the opportunity (as displayed in the HM thread). I just didn't want the thread to get lost by accident with their discussion since they both are passionate about their points. Like I said though, they gave an excellent read in both directions about what they think may or may not be going on within the walls of the mansion.

 

[flavious27]

I would not have let this go on this long if I thought it was not something worth discussing. HBG2 has some interesting insights on this case study, but I can see how it can become all about HM. To me, it's all about what happens to the experience as a whole when you "enhance" it. Feel free to move the discussion back, or keep chatting on it. I think we were talking about "Micktorian" architecture?

Well Eddie if you were still with wdi and were assigned to a ttc renovation, what approach would you take?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well Eddie if you were still with wdi and were assigned to a ttc renovation, what approach would you take?

That thread is a pretty good idea of what I was talking about in reference to "Micktorian" and trying to define the term, a Victorian aesthetic that intended to evoke feelings on not just a bygone era, but also of "Disney". People in the thread they wanted something "Disney" and many mentioned a Victorian-esque design.

 

[flavious27]

That thread is a pretty good idea of what I was talking about in reference to "Micktorian" and trying to define the term, a Victorian aesthetic that intended to evoke feelings on not just a bygone era, but also of "Disney". People in the thread they wanted something "Disney" and many mentioned a Victorian-esque design.

there has been love of placing a ttc modeled like the train station at dlhk.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

That thread is a pretty good idea of what I was talking about in reference to "Micktorian" and trying to define the term, a Victorian aesthetic that intended to evoke feelings on not just a bygone era, but also of "Disney". People in the thread they wanted something "Disney" and many mentioned a Victorian-esque design.

Being a veteran of Main Street, I do like victorian, but the TTC is pretty far from the MK so I think it should perhaps be a bit more neutral. I'd hate to dilute the first glimpse of entering the MK by wallpapering it up front. If the Grand Floridian wasn't already there, I'd be more open to it, but "Micktorian" just waters down the Main Street IMO. Perhaps it could go more 19th Century green iron or industrial revolution, Jules Verne styled, but not white enamel victorian. That may be enough of a difference to make it cool and Disney without cannibalizing MSUSA.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Being a veteran of Main Street, I do like victorian, but the TTC is pretty far from the MK so I think it should perhaps be a bit more neutral. I'd hate to dilute the first glimpse of entering the MK by wallpapering it up front. If the Grand Floridian wasn't already there, I'd be more open to it, but "Micktorian" just waters down the Main Street IMO. Perhaps it could go more 19th Century green iron or industrial revolution, Jules Verne styled, but not white enamel victorian. That may be enough of a difference to make it cool and Disney without cannibalizing MSUSA.

I really do not think the Transportation and Ticket Center needs to be themed to a time or place. Would it be so wrong for it be what it is and still work as a place for embarking on a fantastic voyage?

But my thoughts on the Transportation and Ticket Center revolve more around the transportation aspect, and that may very well be totally off base. I have only ever used a ticket booth at Walt Disney World twice: the first time because I drove all night so my little brother and I could be at the Magic Kingdom for park opening and the Shades of Green ticket office opened later, and the second to pick up my new Annual Pass.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I really do not think the Transportation and Ticket Center needs to be themed to a time or place. Would it be so wrong for it be what it is and still work as a place for embarking on a fantastic voyage?

But my thoughts on the Transportation and Ticket Center revolve more around the transportation aspect, and that may very well be totally off base. I have only ever used a ticket booth at Walt Disney World twice: the first time because I drove all night so my little brother and I could be at the Magic Kingdom for park opening and the Shades of Green ticket office opened later, and the second to pick up my new Annual Pass.

I kind of agree with you here. I think that since the TTC can really lead to a number of different thematic places (and in itself has somewhat different thematic forms of transportation) that it would somewhat be an injustice to make it fit one specific time or place. With access to 3 resorts and 2 parks that are all incredibly diverse I think that having just a nicer looking transportation hub would be a good enough fix for this location.

 

[flavious27]

I kind of agree with you here. I think that since the TTC can really lead to a number of different thematic places (and in itself has somewhat different thematic forms of transportation) that it would somewhat be an injustice to make it fit one specific time or place. With access to 3 resorts and 2 parks that are all incredibly diverse I think that having just a nicer looking transportation hub would be a good enough fix for this location.

I agree, the TTC does not need to be bland to just blend in but it should not clash with the other theme around seven seas lagoon or bay lake. It should be designed with the expectation of outlasting the current styles of architecture, as to not looked aged after a couple of decades.

Personally I like the look of the THSR Hsinchu Station, and that elements of it can be used as a new ttc. The sail covering most of the station could be fitted with solar cells to power the ttc and hopefully some of the monorail lines it services. Along with that, there would be the opportunity to buy merchandise for the weather outside without having to waste that time in the parks.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I agree, the TTC does not need to be bland to just blend in but it should not clash with the other theme around seven seas lagoon or bay lake. It should be designed with the expectation of outlasting the current styles of architecture, as to not looked aged after a couple of decades.

Personally I like the look of the THSR Hsinchu Station, and that elements of it can be used as a new ttc. The sail covering most of the station could be fitted with solar cells to power the ttc and hopefully some of the monorail lines it services. Along with that, there would be the opportunity to buy merchandise for the weather outside without having to waste that time in the parks.

Very pretty. All good looking ideas. So I was thinking of mentioning Santiago Calatrava and his buildings that are similarly organic in form for the reasons you state here, but then it occurred to me that it felt kind of "real world". Airports have that same kind of feel so if it was contemporary, then it would want to be super unique (a big show element inside of some kind?) so you don't feel like you are in a typical modern Airport or trans hub. I wonder how many functions of ticketing will fade away in the future as you get them in your phone, online, etc. I'd rather see the whole thing evolve away from process.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Very pretty. All good looking ideas. So I was thinking of mentioning Santiago Calatrava and his buildings that are similarly organic in form for the reasons you state here, but then it occurred to me that it felt kind of "real world". Airports have that same kind of feel so if it was contemporary, then it would want to be super unique (a big show element inside of some kind?) so you don't feel like you are in a typical modern Airport or trans hub. I wonder how many functions of ticketing will fade away in the future as you get them in your phone, online, etc. I'd rather see the whole thing evolve away from process.

Perhaps this is part of the NextGen experience that they are keeping fairly secretive? Since Tom Staggs said that room keys will ultimately sent ahead of time, that means park tickets will as well. Who knows what technology they might offer here as far as park media goes. We have heard a number of people mention wristbands, but perhaps scanning your cell phone or something else will be in the plans as well....airlines are already doing this so I can't imagine a theme park not exploring the idea.

 

[flavious27]

Very pretty. All good looking ideas. So I was thinking of mentioning Santiago Calatrava and his buildings that are similarly organic in form for the reasons you state here, but then it occurred to me that it felt kind of "real world". Airports have that same kind of feel so if it was contemporary, then it would want to be super unique (a big show element inside of some kind?) so you don't feel like you are in a typical modern Airport or trans hub. I wonder how many functions of ticketing will fade away in the future as you get them in your phone, online, etc. I'd rather see the whole thing evolve away from process.

I could see disney elements inside that could be modeled after transportation in disney films, how about a 3d sculpture of steamboat willie as a centerpiece?

I see the ticketing booths inside as more of a temporary feature unlike how they are now. The will still be needed in some form in the future, but they are not used as much as they were when the park was built. There are lots of opportunity for the ttc to be a welcome center.

 

[flavious27]

Perhaps this is part of the NextGen experience that they are keeping fairly secretive? Since Tom Staggs said that room keys will ultimately sent ahead of time, that means park tickets will as well. Who knows what technology they might offer here as far as park media goes. We have heard a number of people mention wristbands, but perhaps scanning your cell phone or something else will be in the plans as well....airlines are already doing this so I can't imagine a theme park not exploring the idea.

disney could implement nfc in the parks, though the only concern I would see if how well disney could support multiple types of systems. They could have nfc, rfid, standard tickets and swipe cards all at the same time. In addition to that, it would also matter how nfc would be used; would they design their own app or use google and apple's systems? Also, would they try to use an app that would show a barcode on the devices screen and scan that to enter the parks?

 

[Figment571]

I kind of agree with you here. I think that since the TTC can really lead to a number of different thematic places (and in itself has somewhat different thematic forms of transportation) that it would somewhat be an injustice to make it fit one specific time or place. With access to 3 resorts and 2 parks that are all incredibly diverse I think that having just a nicer looking transportation hub would be a good enough fix for this location.

Well I think that perhaps based on what you said, since each form and place is different why not create a central hub that leads to different themes that blend in the center yet become more distinct as your reach your desired from of transit?

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Well I think that perhaps based on what you said, since each form and place is different why not create a central hub that leads to different themes that blend in the center yet become more distinct as your reach your desired from of transit?

I like the idea, but I feel that space might be just a bit limited to do that and things are just too compressed. If you were to theme the ferry boat area differently than the monorail area, it would create a very jarring imagine I think. It also doesn't help that the hub stays the same but leads to very different destinations that make theming it (in my mind) and difficult and losing proposition. The only real place that theming can become more exclusive to the area is near the walkway to the Polynesian. I also believe they do this as best as they can with the type of planter material they use and the ever increasing foliage.

 

[flavious27]

I like the idea, but I feel that space might be just a bit limited to do that and things are just too compressed. If you were to theme the ferry boat area differently than the monorail area, it would create a very jarring imagine I think. It also doesn't help that the hub stays the same but leads to very different destinations that make theming it (in my mind) and difficult and losing proposition. The only real place that theming can become more exclusive to the area is near the walkway to the Polynesian. I also believe they do this as best as they can with the type of planter material they use and the ever increasing foliage.

agreed, the ttc is not large enough to have so many themes. along with that, the ttc is not in the middle of the seven seas lagoon. So a theme in the spirit of the GF would have the Polynesian in the middle of the experience. The same could be said for the contemporary; if they build a resort or dvc in the old Venician plot, it would detract from the look.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Very pretty. All good looking ideas. So I was thinking of mentioning Santiago Calatrava and his buildings that are similarly organic in form for the reasons you state here, but then it occurred to me that it felt kind of "real world". Airports have that same kind of feel so if it was contemporary, then it would want to be super unique (a big show element inside of some kind?) so you don't feel like you are in a typical modern Airport or trans hub. I wonder how many functions of ticketing will fade away in the future as you get them in your phone, online, etc. I'd rather see the whole thing evolve away from process.

In the thread from which this discussion originated, I had suggested an emphasis on sustainable and environmentally friendly design and construction. The company has a history of supporting environmentalism and that tradition carries through today with things like Disneynature, the Disney Worldwide Conservation Fund and various other projects. Why not have something like a LEED Platinum transit center? Let Walt Disney World once again be a model for communities of the world. We've been talking about interactive queues, well the queues for the monorails, ferries, trams and buses could all teach people about the design and environmentally friendly nature of the various transportation forms.

I could see disney elements inside that could be modeled after transportation in disney films, how about a 3d sculpture of steamboat willie as a centerpiece?

Well I think that perhaps based on what you said, since each form and place is different why not create a central hub that leads to different themes that blend in the center yet become more distinct as your reach your desired from of transit?

See, I do not like these sort of intentional self references that so many today consider to be necessary in order for a space to be considered "Disney". If anything I would argue that the one big characteristic behind Disney's building program is functionalism, the Burbank studio was built to make animated films, Disneyland was build to create experiences while also handling the crowds of people, EPCOT was intended to improve the city. Likewise I think a transit center should first aim to be very good at moving people around.