Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

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T-1MILLION

New Member
I noticed something in the Micechat update today that might interest you. There is a photo of a new limited edition Starspeeder 1000 in the gift shop (Red with stripes). I assume this is inspired by the new ride vehicle. In studying it closer, noticed only 3 doors whereas the old vehicles had 5. I wonder if they took out seats or reconfigured the new vehicles? or this is just artistic license at the toy factory?

Honestly they seem to just be a repainted version of the old Starspeeder 3000 plastic functioning door and sound toys that also only featured 3 doors on each side for the sake of creative liberties and ease with the design I imagine. I have one of the 3000 ones and as far as I can tell from all the images I have seen (from the outside the new toy model) are the exact same thing only a different series of colors. That being said I imagine the other change will be instead of a Toy Rex to squeeze into a half circle piece it will be a C3PO piece and a change to the sound buttons.
 

Mansion Butler

Active Member
What on earth does too many props mean? Would we no longer get something with as much to look at as all of Brer Rabbit's lamps and doodads in the Briar Patch? Is there a reason for that other than money?
 

Bonemachine

New Member
Hey there, I've been reading this board for a couple months because I'm soon going to take my first trip in about ten years to WDW. I've read through most of this thread and I just want to thank Eddie and everyone else for some very interesting and insightful reading. I've often dreamed of becoming an imagineer and your stories are inspiring. I look forward to participating in this thread.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Honestly they seem to just be a repainted version of the old Starspeeder 3000 plastic functioning door and sound toys that also only featured 3 doors on each side for the sake of creative liberties and ease with the design I imagine. I have one of the 3000 ones and as far as I can tell from all the images I have seen (from the outside the new toy model) are the exact same thing only a different series of colors. That being said I imagine the other change will be instead of a Toy Rex to squeeze into a half circle piece it will be a C3PO piece and a change to the sound buttons.

False alarm. We will return to our regular programming already in progress.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
What on earth does too many props mean? Would we no longer get something with as much to look at as all of Brer Rabbit's lamps and doodads in the Briar Patch? Is there a reason for that other than money?

When Euro Disneyland opened, the merchandise sales numbers were really bad. As time passed they realized that the European audience is not the same as here in the states and they as a rule do not buy souvenirs and T shirts with the zeal that we do. Europeans don't wear ballcaps and T Shirts as a uniform, at least they didn't in 1992. The initial knee jerk reaction from merchandise as to why the sales were so off, was to blame the overt and rich theming of the stores themselves and to say that you can't find the merchandise for all the decor. We did have rich theming but in some cases it was in place of an attraction. The trouble was also that the product itself was not something Europeans wanted to buy even if it was more visible. So corporate was conviced by them that we were to blame. The way merchandise was to be displayed had to be changed and WDI was not to be trusted. A very bad time indeed. We were the reason it didn't do well.

Enter the consultants who designed the "World of Disney" store. The Disney retail stores were doing great at that time, out there selling merchandise in a Disney "styled" environment versus a themed one around a land or place. Very merchant driven and not an escape at all. This slowly became the new benchmark for how retail was to be done even inside the park. The merchandise folks loved the "World of Disney" store with high ceilings and solid bulk stacked product up to 8 feet. They claimed it sold more stuff in that format. You could do themed props above that but it's strictly business below. Props and "set dressing" were secondary and shoved aside in favor of "iconic displays" placed at the entrances to draw you in (massive Snow Globe or stuffed Mickey,etc). Lighting was track mounted or recessed halogens en masse and there was an adjustable spotlight for practically every piece of product. Ceilings were a mess. Merchants want to see across the store so the bunkers could only be so high. We had left the "movie set" approach forever and replaced it with a "retailers Disney template" that could have themed seasoning buttered over it.

BTW- It's not to say that you can't point to some very well done retail stores in the parks either. WDI Interiors/Show Quality does very clever things with this formula approach to make it feel less that way. But when you have to replace the real Italian Espresso bar with a Starbucks, something is lost.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Hey there, I've been reading this board for a couple months because I'm soon going to take my first trip in about ten years to WDW. I've read through most of this thread and I just want to thank Eddie and everyone else for some very interesting and insightful reading. I've often dreamed of becoming an imagineer and your stories are inspiring. I look forward to participating in this thread.

We welcome your thoughts..
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Steve Job's health and Disney

We have been reading the recent reports about Apple's guru Steve Job's declining health lately and it's not good. I for one am a huge fan of his sense of taste and love his outspoken way of cutting through the issues. If we lost him there would be a gaping hole at Apple. It's stock is sliding today possibly as a result of rumors on his impact to the company.

The story I have not heard is the impact of his being Disney's largest single stockholder and from what I can tell, he must contribute in an advisory way to the tech strategies of the WDC. At least in critique. Disney adopted the iPad and were the first studio to jump into supporting iTunes content early on. A Verizon deal kept them out of the iPhone Apps but now that has changed as well. If Steve has to leave the Disney board, will that soften the creative technology edge of Disney? I know he criticized the design of WDI on occasion (Hawaii hotel). Board members review all the big stuff. He has always had an opinion and good taste and that is worth alot. No real way of knowing this but I thought it was worth discussion.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
When Euro Disneyland opened, the merchandise sales numbers were really bad. As time passed they realized that the European audience is not the same as here in the states and they as a rule do not buy souvenirs and T shirts with the zeal that we do. Europeans don't wear ballcaps and T Shirts as a uniform, at least they didn't in 1992. The initial knee jerk reaction from merchandise as to why the sales were so off, was to blame the overt and rich theming of the stores themselves and to say that you can't find the merchandise for all the decor. We did have rich theming but in some cases it was in place of an attraction. The trouble was also that the product itself was not something Europeans wanted to buy even if it was more visible. So corporate was conviced by them that we were to blame. The way merchandise was to be displayed had to be changed and WDI was not to be trusted. A very bad time indeed. We were the reason it didn't do well.

Enter the consultants who designed the "World of Disney" store. The Disney retail stores were doing great at that time, out there selling merchandise in a Disney "styled" environment versus a themed one around a land or place. Very merchant driven and not an escape at all. This slowly became the new benchmark for how retail was to be done even inside the park. The merchandise folks loved the "World of Disney" store with high ceilings and solid bulk stacked product up to 8 feet. They claimed it sold more stuff in that format. You could do themed props above that but it's strictly business below. Props and "set dressing" were secondary and shoved aside in favor of "iconic displays" placed at the entrances to draw you in (massive Snow Globe or stuffed Mickey,etc). Lighting was track mounted or recessed halogens en masse and there was an adjustable spotlight for practically every piece of product. Ceilings were a mess. Merchants want to see across the store so the bunkers could only be so high. We had left the "movie set" approach forever and replaced it with a "retailers Disney template" that could have themed seasoning buttered over it.

BTW- It's not to say that you can't point to some very well done retail stores in the parks either. WDI Interiors/Show Quality does very clever things with this formula approach to make it feel less that way. But when you have to replace the real Italian Espresso bar with a Starbucks, something is lost.

Wow interesting (and scary). Thanks for sharing, I had never heard this before.
 

T-1MILLION

New Member
We have been reading the recent reports about Apple's guru Steve Job's declining health lately and it's not good. I for one am a huge fan of his sense of taste and love his outspoken way of cutting through the issues. If we lost him there would be a gaping hole at Apple. It's stock is sliding today possibly as a result of rumors on his impact to the company.

The story I have not heard is the impact of his being Disney's largest single stockholder and from what I can tell, he must contribute in an advisory way to the tech strategies of the WDC. At least in critique. Disney adopted the iPad and were the first studio to jump into supporting iTunes content early on. A Verizon deal kept them out of the iPhone Apps but now that has changed as well. If Steve has to leave the Disney board, will that soften the creative technology edge of Disney? I know he criticized the design of WDI on occasion (Hawaii hotel). Board members review all the big stuff. He has always had an opinion and good taste and that is worth alot. No real way of knowing this but I thought it was worth discussion.

That is sad to think about losing anybody and he clearly is a visionary. I am not a big apple fan but I can't deny that the guy has for sure pushed for some great things. I wish him well. I like to think that Disney's creative edge does not just come from one person but losing any of them would for sure be a huge loss not only as an asset to the company but a human being as well.

I don't know if it is true or not but I wanna say it is a quote of his, just can't recall or find a source but "Focus Groups do not make a great product, they make a safe one" or something to that idea. I can really get behind that, especially with forced surveys and the like that entertainment companies of Disney's scope can do.
 

Bonemachine

New Member
I wasn't aware of his declining health. That's a shame. Apple is wonderful. If you take the time to get comfortable with Macs you really start to realize how much more user friendly they are than PC's. Plus, I don't know what I'd do without my Ipods. I actually wasn't even really aware of his connections with Disney but it makes sense. He's a true visionary like Walt and he's always pushing boundaries which I have immense respect for.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
When Euro Disneyland opened, the merchandise sales numbers were really bad. As time passed they realized that the European audience is not the same as here in the states and they as a rule do not buy souvenirs and T shirts with the zeal that we do. Europeans don't wear ballcaps and T Shirts as a uniform, at least they didn't in 1992. The initial knee jerk reaction from merchandise as to why the sales were so off, was to blame the overt and rich theming of the stores themselves and to say that you can't find the merchandise for all the decor. We did have rich theming but in some cases it was in place of an attraction. The trouble was also that the product itself was not something Europeans wanted to buy even if it was more visible. So corporate was conviced by them that we were to blame. The way merchandise was to be displayed had to be changed and WDI was not to be trusted. A very bad time indeed. We were the reason it didn't do well.

Enter the consultants who designed the "World of Disney" store. The Disney retail stores were doing great at that time, out there selling merchandise in a Disney "styled" environment versus a themed one around a land or place. Very merchant driven and not an escape at all. This slowly became the new benchmark for how retail was to be done even inside the park. The merchandise folks loved the "World of Disney" store with high ceilings and solid bulk stacked product up to 8 feet. They claimed it sold more stuff in that format. You could do themed props above that but it's strictly business below. Props and "set dressing" were secondary and shoved aside in favor of "iconic displays" placed at the entrances to draw you in (massive Snow Globe or stuffed Mickey,etc). Lighting was track mounted or recessed halogens en masse and there was an adjustable spotlight for practically every piece of product. Ceilings were a mess. Merchants want to see across the store so the bunkers could only be so high. We had left the "movie set" approach forever and replaced it with a "retailers Disney template" that could have themed seasoning buttered over it.

BTW- It's not to say that you can't point to some very well done retail stores in the parks either. WDI Interiors/Show Quality does very clever things with this formula approach to make it feel less that way. But when you have to replace the real Italian Espresso bar with a Starbucks, something is lost.

That is crazy. Hard to believe that corporate would be blaming WDI for poor merchandise sales. And the reasoning behind it is borderline offensive. To say that people were unable to buy merch because they could not figure out what was for sale. It is too bad, the idea of shopping in a highly themed environment is way more appealing to me, and I am sure many others, then just walking into a space filled with tables and countertops stacked with merchandise. In fact, I dare say I would be spending more money in Disney stores, both inside and outside the parks, if they were highly themed and provided more of an escape from reality.

You are right that WDI has managed to accomplish some very clever things with just being able to use the upper portions of the stores. A good example of this is Sir Mickey's at the Magic Kingdom. For those that don't know, the ceiling in this store is being lifted by the Giant from Mickey and the Beanstalk, and he is peeking inside, very cool.

We have been reading the recent reports about Apple's guru Steve Job's declining health lately and it's not good. I for one am a huge fan of his sense of taste and love his outspoken way of cutting through the issues. If we lost him there would be a gaping hole at Apple. It's stock is sliding today possibly as a result of rumors on his impact to the company.

The story I have not heard is the impact of his being Disney's largest single stockholder and from what I can tell, he must contribute in an advisory way to the tech strategies of the WDC. At least in critique. Disney adopted the iPad and were the first studio to jump into supporting iTunes content early on. A Verizon deal kept them out of the iPhone Apps but now that has changed as well. If Steve has to leave the Disney board, will that soften the creative technology edge of Disney? I know he criticized the design of WDI on occasion (Hawaii hotel). Board members review all the big stuff. He has always had an opinion and good taste and that is worth alot. No real way of knowing this but I thought it was worth discussion.

I feel like this is going to be a Major loss for not just apple, but people in general. He has been a visionary, and really pushed technology to new levels.

I had a pretty large portion of my portfolio in Apple up until this past friday. It has been a major win for me overall, but I could not keep my money in that company not knowing his health status. I think Apple will be fine in the long run, but the initial hit will be brutal.

I think, if he does pass, the impact on Disney will not be very significant. I am sure he was a very valuable resource to have, and undoubtably the leader of the board. But Disney is not his company, so I think, they will not feel his loss too badly.

I do admire Jobs a great deal. I love Apple products, I have the Iphone, Ipad, Macbook, Ipods. He is the man, besides John Lasseter, most responsible for PIXAR as well. His passing will be sad.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
That is crazy. Hard to believe that corporate would be blaming WDI for poor merchandise sales. And the reasoning behind it is borderline offensive. To say that people were unable to buy merch because they could not figure out what was for sale. It is too bad, the idea of shopping in a highly themed environment is way more appealing to me, and I am sure many others, then just walking into a space filled with tables and countertops stacked with merchandise. In fact, I dare say I would be spending more money in Disney stores, both inside and outside the parks, if they were highly themed and provided more of an escape from reality.

I do admire Jobs a great deal. I love Apple products, I have the Iphone, Ipad, Macbook, Ipods. He is the man, besides John Lasseter, most responsible for PIXAR as well. His passing will be sad.

It sounds crazy, but to them it isn't. Store design does have a big effect on sales. Shelf space is considered to be gold to the merchandise team and the more they have, the more they feel the odds are of selling things. We later came up with a compromise by creating levels of theming in stores. A,. B and C stores. Some are more of a boutique (New Orleans Square) and others are volume oriented like the Emporium. I'm not sure how closely this has been followed in recent years. Merchants do appreciate the need to attract guests with something interesting in the shop, but sometimes just the period theming does not do it for them.

There was basically a loud voice from the highest office that told merchandise to "do what you have to do" to get sales up. They also thought some of the stores were too dark in color palette and product lighting. Lighting was not great in some of the stores, but that was in part to us not allowing recessed contemporary lights. I have mixed feelings about that as some of the shops looked a bit flat from a lighting perspective when they are lit true to period. No accents. I do take exception to not having dark colors behind the merchandise as Tiffanys uses black velvet to showcase their Jewels and that sets them off. How much more so a plush toy? So contrast makes things stand out, not just light colors. Basically, in these complex environments, simple one liner solutions are not really elegant or practical. They become more of a mandate for sameness.

The point is that most of this was in the past, but as designers you have to work in many "boxes" and please many masters. In this case, it was a conflict between the direction I was given (it's a movie set and in period) and those accountable for the sales (it's a period store that has to sell products). I learned alot because both sides had their points.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
No Reservations?

Kevin Yee discusses NextGen and Fastpass scenarios in an interesting new article that poses some worthwhile questions that dovetail nicely into some discussions we've been having here about queues, and not being able to just walk up to a ride without a reservation.

http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky022311a.htm

What are your thoughts on this? I hate the stress of having to show up for several ride "appointments" during my time off.
 

Bonemachine

New Member
Speaking of Steve Jobs, some of these hipster disney memes are so funny it's almost too perfect. http://www.buzzfeed.com/ashleybaccam/a-collection-of-the-best-hipster-disney-memes

Hipster-Snow-White.jpg


It's like the Ariel character was tailor made to be the butt of hipster jokes. Some of my favorites are:

"Down here we had a whole crustacean band ... Before they sold out."
"I got legs ... so I could wear skinny jeans."
"I listened to Belle and Sebastian ... Before they were Disney characters."
"Your music is underground? ... Well mine is underwater!"
"I want to go where the PBR."

Hahaha, great stuff. My hat is off to whoever took part in making those.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
When Euro Disneyland opened, the merchandise sales numbers were really bad. As time passed they realized that the European audience is not the same as here in the states and they as a rule do not buy souvenirs and T shirts with the zeal that we do. Europeans don't wear ballcaps and T Shirts as a uniform, at least they didn't in 1992. The initial knee jerk reaction from merchandise as to why the sales were so off, was to blame the overt and rich theming of the stores themselves and to say that you can't find the merchandise for all the decor. We did have rich theming but in some cases it was in place of an attraction. The trouble was also that the product itself was not something Europeans wanted to buy even if it was more visible. So corporate was conviced by them that we were to blame. The way merchandise was to be displayed had to be changed and WDI was not to be trusted. A very bad time indeed. We were the reason it didn't do well.

Thanks for sharing that story! And I think it is still that way today that for a lot of European tourists shopping is not as much part of their vacation experience than it appears to be for many Americans.

I wonder wether beautifully themed shops would not have been better in the long run - people would have spent more time to explore the shop and while they were inside they might find something they wanted to buy...
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Thanks for sharing that story! And I think it is still that way today that for a lot of European tourists shopping is not as much part of their vacation experience than it appears to be for many Americans.

I wonder wether beautifully themed shops would not have been better in the long run - people would have spent more time to explore the shop and while they were inside they might find something they wanted to buy...

That's what we thought.. "entertain them the best way you know how and they will pay you back".
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Speaking of Steve Jobs, some of these hipster disney memes are so funny it's almost too perfect. http://www.buzzfeed.com/ashleybaccam/a-collection-of-the-best-hipster-disney-memes

Hipster-Snow-White.jpg


It's like the Ariel character was tailor made to be the butt of hipster jokes. Some of my favorites are:

"Down here we had a whole crustacean band ... Before they sold out."
"I got legs ... so I could wear skinny jeans."
"I listened to Belle and Sebastian ... Before they were Disney characters."
"Your music is underground? ... Well mine is underwater!"
"I want to go where the PBR."

Hahaha, great stuff. My hat is off to whoever took part in making those.

Disneyland is sooooo 1955.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
Kevin Yee discusses NextGen and Fastpass scenarios in an interesting new article that poses some worthwhile questions that dovetail nicely into some discussions we've been having here about queues, and not being able to just walk up to a ride without a reservation.

http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky022311a.htm

What are your thoughts on this? I hate the stress of having to show up for several ride "appointments" during my time off.

There will never be such a thing as a lineless ride, guests will need to wait in line for any ride. Having guests book fastpasses months in advance creates many problems while prioritizing guests based on what hotel they stay at will rub the majority of guests the wrong way. Also having meet and greets with FP just commoditizes the experience, it no longer feels special but forced.

Having a matrix of sensors that are unseen to guests that enhance their experience is going in the right direction. Having queues that start to tell the story and immerse the guests is the latest way to make rides better.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
There will never be such a thing as a lineless ride, guests will need to wait in line for any ride. Having guests book fastpasses months in advance creates many problems while prioritizing guests based on what hotel they stay at will rub the majority of guests the wrong way. Also having meet and greets with FP just commoditizes the experience, it no longer feels special but forced.

Having a matrix of sensors that are unseen to guests that enhance their experience is going in the right direction. Having queues that start to tell the story and immerse the guests is the latest way to make rides better.

I think that is their goal. Seamlessly make it all "just work". FP tells me we are still caught in the clunky transition from "gas to electric". It is true however that people are addicted to phones and will now look at their texts or email to kill time in line, so once you create something that is more interesting to see in line than your email, then you're back in business. It is an addiction and so that is hard to compete with.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I was at DL yesterday for about two hours and I must say that the CM's everywhere I went were outstanding. Great outgoing spirit and so friendly. The Corn Dog Truck had a big line so they recognized that and came out to take orders and sped the thing right up. So warm and friendly, never made the guests feel rushed.

Has anyone noticed that the attrax/shows go down alot?
 
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