Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
You are right it does have those panels. Pretty subtle. Never realized it though.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks
- Thread starter hpyhnt 1000
- Start date
- Status
You are right it does have those panels. Pretty subtle. Never realized it though.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Okay. My mind is been wondering too and that can be a dangerous thing.
Perhaps the opportunity at Epcot is get past what "man has done" on "Spaceship Earth" and look deeper into the planet itself and what truly sustains us? To show the resiliency of the environment gives us hope that the planet will always be here if we are, it's up to us to behave in a way that allows us to be a worthy tenant. It seems the Gulf of Mexico is healing itself faster than some expected. When forest fires doomed Yellowstone Park in the 80s everyone thought it was lost forever until the earth brought it back in a different yet beautiful way. For the first time in human history man seems to feel like he is truly at the mercy of the planet itself and fears for his extinction. Ironically we know so little about our planet but can't wait to get off of it and settle another. Perhaps part of Epcot's mission could be to use landscaping as an attraction to help to future generations to really understand our home better. Imagine what the Land Pavilion could be like if you let landscape architects and designers go crazy. Like a rock star that trashes a hotel room, man needs to be a better guest. The earth could show you how. When Epcot opened no one would've predicted that, other than pollution we would have been faced with any kind of global climatic issues to try and understand. As you've pointed out, Epcot Center showcases the wonders of nature in a unique way. Can we go further?
Of course, the one thing you could say about the 21st century is that more of man's problems are global and no longer regional. Epcot being a park steeped in the notion of international cooperation, would have been a perfect showcase for positive global solutions to man's problems. But no matter what you do, it becomes political at some point. Even the subject of environment which used to be a very benign topic, is now a gigantic industry so it has become politically charged as well. In absence of that, it's probably not a bad idea to at least humbly admit that we know that we don't know, but are willing to learn. Of course, you teach a better way by kindling people's curiosity about what can be, and being a living example. They can decide if they like it or not. "We are doing" rather than "You should be doing".
I can tell you that when it comes to landscaping I have a renewed sense of discovery and appreciation for the miracle that the Earth truly is and how to better showcase what's already here. All I'm really saying is that the earth itself plays a crucial role in our future, and to your point, Epcot is a perfect place to draw attention to that.
All over the map here, thanks for being patient..
Great stuff and I am optimistic this is the direction Epcot is going in.
This could add a whole new perspective in a reimagined "Wonders of Life" pavillion. Perfectly suited subject for Epcot and Future World.
And I agree with you that this is likely the next step in technological achievement. A new frontier.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Yeah. If you had a chance to see the "Planet Earth" series, there are so many natural things that surprise you about this place but never knew. If you want to see the shockingly dark side of the earth and what industrialization is doing to it..
search on google images
edward burtynsky
misterID
Well-Known Member
Okay. My mind is been wondering too and that can be a dangerous thing.
Perhaps the opportunity at Epcot is get past what "man has done" on "Spaceship Earth" and look deeper into the planet itself and what truly sustains us? To show the resiliency of the environment gives us hope that the planet will always be here if we are, it's up to us to behave in a way that allows us to be a worthy tenant. It seems the Gulf of Mexico is healing itself faster than some expected. When forest fires doomed Yellowstone Park in the 80s everyone thought it was lost forever until the earth brought it back in a different yet beautiful way. For the first time in human history man seems to feel like he is truly at the mercy of the planet itself and fears for his extinction. Ironically we know so little about our planet but can't wait to get off of it and settle another. Perhaps part of Epcot's mission could be to use landscaping as an attraction to help to future generations to really understand our home better. Imagine what the Land Pavilion could be like if you let landscape architects and designers go crazy. Like a rock star that trashes a hotel room, man needs to be a better guest. The earth could show you how. When Epcot opened no one would've predicted that, other than pollution we would have been faced with any kind of global climatic issues to try and understand. As you've pointed out, Epcot Center showcases the wonders of nature in a unique way. Can we go further?
Of course, the one thing you could say about the 21st century is that more of man's problems are global and no longer regional. Epcot being a park steeped in the notion of international cooperation, would have been a perfect showcase for positive global solutions to man's problems. But no matter what you do, it becomes political at some point. Even the subject of environment which used to be a very benign topic, is now a gigantic industry so it has become politically charged as well. In absence of that, it's probably not a bad idea to at least humbly admit that we know that we don't know, but are willing to learn. Of course, you teach a better way by kindling people's curiosity about what can be, and being a living example. They can decide if they like it or not. "We are doing" rather than "You should be doing".
I can tell you that when it comes to landscaping I have a renewed sense of discovery and appreciation for the miracle that the Earth truly is and how to better showcase what's already here. All I'm really saying is that the earth itself plays a crucial role in our future, and to your point, Epcot is a perfect place to draw attention to that.
All over the map here, thanks for being patient..
That kind of sounds like Project Gemini.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
No idea what that is...like John Glenn?
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Some of my favorite proposals that died in great balls of flaming tracing paper were projects like
"StarShip" The first thing I ever proposed at WED was redressing the Carousel Theatre in Disneyland's Tomorrowland into a giant spacecraft that had landed with a traveling show from another galaxy within. We did several versions, some of which had high-tech labyrinths inside. This idea was later resurrected by another producer as Plectu's Circus.
"Sci-Fi City". This was a science fiction themed Tomorrowland for Tokyo Disneyland which included rocket powered motorcycles, a flying saucer rocket jet ride, and off-world-off-road Autopia called Lunar Rovers, a UFO Alien abduction attraction, and a Sci Fi petting Zoo of monsters. Missed it by that much.
"Dragon's Lair" at Disneyland. This was adding a dungeon to the castle with a talking fire breathing dragon that interacted with guests. Think turtle talk with a zippo lighter. Almost got made.
"Submarine Voyage- Search for Titanic". This was a National Geographic styled expedition to the ocean floor to explore the real Titanic with all kinds of fantasy thrills as a surprise Atlantean ending. Some of the R&D for the effects ended up in the Finding Nemo attraction.
"Lafitte's Island" makeover of Tom Sawyer Island. Underground crypts and Skeletal catacombs lead to a capsized pirate hideout with grog, guns, and lots and lots of treasure. Management underwhelmed.
Haunted Mansion 3-D makeover. Mardi Gras masks are 3-D glasses in this adventure where the walk-through ends in the ballroom and you are seated at the table. Suddenly as the lightning flashes The chairs are whisked away into the darkness one by one. This was the TDL Pooh wireless ride system meets Poltergeist. Too intense and pricey. DOA
It's hard to say which one I would want to build most if I had the chance. Some of these ideas age better than others. Sci-Fi city in Tokyo would've been nice.
Those are just a couple hints of some of the big ones that got away and in some cases maybe they should have, but you love each one of them enough to go down swinging to try to get them made. Of course, it would've been nice to have just been able to finish the 1920s update to Main Street in Paris.
misterID
Well-Known Member
It's when EPCOT'S FW was going to be rethemed as Discoveryland.
http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_chief1/b/jim_hill/archive/2003/02/19/218.aspx
http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_chief1/b/jim_hill/archive/2003/02/19/218.aspx
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Aaah, that. ok.
Figment571
Member
Hey Mr. Sotto,
As with most I'm a long time reader, first time poster because I had heard of this concept mentioned before and I thought it was brilliant. Though it is a dramatic alteration to a "classic" it would have truly done something bold and new that had never been seen before. I also find ideas like this fascinating due to the fact that they would in fact appeals to an audience who Disney doesn't typically try to bring in and I think hurts for it.
It seems as if Disney appeals to 2-14 and Young newlyweds- Old folks, and there is a big chunk missing. In my opinion it seems that Disney could care less about the teenage and young adult market; sure, Disney needs to be a place for everyone but there needs to be more thrilling or intense experiences for those who want them. As a 19 yr old college freshmen I have often found myself defending Disney from being just kiddy stuff.
What is your opinion?
ChrisFL
Premium Member
Here's a site about the Sci-Fi City concept with drawings:
http://eojsodanreb.tumblr.com/post/588947426/lost-disney-world-tokyo-disneylands-sci-fi-city
It looks awesome, but I can understand why OLC had to go toward DisneySea planning instead at that time...I think eventually we'll see a new Tomorrowland there
http://eojsodanreb.tumblr.com/post/588947426/lost-disney-world-tokyo-disneylands-sci-fi-city
It looks awesome, but I can understand why OLC had to go toward DisneySea planning instead at that time...I think eventually we'll see a new Tomorrowland there
atsolomon
Well-Known Member
Hi Eddie,
Your recent comments about the landscaping around WDW reminded me of the book "Devil in the White City". It's a book about the Chicago World's Fair in 1893-- Fredrick Law Olmstead designed the landscaping for it. Walt's father worked on some of the building and in some ways the fair may have been an antecedent of the theme parks; it had the world's first Ferris Wheel, a "global village" with people from other countries representing their lands, a showcase for new technologies, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_Columbian_Exposition
It was interesting reading some of the conflicts between the designers/architects' visions for the fair and the commercial interests of the businessmen and marketers, conflicts that seemed awfully familiar to me from reading this thread. ;-)
--Adam
Your recent comments about the landscaping around WDW reminded me of the book "Devil in the White City". It's a book about the Chicago World's Fair in 1893-- Fredrick Law Olmstead designed the landscaping for it. Walt's father worked on some of the building and in some ways the fair may have been an antecedent of the theme parks; it had the world's first Ferris Wheel, a "global village" with people from other countries representing their lands, a showcase for new technologies, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_Columbian_Exposition
It was interesting reading some of the conflicts between the designers/architects' visions for the fair and the commercial interests of the businessmen and marketers, conflicts that seemed awfully familiar to me from reading this thread. ;-)
--Adam
HMF
Well-Known Member
After you left they had two Imagineers labeled as "Show Producers" on Mission: Space. Does this happen often or is that rare.
HMF
Well-Known Member
If the guests got too close to the wall or door, would they have died instantly? Kudos to the 5 people who will get it.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Eddie, those commonly seen images of Sci-Fi City look like presentation boards more than the traditionally released concept art. Are they from a presentation and do you have any advice or words to say on composing and presenting ideas?
That book, published in 1964, also discusses turning city centers into pedestrian friendly shopping and mass transit centers with cars, trucks and other services relegated to basement levels. Suburbs would be built out concentrically around this center and more local nodes. Sound familiar?
According to Victor Gruen, in his The Heart of Our Cities: Urban Diagnosis: Crisis and Cure, the Exposition was also home to a working prototype of a continuously moving people mover. Disney fans would recognize that as the primary feature of the WEDway PeopleMover.
That book, published in 1964, also discusses turning city centers into pedestrian friendly shopping and mass transit centers with cars, trucks and other services relegated to basement levels. Suburbs would be built out concentrically around this center and more local nodes. Sound familiar?
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
I read that book as well and those conflicts are very real and are organic to the process. It made me laugh at times as history does repeat itself!
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
I live to do stuff no one has seen. There is always a risk as you toy with the past. In the case of the HM it was about getting to have an experience in a room everyone knows but has never been allowed to explore. Then if you were "picked off" disappearing into the darkness one by one by the "ghost host", it could be an extension of the original story. Probably too intense as your chair tilted back and you indexed against a 3D screen on your back and the caretaker was shoveling dirt on you! You awakened in the graveyard. That would never fly. The art is in a D23 Magazine but they had no idea what it represented.
As they say... "The Journey IS the destination!"
darthspielberg
Well-Known Member
And that would have used the Hunny Hunt trackless ride system? Damn, that sounds impressive.
Would this have been a revamp of the old attraction, or a separate attraction themed to the same thing?
Would this have been a revamp of the old attraction, or a separate attraction themed to the same thing?
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Yes, each pair of high backed dining chairs is linked at the floor to become a wireless ride vehicle. (The safety bar lowers from underneath the dining room table.) I think there were "dishes" with faces that appear at your place setting, and effects happened at your place at the table before departure. Like in the old murder mystery "and then there were none", guests keep "vanishing" when the lightning darkens the room, replaced by a set of empty chairs. You are grabbed and "led" to the graveyard where you are all part of this insane musical dance macbre. That ballroom scene is what is shown in the D23 magazine. We thought it could have been a big "wow" with that ride system as it can do so many disembodied things. With 3D "mardi gras masks" you are going to the party and of course digital effects can be blended with physical objects. There were tons of issues like cost (cha-ching) and how we cycle things etc, but that is normal. This would have been a huge commitment, but you have to do something really extraordinary to get people to come back as you are enhancing a classic. There was a call to propose enhancements to existing attractions for DL 50th, so I think that was what this idea was. From a budget perspective it was almost a new attraction, but you'd still have all the classic characters, the stretch room, hallway, and even the same graveyard in concept. You would experience these areas in a very "how did they do that?" way. The idea was to build on the things you liked about the show and perhaps make it more intense and magical. I'm sure any change to the HM would have resulted in massive riots, hunger strikes and fan outrage. We then proposed it for TDL, but it was meant for DL. We worked on an enhancement package for Pirates as well. We almost got that through, with real flames added to the cannons on the Ship and a more intense arsenal scene.
Today my personal point of view is that I don't endorse santizing the occult and would not work on it. But this is what was proposed back then.
ChrisFL
Premium Member
Do you know if any of your ideas were going to be worked into the plans for the new HKDL Mystic Manor attraction?
- Status