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Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

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devoy1701

Well-Known Member
Well they make up lies about how everything is bad in WDW, it is all dirty, rude CMs, etc. etc.

Plus they go on and on about how if you dont agree with them you are a Disney Apologists and you are causing the collapse of WDW.

There you go again with saying that people are lying when they have experienced something sub-par at Disney World.

Cast Members are human...they can be rude at times. I have experienced it on more than one occasion. I WISH they could higher ONLY people who cared about the company and Walt Disney's Dream...but unfortunately when you need a workforce of 35,000+ that isn't possible. So yes, it is possible to not only encounter a rude CM from time to time, but also a CM who just doesn't care about the Disney Dream.

And again with the dirty thing...yes that happens too...Mold in the bathroom, had that last month at the Wilderness Lodge. Spiderwebs not being taken down in guest areas...check. RATS walking across the walkways in Hollywood Studios...sure thing!

If people have experienced these things, they are not lies...Disney World is NOT a Utopia. Doesn't mean it isn't a great place. But things like that also doesn't reflect the fact that management needs to re-evalute the way operations are conducted...which they seem to be doing lately.
 

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
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Well they make up lies about how everything is bad in WDW, it is all dirty, rude CMs, etc. etc.

Plus they go on and on about how if you dont agree with them you are a Disney Apologists and you are causing the collapse of WDW.
How do you know they are lies? Why would they lie? Why is it so unreasonable to think that a visitor to WDW might actually encounter dirty areas or rude CMs?

Both of those situations are inevitable in an operation as large as WDW. The issue is how common they are, and if they are becoming more and more prevalent during most guests vacations. I think many long time visitors would agree that they are much more common than they were in the past.
 

HBG2

Member
Woah. I responded with a few more details. I think it could have been subtle enough to work.
Thank you; I very much appreciate the personal response, Eddie. I've added a note within the body of the blog post and responded in the comments section there also.
 

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
Well they make up lies about how everything is bad in WDW, it is all dirty, rude CMs, etc. etc.

Plus they go on and on about how if you dont agree with them you are a Disney Apologists and you are causing the collapse of WDW.
For the last time, the fact that someone holds a different opinion, based upon personal experience or taste, doesn't make it a lie. I happen to think that I have the most wonderful family in the world - that neither makes it true nor false, just my opinion. I might be mistaken, but I am not lying.

So please stop tossing that word around so frequently.
 

Mansion Butler

Active Member
I get cheese pizzas at both parks and they taste exactly the same to me! I enjoy both. The popcorn is the same, as well - really good! ;)
Really? Man, the quick service pizzas are exactly what stand out to me from Busch Gardens as the worst thing, and the first time I went to Sea World it was exactly what stood out to me as significantly better.

:shrug:
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I'd like to get the thread back into the areas it does well, which is discussing theme park design and Imagineering. There will always be difference of opinion on which park, food, maintenance is best, etc. So let's move on shall we? :animwink:
 

Mansion Butler

Active Member
I'd like to get the thread back into the areas it does well, which is discussing theme park design and Imagineering. There will always be difference of opinion on which park, food, maintenance is best, etc. So let's move on shall we? :animwink:
Agreed. I would like to ask if a mod could cut some of the stuff out and put them in a new thread (this post, too).

Thank you, if so!
 

Peter Schaab

New Member
My friend Mr.EPCOT alerted me that the Epcot redesign project got mentioned a few pages back...if any one has any questions or criticisms about, maybe I can answer some of them. I've always shied away form message boards, but I figured it's about time to stop "hiding."

Mr. Sotto, you are one of the Imagineers whose work inspired me to pursue a career in design...many thanks!

And to try to help put this thread back on topic, what does everyone think about creating unifying narrative threads (along the lines of the Lafitte storyline) for not just lands, but entire parks...would it be too restrictive to designers of future additions/renovations?
 

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
And to try to help put this thread back on topic, what does everyone think about creating unifying narrative threads (along the lines of the Lafitte storyline) for not just lands, but entire parks...would it be too restrictive to designers of future additions/renovations?
Peter, thanks for sharing your ideas with the world on your site.

As for the concept itself, I like it. I think it's an interesting idea to give the park a sense of mission. And I wonder if there would be greater potential for finding sponsorship or other financial backing with some of your ideas. That said, my concern is that, in and of itself, I'm not sure it enriches the guest experience in a tangible enough way. To the extent that I feel that Epcot is currently broken, I'm not sure your vision fixes it. In other words, I feel like if Disney were to re-imagine Epcot, there would have to be some expectation that people would say, "Boy, I really want to go to Epcot now because of ..."
 

zandt204

New Member
I like the idea of a central story theme for the lands. Usually when I go to the parks I see families rushing from one ride to the next and I always end up with this overwhelming feeling that the concept of each land becomes lost, and the concepts to me are what make the park. If the Haunted Mansion/POTC/Tom Sawyer Island connection had gone through, I think it might've forced people to step back a little and escape into the world they'd be presented with.

It's slightly harder to connect rides through storylines in other parts (Tomorrowland?) with what they currently have.

I havent been able to go through this whole thread (really ancient computer, sorry) and I apologize if any of this was rehashing.
 

RandySavage

Well-Known Member
And to try to help put this thread back on topic, what does everyone think about creating unifying narrative threads (along the lines of the Lafitte storyline) for not just lands, but entire parks...would it be too restrictive to designers of future additions/renovations?
Peter, I think your site plan / re-imagining of EPCOT was very original - excellent stuff. (I reimagine parks and create new ones via conceptual site plans myself (you can see my work here: http://www.idealbuildout.blogspot.com/))

I think unifying narrative threads are a major positive and add layers to the theme park experience. Frontierland at DLP is a good example - I believe there is a thread (involving the Ravenswoods) that connects the Manor to Big Thunder and would have extended to the never-built Geyser Mountain. Another example is at DisneySea where crates marked "Hightower" are found near Raging Spirits.

I also think cross-park threads are something that should be explored. Disney is beginning to do this with HKDL's Mystic Manor having a connection to DisneySea's Tower of Terror.

A narrative thread that connects six or seven lands across a Disneyland-style park would be something indeed... I am going to think about that and perhaps try to do incorporate it into a future site plan.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
My friend Mr.EPCOT alerted me that the Epcot redesign project got mentioned a few pages back...if any one has any questions or criticisms about, maybe I can answer some of them. I've always shied away form message boards, but I figured it's about time to stop "hiding."

Mr. Sotto, you are one of the Imagineers whose work inspired me to pursue a career in design...many thanks!

And to try to help put this thread back on topic, what does everyone think about creating unifying narrative threads (along the lines of the Lafitte storyline) for not just lands, but entire parks...would it be too restrictive to designers of future additions/renovations?
Welcome Peter, glad to have you! To me, the dedication plaque at DL is the essence of a unifying thread. If you buy into the land as a premise versus a story, it's easier to do establish somehting that is more open ended. For example, Main Street USA is an American "small town" caught in a state of becoming at the dawn of the 20th Century. that is a thread you can build on and informs alot of what you do.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Peter, I think your site plan / re-imagining of EPCOT was very original - excellent stuff. (I reimagine parks and create new ones via conceptual site plans myself (you can see my work here: http://www.idealbuildout.blogspot.com/))

I think unifying narrative threads are a major positive and add layers to the theme park experience. Frontierland at DLP is a good example - I believe there is a thread (involving the Ravenswoods) that connects the Manor to Big Thunder and would have extended to the never-built Geyser Mountain. Another example is at DisneySea where crates marked "Hightower" are found near Raging Spirits.

I also think cross-park threads are something that should be explored. Disney is beginning to do this with HKDL's Mystic Manor having a connection to DisneySea's Tower of Terror.

A narrative thread that connects six or seven lands across a Disneyland-style park would be something indeed... I am going to think about that and perhaps try to do incorporate it into a future site plan.
I'm glad you mentioned SEA because I think the potential for this (hopefully) franchise in the making is an idea that can be used in an almost limitless way. It can be a 'thread' that ties many elements together but be sufficiently in the background when necessary to not create inconsistencies. I like to think of this idea as a cross between hidden mickeys and the KP Adventure at EPCOT. It could not only join lands together in a single park but also whole parks around the world. The potential for this as a franchise across all of Disney's divisions is profound with the proper investment and creative talent.

Just to add, I think the look created by Peter is right on. I have not had a chance to look at all the details but I think the visual aesthetics are perfect and I really hope this is the direction they take it. Great visual appeal and very futuristic.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Peter Schaab

New Member
Slowjack, I actually agree with you to an extent. There are times when I think about revisiting the project to flesh out specific attraction concepts, but I figure that its primary goal (to lay out a general master plan) is, for the most part already achieved. What I'd love to see is for others to pick up where I left off...or take things in their own direction. The site plan and 3D model files, while a little old and probably in need of some clean-up, are available to anyone if they want.

zandt204, I'm also disappointed to see the detail and depth of the parks lost to some guests...but I always try to reassure myself that there are plenty out there that appreciate it (consciously or subconsciously). One of the most significant problems I see today (at least in Walt Disney World) is the tendency of guests to treat their park experience as a rush from one agenda item to another (e.g. "we --have-- to be at Space Mountain by 4:30 and then Liberty Tree by 5:00"). I know money and vacation time can be short, but I wish more guests would "un-schedule" their days and relax.

Very interesting site plans RandySavage. A Star Trek attraction is great anytime in my book! Also, it's good to see someone else appreciated those Oz concepts. What software and reference material (satellite, actual schematics, etc.) did you use? Call me strange, but I was one of those kids that could spend hours staring at site plans...sometimes they're more stimulating to the imagination than perspective views.

Eddie, you're of course absolutely right the Disneyland-style parks have a common thread by virtue of Walt's dedication...I wrote my original post in a hurry before work and didn't fully think the question through. A better question may be: how much more literal of a backstory could, or should, be created? Is there any wisdom in attempting to explain why, for example, Harambe exists only a short walk away from Anandapur?

jt04, the franchise idea is intriguing, although it seems to go against the current company trend of only inserting outside franchises from film and television into the parks. Developing original content for attraction and shows seem to have sadly taken a backseat for now.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
jt04, the franchise idea is intriguing, although it seems to go against the current company trend of only inserting outside franchises from film and television into the parks. Developing original content for attraction and shows seem to have sadly taken a backseat for now.
I think Iger does not see franchises as 'outside' or 'inside' rather he wants any new park adds to be simply a franchise vehicle. I'm advocating the A.C. and S.E.A. be turned into a true home-grown Disney franchise.

There are indications that this is happening and the closure of the AC may be part of the larger plan. There are also rumors that the idea will get utilized at DAK.

I just think it has great potential for Disney. So in this case perhaps they will allow an attraction to grow into a franchise as Pirates proved so successful at doing. And now perhaps the Haunted Mansion too.
 
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