PixarfortheWin
New Member
Is Soarin not considered an E ticket ride? Or Toy Story Midway Mania?
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Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks
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Is Soarin not considered an E ticket ride? Or Toy Story Midway Mania?
sponono88
Well-Known Member
PixarfortheWin
New Member
Yeah, but that's in DCAEddie was talking about DL's E-Tickets.
Oh i just consider the whole area DL, so when he said that i was curious.....but that is just my mistake.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
True enough, but to me it was a big budget rehab, not quite the classic like Indy. Just an opinion.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
It's funny that many people I ask about WOC still think Illuminations or Fantasmic! have more heart and are more emotional overall.
Mansion Butler
Active Member
Anyway, I broke down and spoiled WoC by watching it on YouTube,and it really does seem awesome and I'd love to have it, but I can't imagine liking it more than Illuminations for the exact reason you stated. There's a reason it continually wins awards.
I'm not a big fan of the DHS Fantasmic!, but I wouldn't be surprised if more people liked it, as well. It's pretty popular.
Mansion Butler
Active Member
No, it doesn't. Because WDW doesn't need the effort put in to it to get the crowds that the other parks do. That's just an unfortunate fact of life. Would I like even more expansion shoved in to WDW? Of course I would. Do they need it? Nope, not until the crowds stop coming.
Also, you are wrong about Illuminations.
And an intensive overhaul producing beautiful themed design and a mine cart ride and a large scale dark ride.
Sure, something even bigger and better would be. . . even bigger and better, but you're selling it short. Nevermind the fact that M&Gs have been kicked out for an originally unplanned attraction, and they're being moved to a temporary location.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Isn't the jury out on what will finally end up there? Tom Staggs was looking at it all again and questioning the program according to the press.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Al Lutz weighs in.
Columunist Al Lutz in his answer to a reader about the recent movie based POTC upgrades at both parks, makes some interesting statements about how the Studio favors DL over WDW when it comes to investment and upkeep, a subject we've been discussing at length this last week. I pasted a snippet of the article below but you can read the whole thing.
The more thorough maintenance and TLC that Disneyland gives its attractions compared to the Magic Kingdom has kept this ride in top shape over the past few years, and the difference between the two Pirates rides is only getting more noticeable as the years pass. When you add into this mix the rabid Walt Disney World fan boys who attack anything online they perceive as negative about the resort (to the sheer delight of the management there, whose use these posts to justify further cutbacks) along with the many WDW-focused sites that delete critiques of any kind, it practically insures that the East Coast complex will only continue to fall further behind quality-wise. They get the parks they deserve out there I guess...
http://miceage.micechat.com/mc/mc091510a.htm
I found it equally interesting that the assumption is made that the maintenance cutbacks are in part determined by the fan posts. Is this true? Back in my day maintenance budgets were decided and scheduled based on fiscal year historicals 12 months in advance. Are ALL negative critiques on WDW really deleted? Wow. Is this thread next?
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=625616
There is of course, a difference between moderation and deletion. MiceAge is the most read site and is very vocal about their critiques of just about everything, so I wonder why that in itself would not suffice to call due attention to misgivings in the WDW parks? "Declining by Degrees" is a very well written, but critical assessment of WDW and is surely read and discussed internally at WDW. Unless they dismiss it for some reason. It would be hard to write it better.
The HM BTW got an excellent upgrade and SM just got music added. So things do happen, but not equally. Could it be that WDW has different "needs" than DL and the management makes those priority decisions weighted toward the business aspects, what they can afford to spend, size of property, etc. as they see them and repeat patterns of the tourist vs local audiences? I wonder if guests from NYC are less "sophisticated" than guests from Anaheim or do the local guests come more often as APs so they expect more? Just a thought.
I guess we just get the threads we deserve!
Columunist Al Lutz in his answer to a reader about the recent movie based POTC upgrades at both parks, makes some interesting statements about how the Studio favors DL over WDW when it comes to investment and upkeep, a subject we've been discussing at length this last week. I pasted a snippet of the article below but you can read the whole thing.
The more thorough maintenance and TLC that Disneyland gives its attractions compared to the Magic Kingdom has kept this ride in top shape over the past few years, and the difference between the two Pirates rides is only getting more noticeable as the years pass. When you add into this mix the rabid Walt Disney World fan boys who attack anything online they perceive as negative about the resort (to the sheer delight of the management there, whose use these posts to justify further cutbacks) along with the many WDW-focused sites that delete critiques of any kind, it practically insures that the East Coast complex will only continue to fall further behind quality-wise. They get the parks they deserve out there I guess...
http://miceage.micechat.com/mc/mc091510a.htm
I found it equally interesting that the assumption is made that the maintenance cutbacks are in part determined by the fan posts. Is this true? Back in my day maintenance budgets were decided and scheduled based on fiscal year historicals 12 months in advance. Are ALL negative critiques on WDW really deleted? Wow. Is this thread next?
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=625616
There is of course, a difference between moderation and deletion. MiceAge is the most read site and is very vocal about their critiques of just about everything, so I wonder why that in itself would not suffice to call due attention to misgivings in the WDW parks? "Declining by Degrees" is a very well written, but critical assessment of WDW and is surely read and discussed internally at WDW. Unless they dismiss it for some reason. It would be hard to write it better.
The HM BTW got an excellent upgrade and SM just got music added. So things do happen, but not equally. Could it be that WDW has different "needs" than DL and the management makes those priority decisions weighted toward the business aspects, what they can afford to spend, size of property, etc. as they see them and repeat patterns of the tourist vs local audiences? I wonder if guests from NYC are less "sophisticated" than guests from Anaheim or do the local guests come more often as APs so they expect more? Just a thought.
I guess we just get the threads we deserve!
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
The internet fan community did not exist as it does today back in 1999. I did read the complete guest comment reports weekly for the parks I was involved in, and even responded to some of the letters. You learn alot about what really goes on. Guest comments good and bad represent those who care enough to write in and comment at City Hall. You figure each letter represents many more that had the same experience, but did not bother to write. So we took them seriously for the most part. I used to get hate mail for adding music to Space Mountain.
Don't try this at home. Closed course professional driver.
Long before I worked for the company I had a friend who was a cast member and he told me how seriously they took guest letters at City Hall. I said that was not true, they just file them and maybe give out a free ticket or two. He insisted that they make it all the way to WED! Wow. Maybe they would read an idea? To test the system as a joke, we bet each other that I could not get something changed. I went in as an upset guest and created a complaint just to see if they would actually change something in the park based on one guest letter. It took some time to think of what to complain about.
There had been the first murder at DL, a stabbing at the park of a young man named Yorba. Very badly handled and super sad.
http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Disney/Yorba.html
This was a very tragic situation not easily forgotten. Some time thereafter, I recalled that there was a guest photo op open grave dug on Tom Sawyer's Island with a mock headstone (behind Ft. Wilderness in a graveyard).
So I went to City Hall and politely said that "since real murders really happen at Disneyland that it was in very bad taste to have an open grave at the park. What if the family of that boy saw it? How would they feel? and that if the press found out they would be shamed on the front page. It was cute in it's day but now things may be seen differently." My friend told me they filled it in 2 week later with the headstone reading "Unknown remains found 1805". My first built pre-Imagineering project. So they do read and respond to guest comments.
rsoxguy
Well-Known Member
Great story, and great insight. I'm just left to wonder if the "internet community" has a strong influence on management at Disney. If I were a manager, I think that I would pay more attention to the in-park surveys and complaints. I think that I would view the forum community as being too deeply involved and concerned, if that makes any sense.
devoy1701
Well-Known Member
IllumiNations might be old but it is certainly not boring. You have to appreciate the amazing feat of the musical score and the story of the birth of the planet through the rise of nations and coming together of the world community and how all of those pyro-technics and effects are timed to that wonderful musical score. I have watched that show dozens and dozens of times and it still gives me chills when I see it. It's a surperb show!
Mickey_777
Well-Known Member
So true. When we got a 4th Gate, DL was just getting thier 2nd! We WDW'ers need to stop whining all the time.
mickey2008.1
Well-Known Member
I agree. People that are actually the park and making a comment card are more important than fans that want to be there and have it their way in their magical mind. The things i would take from the internet are trip reports as they give a great inside view of what a guest just went through, even with pictures.
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I think Illuminations simply needs some effects upgrades. Maybe some WoC style fountains during the rather slow middle section.
And while WoC is amazing visually, IMO it doesn't have that emotional impact that ROE has. To me it feels mostly like a "Disney's Greatest Hits" montage.
PixarfortheWin
New Member
Illuminations starts off strong, which is awesome, then there is like a 10 minute down time where the globe moves to the center and just flat out boring after seeing it once, then it picks up again. The music is really hit and miss.
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
Which is why I think some WoC-esque (or at least BarviSEAmo--esque) fountains should be added during that segment to spice it up a little.
100% disagree. The entire musical score from beginning to end is one of, if not the most powerful and sweeping score in all of WDW.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
I do know for a fact that they do care about what the fans have to say on the web. The press now watches it too. They would not have created D23 if they didn't think the community was worth something. I do believe that there is more to making decisions however.
devoy1701
Well-Known Member
That's the cooling of the planets/rising of nations part of the show...it's supposed to be subdued...because it's not only supposed to show dynamic contrast between the initial Chaos opening because the growth of our planet and humanity was no where near as chaotic as the birth of our planet (though I cannot actually confirm this myself), but it's also supposed to divert all of your attention to the globe and make you go what is that....oh it's a globe....well what's those picture on the globe....oh it's people and different animals/countries...
You can insert your own dialogue for that part...but I definitely disagree with your opinion of the musical score...that part is just as amazing as the rest of it.
I've said it a million times, but it always upsets me when people don't actually realize what IllumiNations is about, or what is happening during the show. You get a whole new level of satisfaction out of the presenation when you understand the entire story rather than just thinking: Big Balls of Fire...Globe thing moving out....waterworks....pretty images....lights around the World Showcase....Big Finale...
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