Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Eddie Sotto]

John Olson is also a wonderful character facades designer - he has worked on virtually all of the parks but TDS is really his crowning achievement - particularly in Arabian Coast.

John was let go after HKDL opened - another huge loss. Thankfully his equally wonderful wife Katie still works at WDI. She is probably the best color stylist since Mary Blair - her eye for color is evident in places like Discovery Island at DAK and it's a small world in Hong Kong Disneyland. Katie is a shy person but she was interviewed by the Laughingplace magazine in the past:

http://www.talesfromthelaughingplace.com/TalesfromtheLaughingPlaceIssue12.html

Katie and John are both good friends and Katie worked as a color stylist on Main Street with me. I really respect her. John Olson was wrapped up with the rest of DLP but pitched in and got us all of our character finishes like brick. John is a pretty noteworthy Railfan and had his own series of kits. A great and talented couple.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Harrison "buzz" Price passes away

Buzz Price was the man that did the initial feasibility study and site selection for Disneyland with Walt. His invention of the Disneyland business model was a key part in the history of Disney parks for which he was involved as you read. He passed away a week ago at 89 and his loss will certainly be felt. More info..

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/17/local/la-me-buzz-price-20100817

http://legends.disney.go.com/legends/detail?key=Harrison+Price

Here's a video about him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beWdJCtSY7s&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[4 Park Central]

Joe Rhode is Harrison Hightower III at Tokyo DisneySEA's Tower of Terror.

Rohde, say with me, Rohde.......:ROFLOL:

 

[4 Park Central]

Katie and John are both good friends and Katie worked as a color stylist on Main Street with me. I really respect her. John Olson was wrapped up with the rest of DLP but pitched in and got us all of our character finishes like brick. John is a pretty noteworthy Railfan and had his own series of kits. A great and talented couple.

I had the pleasure to work with John on HKDL. There are few folks I've ever encountered that truly are at the top of the specialized game - John is one of them. What he doesn't know about bricks, concrete etc. can't be worth knowing.

I loved Katie's work on it's a small world at the park. The colors really do "pop". A big step up on the muted colors of Paris' version (sorry!)...

 

[AEfx]

FWIW- Herb Ryman once told me that Walt wanted a big Castle but could not afford it. His first rendering that Walt directed showed something much grander. I wonder what the bankers thought when they showed up and saw the final?

I've said for a long time that (in my opinion) Walt would have *never* stood for DL's castle being so much smaller and "quaint", as compared to WDW's grand version.

That thing would have been bulldozed and rebuilt by the mid-70's (if not sooner) and replaced with one just as grand as WDW's.

Of course, you touch one point on a spire and the interweb crybabies would probably just have their heads spontaneously explode (then again, that might not be such a bad thing, LOL), but DL deserves a more impressive castle.

 

[sublimesting]

It is tough in the sense that if you go the former route, you have Adventureland which is just across the property. I remember being in a meeting once where they were discussing how to differentiate Adventureland from AK. The JC and fake animals was a point of discussion as well. The MK was supposed to be more fantasy, far away places, adventure, character driven and romanticized. The AK with real critters was to be more realistic in tone. Joe Rohde is the perfect Imagineer to inject his own personal passion into that park and to me it works because of that. Joe is a good friend and a great talent. One time we teamed up to present a live Pirate concept for DL NOS. We burst into the executive conference room as Pirates with swords, and held them to Wells and Eisner's throats! How fun was that! Another time we drove all night across the french countryside to see Le Mont St Michel. Joe has a great recollection of both art history (he taught it) and architecture so there is always something to talk about!

I was actually having the same conversation with my wife the other day. You see we are doing our bedroom in andAdventureland theme and our living room in an AK theme. She asked what the difference was. Basically I'll I could say was it's subtle and you'd know it if you saw it. AK is more realistic and "African" whereas AL is a fantastical blend of Polynesian, Carribean and Romanticized Africa. It's hard when we get a piece of decor and try to determine which room it should be in but once were done hopefully it's obvious. In the mean time I purchased a figure of the Orange Bird for the bedroom and put it in a palm tree.

 

[CoffeeJedi]

Hi Eddie!
While we're on the subject of Imagineer cameos in the attractions, is it true that Cumulus Isobar, the rainmaker bailing out his cart in the Tumbleweed scene of Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, is an affectionate caricature of Marc Davis?

Thanks!

 

[Mansion Butler]

I was actually having the same conversation with my wife the other day. You see we are doing our bedroom in andAdventureland theme and our living room in an AK theme. She asked what the difference was. Basically I'll I could say was it's subtle and you'd know it if you saw it. AK is more realistic and "African" whereas AL is a fantastical blend of Polynesian, Carribean and Romanticized Africa. It's hard when we get a piece of decor and try to determine which room it should be in but once were done hopefully it's obvious. In the mean time I purchased a figure of the Orange Bird for the bedroom and put it in a palm tree.

If I'm decorating my room, I want Adventureland.

If I'm designing a theme park. . . I want two different awesome parks, one with each style. :lol:

 

[ChrisFL]

It is tough in the sense that if you go the former route, you have Adventureland which is just across the property. I remember being in a meeting once where they were discussing how to differentiate Adventureland from AK. The JC and fake animals was a point of discussion as well. The MK was supposed to be more fantasy, far away places, adventure, character driven and romanticized. The AK with real critters was to be more realistic in tone. Joe Rohde is the perfect Imagineer to inject his own personal passion into that park and to me it works because of that.

Yes, that is definitely a consideration, probably like when Future World was being developed for EPCOT Center and trying to make sure it was different enough from Tomorrowland.

Again, I'm not faulting the design of AK, it's just personal prefence to me that I like an idealized view of a place. Ok, yes, I have other issues with the layout of AK but that's another conversation.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hi Eddie!
While we're on the subject of Imagineer cameos in the attractions, is it true that Cumulus Isobar, the rainmaker bailing out his cart in the Tumbleweed scene of Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, is an affectionate caricature of Marc Davis?

Thanks!

Good one, but looking at the figure, I'm not sure it's that good of a likeness. Tony would know for sure. It could be. That section of the ride in a way inspired a project i worked on for Knott's "Flash Flood Rapids" a flume ride with lots of indoor show based on the Calico Ghost Town sinking in a flood from a broken dam. I had not been to see the ride in WDW at the time when it was proposed, but certainly there is a flooded town. I must have seen that.

It was the KBF answer to the Western River Expedition.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I was actually having the same conversation with my wife the other day. You see we are doing our bedroom in andAdventureland theme and our living room in an AK theme. She asked what the difference was. Basically I'll I could say was it's subtle and you'd know it if you saw it. AK is more realistic and "African" whereas AL is a fantastical blend of Polynesian, Carribean and Romanticized Africa. It's hard when we get a piece of decor and try to determine which room it should be in but once were done hopefully it's obvious. In the mean time I purchased a figure of the Orange Bird for the bedroom and put it in a palm tree.

All of this in the bedroom? Must be quite a room

 

[sublimesting]

All of this in the bedroom? Must be quite a room

It's where the magic happens.

 

[MiklCraw4d]

I have TONS of respect for Joe Rhode, but I think one of the reasons why I'm less enthralled with AK than the other parks is because it IS more of a realistic view of Africa, India, etc., and not an idealistic view of things.

Compare that to the World Showcase or DisneySea, which has lands and areas based on realism, but they're idealized, brand new looking areas. To me that is what Disney was all about for a long time...places that are better than reality, not replicating it :shrug:

Followers of Imagineering seem to be split on this issue - a lot of people I really respect see the AK style as "story " or so burdened with unnecessary detail that it misses the point entirely of what the G1 WED folks tried to do.

I certainly can see where they're coming from but, in the case of DAK, I disagree. I think it's in part because I'm a little obsessed with texture, and Harambe and Anandapur are loaded with that. I'm also obsessed with detail. But I think the discussion also points to the difficult line that Disney is forced to tread - if it had "Disneyfied" Africa and Asia too much, it would get criticism for some kind of hegemonic patronizing attitude and for "sanitizing" what are supposed to be real-world places. On the other hand, even in their current state they're still amalgams of many different places and cultures and are extremely Disneyfied in their own way, so they irk those looking for Adventureland and also those who want true authenticity (of course, those cultural critics obsessed with semiotics and authenticity will never be satisfied with Disney, ever).

But I do think that Adventureland (and DisneySea) is supposed to evoke a zeitgeist that comes from fiction - old films, pulp novels, and the like. It combines elements from around the world that are bound only by their "exotic" nature. Harame and Anandapur are supposed to be "real" places, even though they still blend different nations and cultures. You can start to see this more textured approach in the later World Showcase pavilions, especially Morocco.

I think there's room for both styles.

 

[HMF]

Followers of Imagineering seem to be split on this issue - a lot of people I really respect see the AK style as "story " or so burdened with unnecessary detail that it misses the point entirely of what the G1 WED folks tried to do.

Ironically' this very topic came up in one of my podcast episodes. I personally don't see Animal Kingdom too full of "Story " at least not in the sense of the forced backstories on the more recent rides.

 

[Mansion Butler]

I think there's room for both styles.

Agreed. It makes me love Adventureland and Animal Kingdom both, for different reasons.

I'm actually not the biggest fan of the postcard look of Epcot, but I don't hate it.

 

[muteki]

Ironically' this very topic came up in one of my podcast episodes. I personally don't see Animal Kingdom too full of "Story " at least not in the sense of the forced backstories on the more recent rides.

Kilimanjaro Safaris vs. Jungle Cruise is a good example.

KS just tries too hard, and JC, by being simpler, does better by it IMO.

 

[Mansion Butler]

Kilimanjaro Safaris vs. Jungle Cruise is a good example.

KS just tries too hard, and JC, by being simpler, does better by it IMO.

I could so without the Little Red adventure, but as far as depth of theming, give me KS. It's the kind of growth I expect as the company gets more experienced with theme park design, and don't always see.

Jungle Skippers are cooler, though.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Followers of Imagineering seem to be split on this issue - a lot of people I really respect see the AK style as "story " or so burdened with unnecessary detail that it misses the point entirely of what the G1 WED folks tried to do.

I certainly can see where they're coming from but, in the case of DAK, I disagree. I think it's in part because I'm a little obsessed with texture, and Harambe and Anandapur are loaded with that. I'm also obsessed with detail. But I think the discussion also points to the difficult line that Disney is forced to tread - if it had "Disneyfied" Africa and Asia too much, it would get criticism for some kind of hegemonic patronizing attitude and for "sanitizing" what are supposed to be real-world places. On the other hand, even in their current state they're still amalgams of many different places and cultures and are extremely Disneyfied in their own way, so they irk those looking for Adventureland and also those who want true authenticity (of course, those cultural critics obsessed with semiotics and authenticity will never be satisfied with Disney, ever).

But I do think that Adventureland (and DisneySea) is supposed to evoke a zeitgeist that comes from fiction - old films, pulp novels, and the like. It combines elements from around the world that are bound only by their "exotic" nature. Harame and Anandapur are supposed to be "real" places, even though they still blend different nations and cultures. You can start to see this more textured approach in the later World Showcase pavilions, especially Morocco.

I think there's room for both styles.

Agree. I see DAK as a better "True life Adventure" documentary reference than Adventureland is. Compared to the rest of Disney fictional epics, the wildlife docs captured animals where they live, and like the "People and Places" films are filled with ethnic culture. They brought you an appreciation of the details of the desert or an insect. Those films made us see the world in a new way. AK is filled with detail because it's "real world" premise dictates it. A writer can only create so much story, but creation is all encompassing and I'm glad they are trying to bring us closer to the wonder of reality.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It's where the magic happens.

Just ask Anita Bryant.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I was watching the documentary on the making of the movie "20,000 Leagues Under he Sea" this weekend. The show points out that 20k was the most expensive film ever made in Hollywood at the time and that it was way over budget. To top that Walt was trying to build Disneyland at the same time. Everything was going over budget and was an experiment. The Squid fight had to be redone and that alone was 250k in 1953 dollars. They were out of money and the bankers had to come see what they had shot, but gave them another Million. The movie cost 5-6 million in the end and was #2 at the box office. It's success helped pay for Disneyland. (The doc is on the double DVD.) Walt was a gambler.