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Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks
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The look on my daughters face on main street. The way my wife laughs/screams on Tower of Terror. The fact that we almost always do the parks with at least three generations. Watching families turn off the cell phones and enjoy themselves as a group.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Wow. A Celebrity guest! Welcome Kevin Yee from MiceAge! We discuss your articles often over here. (I always wanted to be the "locus" of attention!). I hope our thread is not "declining by degrees"! All that French simulation stuff kicks us up back up about 50 notches! Awesome. Thanks for posting.
This is more on what he's talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation
KevinYee
Well-Known Member
Nonsense. The only celebrity here has designed one of the best rides of my childhood (Soap Box Racers), recreated the Factor's Walk Esplanade at NOS, and proposed the only possible way to make sense of HM/TSI existing side by side. We all benefit from YOUR wisdom, not my blatherings
HMF
Well-Known Member
Just to play devils advocate here. If we are going to thematically tie every single ride together there are examples of several inconsistencies everywhere. Like why is this Attraction next to that one etc. I mean each land has an overall theme and you must stick to that theme. (Which Tomorrowland seems to have forgotten due to inconsistent theming.) But there really does not need to have everything to do with the thing next to it as long as it works aesthetically and fits within that theme. Not that the Jean Lafitte thing was not interesting. (on the contrary' If/When I am in WDI I would like to embellish it a little as a nod to my mentor.)Nonsense. The only celebrity here has designed one of the best rides of my childhood (Soap Box Racers), recreated the Factor's Walk Esplanade at NOS, and proposed the only possible way to make sense of HM/TSI existing side by side. We all benefit from YOUR wisdom, not my blatherings
Mansion Butler
Active Member
Nice to know I can be gone for like a year and this thread is still going.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Nonsense. The only celebrity here has designed one of the best rides of my childhood (Soap Box Racers), recreated the Factor's Walk Esplanade at NOS, and proposed the only possible way to make sense of HM/TSI existing side by side. We all benefit from YOUR wisdom, not my blatherings
Well "blather" on, we'd love to hear more of your insights! Especially on the new F'land at WDW. Remember, whatever "wisdom" I may be accused of, it's ten years old (when I quit WDI) and you are more in the know. Always enjoy reading your analysis.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Me too. I've been outsourcing my comments to a Disneyphile in India for the last 6 months, you'd never know. Great to be back!
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
For me, it's about the artistry and design of everything in WDW. No other place is so singularly and uniformly designed as Disney parks (by humans, at least - nature does a pretty good job of this). The idea that you could walk from place to place and the environment transforms itself as you move, and that everything you experience as you go from place to place was carefully designed and arranged that way, is magical. I like collecting WED/WDI concept art (on my computer), and it's amazing to see how some artist's sketch or painting of a setting is brought to life in 3 dimensions to become an immersive environmental experience. Cities and most other constructions don't do this - typically dozens or hundreds of separately conceived ideas conflict and compete for your attention, but Disney design is all singularly designed and presented to form a cohesive magical experience.
Senses play a part in this too, and it's fascinating to see how sometimes the Imagineers have toyed with the subconscious and non-visual senses to create that experience as well. Like how (I suspect) the HM Doom Buggies were designed to exploit one's inner claustrophobia and limit one's range of sight, thereby increasing the fear of what you're not seeing. Or how it seems like Spaceship Earth uses the orientation of your vehicle to imply the direction of your movement through time, or how the Disneyland Railroad's train horn works as a sort of "audial berm" that can be heard throughout the park as a reminder that you are within a Magic Kingdom. I don't even know if half of these are deliberate but it sure is fascinating to mull over them.
I guess I get a kick out of that kinda stuff. :lol:
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Very well said. I'm not sure how deliberate these things are in a conscious way, but your observations help us realize the power of these design tools. they are elements of the total experience. I especially like the idea of how the Doombuggie creates it's own anxiety derived from what you cannot see. Very good point. I can recall feeling that in the ride.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Imagine the designs of Progress City and EPCOT (circa 1969) compared to what the Japanese were up to at EXPO 70 in Osaka. They were truly on crack and were on the edge of the edge. I love this fair. This was Tomorrowland. Check it out-rageous.
http://pinktentacle.com/2010/03/photos-expo-70/
http://pinktentacle.com/2010/03/photos-expo-70/
Mansion Butler
Active Member
There are so many things. I stare at this question trying to think and can't come up with an answer too quickly.
Really, it's probably the parks themselves. Walking down Mainstreet and hearing horse hooves and seeing the castle takes me across so many great memories and experiences so quickly, it's pretty overwhelming at times, even when I'm there every day as a job.
As a random list of other things that I feel like get me almost every time, no matter how many times: flying over the orange groves and then the desert in Soarin; this part in Illuminations; the goodnight part of the Magic Kingdom; the Liki Tikis (yes, I'm serious); the love scene portion of the final montage in the Great Movie Ride.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
No one has ever mentioned that great clip in our discussions. I completely forgot about it. Great post, thanks.
DougK
Well-Known Member
While of course I never met Walt Disney I am old enough to have watched him on TV every week when I was a child. Living in Pennsylvania and being of relatively modest means I knew my parents would never be able to take me to Disneyland, but seeing those weekly shows at least made me aware that place existed. And maybe unlike most 10 year olds (or maybe not, I don't know) I was not anxious to go to Disneyland because Mickey Mouse lived there, I was anxious to go because Walt Disney "lived" there.
Then not long after his death at the end of 1966 we all started hearing about an East Coast Disneyland and some kind of experimental city you could actually live in! And of course there was Life magazine and still the Sunday night TV show was going strong. Then later I heard they built the Magic Kingdom on the second level, and got the dirt to cover the first level and create the second level from digging out the Seven Seas Lagoon and connecting it with a real lake, Bay Lake. And they had these "utilidors" underneath the whole place! Kind of like science fiction but real! Who else but Walt Disney could have thought of all of this?
Anyway all of that swirled around in my head for years until I finally got to set foot in Walt Disney World for the first time in the late 90s. And as I set foot into the Magic Kingdom I was overwhelmed by happiness. But at the same time I felt this strong emotional sadness because I knew Walt Disney never saw this in person. And still to this day every time I set foot there I feel sad for Walt never having seen his World fully realized. And sad that EPCOT, as great as it is, became a theme park and not a city.
Luckily the wonderful upbeat feelings I get when I am at my happy place always allow me to overcome my sadness for Walt, but it is still there to this day. It is this strong sense of emotion that makes me want to go to Walt Disney World more than anywhere else. Nowhere else could ever make me react so strongly.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Thank you for those heartfelt sentiments. It must have been something for you to have waited all those years to finally visit. Wow. It is truly unfortunate that Walt never saw WDW completed. I think all of us feel the same way. Well said and again, thank you.
DougK
Well-Known Member
Yes I waited quite awhile, I was in my 30s on a business trip in 1995 the first time I finally visited Walt Disney World. Then I came again in 1999 with my son, my father and my then-wife. Since then I have remarried and visited 15 or so times with my current wife, bringing my son along again one time a couple of years ago. He's a teenager now and actually turned down a trip last year (go figure, he wanted to stay at his home [my ex's] with friends, it's a tough age to understand that's for sure!).
Anyway my current wife and I became passholders and try to come 3-4 times a year, so I feel like I have been making up for lost time. I'd say my wife has become a Disney lover too, she may not be QUITE into it like I am but she is getting there! It's been fun to see her get into the details of the place and learn to appreciate what they do there on a deeper emotional level. It is certainly OUR favorite place!
And Eddie, thanks for the great thread on a great website (thanks to you too, Steve). While much of the website can be hard to take at times with lots of moaning and complaining (don't get me wrong, legitimate criticism is fine) this thread is a respite and offers wonderful insight into how an Imagineer (OK, former Imagineer) thinks. I'm sure I speak for many here in saying we appreciate your time posting.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
I know I've said this before, but when I was growing up there was no way to learn about Imagineering much less talk to an Imagineer. I would have killed to be able to ask questions or have some insight. Having had the opportunity to have a career there, it's great to be able to allow access on this thread for those who are interested in a constructive discussion about life on the inside. Thanks for posting!
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The Two Brothers sequence from The American Adventure. Absolutely heart wrenching.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
You may already know this, but the parts of the two brothers were played by imagineers John Olson and Jeff Burke.
HMF
Well-Known Member
For those who don't know Jeff Burke was Show Producer for Frontierland at DLP.
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