Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Eddie Sotto]

Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone -Joni Mitchell

BTW' Eddie I know that there is no "Typical Day" at Imagineering (Tony Baxter and Kathy Mangum have said this ad nauseum.) but how exactly do you know what you will be doing that day. Is there a schedule or something?

I think it's pretty typical to the way most companies work, but the content isn't. You have projects you are assigned to and hours that you are allowed to spend on those projects. There is a "timecard" so to speak. You try to manage those hours to accomplish the tasks assigned. There are layers of management to track your progress and ask you continually how you are doing in this regard. this serves more than one purpose as it helps the company know how much time and hours to allot for a given type of task. If you are running behind they may find you more hours (or tell you to hurry up), if you are ahead of schedule you tell them that too. They Love that. Sometimes the constant meetings and reporting can eat up your hours but they account for some of that. If you run out of projects, you need to find one or else you are billing your time to what is called "overhead", (meaning you are dead weight). That is kind of unavoidable as there will be reasons projects stall and you have no idea when it will restart and the team does not want to commit you to something else, but no one wants to be on "overhead" for extended lengths of time. You don't want to be on some spreadsheet where somebody sees your name and says "How come Sotto has been sitting around for 3 weeks, look at what that costs us! $4.69 an hour!". You want to be hustling jobs and in demand with those producers in management so you are working continually. That's kind of the way it works.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

WDW F'land expansion

I just excerpted this from Orlando Sentinel's Daily Disney.

http://thedailydisney.com/blog/2010/08/a-few-more-words-about-fantasyland/


The more than $200 million addition to Universal’s Islands of Adventure theme park powered the resort to a 2 percent attendance gain during the second quarter, its first quarterly increase in two years. Attendance at Disney World sank 2 percent during a similar period.

 

[HMF]

I just excerpted this from Orlando Sentinel's Daily Disney.

http://thedailydisney.com/blog/2010/08/a-few-more-words-about-fantasyland/


The more than $200 million addition to Universal’s Islands of Adventure theme park powered the resort to a 2 percent attendance gain during the second quarter, its first quarterly increase in two years. Attendance at Disney World sank 2 percent during a similar period.

I know it may seem a tad hypocritical to be rooting against WDW but the better Potter does the closer Burbank will pay attention to the problems in WDW. Thus more work for WED.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I'm just curious to see how FLE turns out. If it is spectacular, Disney may be returning to its old Imagineering standards. If they cheap out a la Toy Story Playland in Paris, it could be the end of an era as we have known it.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

:sohappy: I know it may seem a tad hypocritical to be rooting against WDW but the better Potter does the closer Burbank will pay attention to the problems in WDW. Thus more work for WED.

It seems that way and so be it. But that is not why I posted the article. I posted that article because it takes guts to stop a bulldozer midstream and rethink something. It's expensive to stop the machine from producing things. Hats off to Tom Staggs for taking another look at the project to be sure it's the right product. It's his portfolio of work now and I admire him for taking ownership of the last administrations efforts (right or wrong) and not just "rubber stamping" something. That shows that he values the right answer. Universal is sending an attendance message with HP, and so this is Tom's best near term weapon in hand to best deal with that and the needs of MK.

 

[HMF]

It seems that way and so be it. But that is not why I posted the article. I posted that article because it takes guts to stop a bulldozer midstream and rethink something. It's expensive to stop the machine from producing things. Hats off to Tom Staggs for taking another look at the project to be sure it's the right product. It's his portfolio of work now and I admire him for taking ownership of the last administrations efforts (right or wrong) and not just "rubber stamping" something. That shows that he values the right answer. Universal is sending an attendance message with HP, and so this is Tom's best near term weapon in hand to best deal with that and the needs of MK.

Oh' don't take it the wrong way' Eddie. I am very happy with Tom Staggs for re-assessing the project. I just want what is best for the parks. The problem is that WDW Management seems content with just letting things sit and not improve or build state of the art attractions. If Tom Staggs is successful in getting WDW serious in competing with Potter I am 100% behind him. This is more a criticism of Team Disney Orlando than Staggs.I probably should have phrased the post differently.I only really glanced at the article so I mis-interpreted the context.(I was tired at the time.) Now that I have fully read it I see what you were getting at and I applaud Staggs very much. That said I hope he checks out Potter so he can see that Universal means business. I want WDW to succeed' I really do. the problem is that it is not and I am hoping for Potter to be the wake-up call. This is a great first step. But there is a long way to go. Sorry for the mis-understanding.

 

[jt04]

It seems that way and so be it. But that is not why I posted the article. I posted that article because it takes guts to stop a bulldozer midstream and rethink something. It's expensive to stop the machine from producing things. Hats off to Tom Staggs for taking another look at the project to be sure it's the right product. It's his portfolio of work now and I admire him for taking ownership of the last administrations efforts (right or wrong) and not just "rubber stamping" something. That shows that he values the right answer. Universal is sending an attendance message with HP, and so this is Tom's best near term weapon in hand to best deal with that and the needs of MK.

People here doubt this but I think the mouse needs to worry just as much if not more about the new Legoland opening down the road next year. I realize Legoland is not a big concern to Disney in SoCal but I think it will impact the MK's numbers at least as much as Potterland has. IMO of course.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

People here doubt this but I think the mouse needs to worry just as much if not more about the new Legoland opening down the road next year. I realize Legoland is not a big concern to Disney in SoCal but I think it will impact the MK's numbers at least as much as Potterland has. IMO of course.

Interesting. Why do you think it will be that powerful? Locals vs. Tourists? Do you think small kids will demand to go there? Love to hear your hunches.

 

[xdan0920]

Eddie, I have a question for you regarding discounts. It has become a source of contention on these boards about whether or not the discounts are a good thing.

My stance is that the heavy discounts are bad for WDW. I know they are bringing in guests during typically down times by offering free dining and such, but in my opinion downtimes are necessary. It gives WDW a chance to undergo major refurbs to popular attractions that desperately need them. Expedition Everest comes to mind.

Then there is the matter of creating this discount mentality among guests. If guests become to accustomed to major discounts then they will not book without them. This kind of cycle leads to lower revenues, which leads to less money to reinvest into the parks.

And that's not to mention the issue of if free dining is negatively impacting the dining experience at WDW.

 

[jt04]

Interesting. Why do you think it will be that powerful? Locals vs. Tourists? Do you think small kids will demand to go there? Love to hear your hunches.

Yes, I think mainly it will be a hit with locals and will draw young families away from the MK. That is why the FLE is critical to WDW's bottom line. They will need to win those folks back.

Now if the parks outside of Disney get together to create a packaged ticket program then that will create a whole other level of competition for the mouse. Interesting times for sure in central Florida.

 

[thehowiet]

Now if the parks outside of Disney get together to create a packaged ticket program then that will create a whole other level of competition for the mouse. Interesting times for sure in central Florida.

Doesn't this already exist with the Orlando Flex Ticket? The Orlando Flex Ticket allows 14 consecutive days of unlimited admission to both Universal parks, Wet n Wild, Sea World, Aquatica, and Busch Gardens.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, I think mainly it will be a hit with locals and will draw young families away from the MK. That is why the FLE is critical to WDW's bottom line. They will need to win those folks back

The perpetual problem in Orlando is that almost nobody will go and not visit the Magic Kingdom. To a lot of tourists that is Disney World, and they will not forgo that park for a one day visit to a smaller park about 45 minutes south of US 192.

Doesn't this already exist with the Orlando Flex Ticket? The Orlando Flex Ticket allows 14 consecutive days of unlimited admission to both Universal parks, Wet n Wild, Sea World, Aquatica, and Busch Gardens.

Yes, but at the moment the Flex Ticket is aimed at British tourists.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, I have a question for you regarding discounts. It has become a source of contention on these boards about whether or not the discounts are a good thing.

My stance is that the heavy discounts are bad for WDW. I know they are bringing in guests during typically down times by offering free dining and such, but in my opinion downtimes are necessary. It gives WDW a chance to undergo major refurbs to popular attractions that desperately need them. Expedition Everest comes to mind.

Then there is the matter of creating this discount mentality among guests. If guests become to accustomed to major discounts then they will not book without them. This kind of cycle leads to lower revenues, which leads to less money to reinvest into the parks.

And that's not to mention the issue of if free dining is negatively impacting the dining experience at WDW.

Does the Apple Store have big sale signs in the window? No. You buy things at the price they ask because you have to fight to get your iPad or iPhone4. They are special and valuable. So was Disney at one time. When I was a kid, I went once a year because we could only afford to go once. I saved green stamps to go. I could not sleep the night before with my DL map plotting each move. It was the event of the year. Now my kids are sick of the parks because they have the AP and have seen it too much. What a crime I committed. I killed the park by making it as common as a mall visit for my kids. "Special" is the next endangered species.

They have discounted their way into a situation where the parks are a commodity. Especially in SoCal with AP's. I know they have to lure people in, but to me, the notion of premium product is something to be nurtured. According to Al Lutz, most guests are AP's, essentially there for "free" and don't spend anything significant. That must drive them nuts. I know they must be aware of this and will deal with it.

 

[misterID]

I'd have to disagree. It would be nice to run a business like Apple, where your high end product is at a set price and that's it. But Disney isn't that kind of premium experience, at least not anymore. And really, I don't know if it ever was really. If they relied on the Apple crowd to visit the parks they would sink. They can't depend on just one certain class of the public, they depend on all of them.

Disney does offer a premium experience for those that want one, but also, and I've always credited Disney with this, they offer different experiences for families on all different budgets.

I knew the ticket increase recently would lead to another series of discounts. And I find it hard to believe that if it wasn't working, if it wasn't putting money in their pocket, they would keep doing it.

And tbh, Disney is still a special and premium experience for people who save for an entire year to be able to go. And its still a premium experience, imo, to be able to afford an AP nowadays. I'm very lucky that I can. Those discounts are affording people to stay an extra day or so, that wouldn't otherwise. It's even putting people in a resort who probably would have stayed off property, or even would have originally planned just a day trip, like families used to do. That's a good thing, imo.

I've heard DL is doing good on profits, so people are spending money. Not the type of money foriegn tourists spend at WDW (which is a lot) but I haven't heard that they're losing money. And they're doing a good job at getting APers spending money with the glow party and the like.

I actually see the Disney parks as a rare success in this recession, because of how they've operated the discounts.

If they were able to operate as successfully without the discounts, I'm pretty sure they would.

 

[xdan0920]

Does the Apple Store have big sale signs in the window? No. You buy things at the price they ask because you have to fight to get your iPad or iPhone4. They are special and valuable. So was Disney at one time. When I was a kid, I went once a year because we could only afford to go once. I saved green stamps to go. I could not sleep the night before with my DL map plotting each move. It was the event of the year. Now my kids are sick of the parks because they have the AP and have seen it too much. What a crime I committed. I killed the park by making it as common as a mall visit for my kids. "Special" is the next endangered species.

They have discounted their way into a situation where the parks are a commodity. Especially in SoCal with AP's. I know they have to lure people in, but to me, the notion of premium product is something to be nurtured. According to Al Lutz, most guests are AP's, essentially there for "free" and don't spend anything significant. That must drive them nuts. I know they must be aware of this and will deal with it.

I agree with you. I also believe the idea of premium should be nurtured. For me WDW is still about a once a year experience so it is very special to me to be there. So I count myself lucky.

What I am curious to hear from you though is how the lack of downtimes lead to the lack of real solid refurbs. If the parks are just as busy in February as they are in june, how can they take down attractions to get them back in tip top shape.

 

[xdan0920]

I'd have to disagree. It would be nice to run a business like Apple, where your high end product is at a set price and that's it. But Disney isn't that kind of premium experience, at least not anymore. And really, I don't know if it ever was really. If they relied on the Apple crowd to visit the parks they would sink. They can't depend on just one certain class of the public, they depend on all of them.

Disney does offer a premium experience for those that want one, but also, and I've always credited Disney with this, they offer different experiences for families on all different budgets.

I knew the ticket increase recently would lead to another series of discounts. And I find it hard to believe that if it wasn't working, if it wasn't putting money in their pocket, they would keep doing it.

And tbh, Disney is still a special and premium experience for people who save for an entire year to be able to go. And its still a premium experience, imo, to be able to afford an AP nowadays. I'm very lucky that I can. Those discounts are affording people to stay an extra day or so, that wouldn't otherwise. It's even putting people in a resort who probably would have stayed off property, or even would have originally planned just a day trip, like families used to do. That's a good thing, imo.

I've heard DL is doing good on profits, so people are spending money. Not the type of money foriegn tourists spend at WDW (which is a lot) but I haven't heard that they're losing money. And they're doing a good job at getting APers spending money with the glow party and the like.

I actually see the Disney parks as a rare success in this recession, because of how they've operated the discounts.

If they were able to operate as successfully without the discounts, I'm pretty sure they would.

Well thats the thing. With the way they have aggressively been discounting, it makes it hard to ween people off the discounts. They would be taking a short term hit, but over the long term they would be positively impacting the company. This kind of short term panic thinking by WDW really has me worried. It is simple to me. If you pay a discount price, you get a discount experience. I do not want WDW to be a discount experience.

 

[paul436]

Disney does offer a premium experience for those that want one, but also, and I've always credited Disney with this, they offer different experiences for families on all different budgets.

I agree. Disney shouldn't just be for the "rich and famous" so to speak. If you have enough money to go to WDW mutliple times a year, you are very lucky. Most do not. You also can choose not to go as frequently to keep it special as well.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Price points and Discounts.

I agree that Disney should be for everyone and it is.

Apple offers unique products at different price points. iPods range in cost from the shuffle to the touch. MacMinis are designed for students., Pros for professionals and the prices vary widely, etc. The iPhone can be 99 bucks of 899. They address their audience with an array of choices at regular prices. The All Star Resort or Caribbean Beach product are designed for a 3 star experience, the Boardwalk 4 or 5. That's all good because it's inclusive and each product is special for what it is. Packages offer a better rate because you are buying in volume as in a week, etc. You don't erode the value of the core experience.

What I'm addressing is the question of discounting, having your product visibly "marked down", (including merch outlet stores) which eventually erodes the idea of the regular admission price ever being worth it. Having many offerings at different price points to meet the needs of many is fine and both companies do that. I'm just pointing out that Apple does a better job of holding to the price points of their products and they do "price drops", but that's usually when a model becomes outdated. The AP thing in Anaheim has become challenging as there are more free guests than paid and while they are not losing money directly, the capacity of the park is taken up with low margin guests that don't spend enough while you have to manage the crowds.

Being able to buy a monthly payment plan for an AP gets you Disneyland for 15 bucks a month. Once you've done that, you'll never go back to $75. for a day.

 

[misterID]

Well thats the thing. With the way they have aggressively been discounting, it makes it hard to ween people off the discounts. They would be taking a short term hit, but over the long term they would be positively impacting the company. This kind of short term panic thinking by WDW really has me worried. It is simple to me. If you pay a discount price, you get a discount experience. I do not want WDW to be a discount experience.

Disney will never be a discount experience. And it really is easy to ween people off when there's not a recession.

I understand what Eddie's saying.

But there are some people who want WDW and DL to basically be a private club and that's just never going to happen.

I find it hard to believe that this is just a knee jerk reaction to the recession. Disney business, I have to say, is very well thought out, researched and planned. Not a bunch of suits panicking around a board table.

You can't compare theme parks and resorts to any other business type, imo, or just tourism in general. It's a whole different beast. It may not be about the initial hit. It might be about keeping Disney the experience that it is with profits they're used to. Times change.

That's just my opinion, anyway.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Disney will never be a discount experience. And it really is easy to ween people off when there's not a recession.

I understand what Eddie's saying.

But there are some people who want WDW and DL to basically be a private club and that's just never going to happen.

I find it hard to believe that this is just a knee jerk reaction to the recession. Disney business, I have to say, is very well thought out, researched and planned. Not a bunch of suits panicking around a board table.

You can't compare theme parks and resorts to any other business type, imo, or just tourism in general. It's a whole different beast. It may not be about the initial hit. It might be about keeping Disney the experience that it is with profits they're used to. Times change.

That's just my opinion, anyway.

True. I very much respect their process and it's diligence. Sometimes to their own detriment however, in that you can overthink something because you're awash with research to consider. They are very methodical about everything they do and usually do so with an astonishing command of historical data. When I was there (that's all I can reference) the thinking was more short term and driven by corporate edicts of almost unattainable growth, so as informed as it was, there was an air of desperation in the room. that driver does not seem to be there these days. The driver now is likely to be the economy and triage of tourism sagging, etc. Hence the discounts which hopefully are temporary.