Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

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TP2000

Well-Known Member
They have discounted their way into a situation where the parks are a commodity. Especially in SoCal with AP's. I know they have to lure people in, but to me, the notion of premium product is something to be nurtured. According to Al Lutz, most guests are AP's, essentially there for "free" and don't spend anything significant. That must drive them nuts. I know they must be aware of this and will deal with it.

I think they started this summer with their Fastpass setup for World of Color. I experienced it this past weekend when I had out of town family visiting and we went to Disneyland and DCA. We spent the entire day at DCA on Monday because the Fastpass setup forced us to. We had fun, however.

They keep raising prices each year, and that helps. But with the monthly payment plan, it really only pads the bank account more than it thins the ranks of APs. I think we'll see more of these types of World of Color Fastpass logistical setups that require you to commit a full day to see or do something.

I share your frustration at seeing the park become a shopping mall or local community center that becomes boring. I remember not being able to sleep the night before an annual Disneyland visit. I don't think locals get that anymore. You have to be from at least Portland or Salt Lake City, more than a full day's drive from Disneyland, to get that level of excitement now. :(

And could you really use S&H Green Stamps for Disneyland tickets? I remember helping my mom lick them and paste them into booklets, but we only seemed to get toasters and blenders in return. Never a day at Disneyland!
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Evolution of the experience

I share your frustration at seeing the park become a shopping mall or local community center that becomes boring.

There is something interesting in all of this for us to think of as designers. The changing dynamic of how the parks or even the Downtown Disneys are experienced does allow for new innovation as the AP holder uses them in a different way. They may come for dinner and no rides or come and go more frequently. That's the way our family uses the passes. So what can you offer to these guests to keep them from "burning out" on those magical environments? I for one, never get tired of sitting at Coke Corner with a corn dog and that piano player. My arteries will collapse first. So keeping the whole thing fresh and seeing what they would want to buy given the fact that they did not have to pay admission. A worthy challenge. Al Lutz has laid it all out there. So maybe it's our thinking that needs to change to meet the evolving uses of these places.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
You thought the rails at Alice were bad?
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyla...tower-terror-ride-california-adventure-3.html
I hope OSHA does not make anything out of this.

I don't know the details of what really happened or where this person had drinks, but it seems that it could be about the sale of alcohol on the premises and how much you serve someone. I know that restaurants are pretty diligent about calling cabs and comping them for those who drink too much. Booze has insanely high profit margins, but the downside is the socially offensive potential of it, especially when you are asking those who drink to patiently wait for a place in a "down in front" festival environment for a show. No amount of safety equipment prevents accidents when your guest is bombed and you make it easy. They have managed booze pretty well in EPCOT especially in the cases where it is served in moderation as an accessory to a meal. You guys can comment and weigh in. The heat must have an effect. The old amusement parks had this issue with the sailors that stood up on the rides and die, etc and or puke. Disneyland was the solution to that.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
I don't know the details of what really happened or where this person had drinks, but it seems that it could be about the sale of alcohol on the premises and how much you serve someone. I know that restaurants are pretty diligent about calling cabs and comping them for those who drink too much. Booze has insanely high profit margins, but the downside is the socially offensive potential of it, especially when you are asking those who drink to patiently wait for a place in a "down in front" festival environment for a show. No amount of safety equipment prevents accidents when your guest is bombed and you make it easy. They have managed booze pretty well in EPCOT especially in the cases where it is served in moderation as an accessory to a meal. You guys can comment and weigh in. The heat must have an effect. The old amusement parks had this issue with the sailors that stood up on the rides and die, etc and or puke. Disneyland was the solution to that.
I am not expecting this case to go very far but we have seen these kinds of incidents in the past where people have been injured' died' etc due to things that they were at fault for. Mission: Space' The Skyway etc. Granted' Mission Space is trickier because of the ages and conditions of those affected but Disney cannot be held liable because of the ridiculous amount of warning signs in the queue.
 

MiklCraw4d

Member
Interesting. Why do you think it will be that powerful? Locals vs. Tourists? Do you think small kids will demand to go there? Love to hear your hunches.

I've got to agree on Legoland - I do think it'll make a difference. Not only with young families from out of town, but with locals. Especially locals on the north side of town who want a place to hang out but don't want to constantly be driving through the crucible of I-4 to get to WDW. Legoland might just have the draw that Cypress Gardens didn't, and I think it'll become a hangout for locals if the AP price is right.

I also have to say, I never wanted to go to any non-Disney park when I was a kid, but I would have KILLED to go to Legoland. Never underestimate the power of Lego. We would have definitely carved off a day of our Disney itinerary for that.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I also have to say, I never wanted to go to any non-Disney park when I was a kid, but I would have KILLED to go to Legoland. Never underestimate the power of Lego. We would have definitely carved off a day of our Disney itinerary for that.

It was my favorite toy as a kid. Hands down. My kids did not like the park that much. At 6 yr's old they would look at the line and say "the rides are not worth the wait". I hope the new Lego park is more fun and has better capacity.
 

SeaCastle

Well-Known Member
What is the most emotional aspect of WDW to you? What gets to you no matter how many times you see it?

American Adventure, without a doubt- especially the Golden Dreams part. At that time, I truly feel proud to be an American. The montage at the end of Hall of Presidents struck a chord with me too, during the GWB/9-11 part. Maybe I'm just sentimental, but both shows are just so spectacular. The technological complexity of the American Adventure is simply stunning, and the Imagineers managed to give these multimedia presentation a heart, something that lacks at many other shows on property.

I believe it was Martin who said that WDI could have made an American Adventure-type show for any country, and it would've come out just as great. I'll have to disagree there, since the story of America is simply unprecedented in world history. The fact that the show highlights our low points in history works as a great dramatic tool to show how those events helped shape the good 'ole US of A. :)
 

_Scar

Active Member
What is the most emotional aspect of WDW to you? What gets to you no matter how many times you see it?


Nostalgia. All my great vacation memories have came from WDW and I relive them each year and at the same time create new memories.


I can always count on Splash Mountain, Dinosaur, Soarin', and Rock'n'Roller Coaster to really bring out past memories specifically. OH, and the great Disney water parks. :)
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
What is the most emotional aspect of WDW to you? What gets to you no matter how many times you see it?
Nostalgia and the sense of pure joy and feeling of enjoying life. To be honest had I not visited WDW when I was 9 my Teen years would have been much worse. I think of it as my home almost as much as my house thus explaining how passionate I am about it which can be a good or bad thing depending on your point of view. Though of course at times it is a love-hate relationship.
 

MiklCraw4d

Member
They have managed booze pretty well in EPCOT especially in the cases where it is served in moderation as an accessory to a meal. You guys can comment and weigh in. The heat must have an effect. The old amusement parks had this issue with the sailors that stood up on the rides and die, etc and or puke. Disneyland was the solution to that.

They walk a perilous line with booze in the parks. Like you said, the markup on those drinks is insane. I'm not a teetotaler or anything, but you can see Walt's point in keeping Disneyland dry. On the other hand, it would be kind of absurd to have a Biergarten in EPCOT without the beer. DCA is a tossup - having beer stands there, or randomly placed bars, gives it to me more of that carnival atmosphere that plagues the park. People walking around with beers on Paradise Pier reminds me more of a sporting event or Six Flags than it does something classy like EPCOT. It's all perception, though.

Disney does do a pretty good job, at least in WDW, about keeping people from overdoing it. I used to drive the Friendships from EPCOT to the hotels at the end of the night, so I know that you get some guests staggering back to their rooms, but overall nothing was as bad as the crowds at the media events who would get free drinks and urp on the docks.


It was my favorite toy as a kid. Hands down. My kids did not like the park that much. At 6 yr's old they would look at the line and say "the rides are not worth the wait". I hope the new Lego park is more fun and has better capacity.

I'm sure you're right about the rides - I've never been to a Legoland, but the rides look like pretty conventional carnival rides to me. The main draw for me as a kid was all the dioramas of the landmarks and cities and things done in Lego... I didn't even know, probably, that they had rides! I'm sure they'll have to up their game for Orlando attraction-wise, but they already have a leg up with the existing landscaping and atmosphere of the old Gardens. I think if they're savvy they can market it as a theme park to out-of-towners and a nice place for a picnic lunch for locals.

I just love Legos. I would probably still play with them if I could afford the darn things...

What is the most emotional aspect of WDW to you? What gets to you no matter how many times you see it?

I think for me it's mostly about the sensory experience. The smells ("Disney water"), the sounds, the atmosphere. Walking through Frontierland and hearing the train whistle blow, or the Riverboat horn, or the howl of the wolf from the Haunted Mansion. The smell of popcorn... or churros. And the music *everywhere*. As I've gotten older I can just appreciate sitting on a bench and just being there. Sitting in a rocking chair on Main Street, or just riding the train or WEDway around a few times, are as fun as anything else there is to offer.

In fact, a lot of times I feel that the parks have left me behind and it's the atmosphere combined with nostalgia that keeps me interested. This is most obvious in Future World at EPCOT, where I'm so excited to be there but then realize that there's nothing much that I want to do after I've seen SSE and The Land. It's like I think, "oh boy what's next?" and then realize... there's nothing else that I want to see. Imagination, Horizons, Motion... all gone. Energy stale. Wonders of Life stale and now gone. Seas aquarium seems nearly empty these days. It makes me think... why am I here, again? At least in the MK when I get depressed that there's no real Tiki Room I can enjoy a ride on the railroad...
 

IWant2GoNow

Well-Known Member
What is the most emotional aspect of WDW to you? What gets to you no matter how many times you see it?

No matter what park I'm in, I can't help but just be amazed that a company was able to create such a thing as WDW.

I'm constantly wondering how people came up with all these ideas, and how they get implemented all the time.

We all have ideas for the parks, but did you ever stop to think about ALL the work that goes into even the smallest attraction? It's really mind-boggling and it's just so overwhelming to me that WDW has been constructed at all. Truly amazing.
 

castevens

Member
Nostalgia. All my great vacation memories have came from WDW and I relive them each year and at the same time create new memories.


I can always count on Splash Mountain, Dinosaur, Soarin', and Rock'n'Roller Coaster to really bring out past memories specifically. OH, and the great Disney water parks. :)

I agree, I can't really pin one single thing in Disney that "gets me every time." Definitely nostalgia as a whole.

I talk Disney so much and look at Disney pictures on Flickr so much that the main things (like the park icons) don't really have the same effect that they used to, but it's the little things that you don't see often, like PUSH the talking trashcan, or little details in the buildings/decorations.
 

SoccerMickey

Active Member
Nostalgia. All my great vacation memories have came from WDW and I relive them each year and at the same time create new memories.


I can always count on Splash Mountain, Dinosaur, Soarin', and Rock'n'Roller Coaster to really bring out past memories specifically. OH, and the great Disney water parks. :)

I know I am in the minority here but I honestly can't see how Rock'n'Roller Coaster and Soarin' fit in with classic Disney attractions. R'n'R, to me, still looks like an off the shelf coaster inside a building with painted flats and black light. It definitely adds the thrill factor that Disney needs more of with today's audience who are looking for that other than Disney storytelling and I do find it fun. While Soarin' is just a giant screen with random shots of California. If you're seated in the second or third row, its just a movie and feet. The music is pretty but the attraction to me, is a snooze. I find the other one to be fun and entertaining, at least, but both I find to be a tad overrated for what they are.
 

KevinYee

Well-Known Member
What is the most emotional aspect of WDW to you? What gets to you no matter how many times you see it?

Anything that re-affirms the ties that bind humans together. Usually that's a question of "family" (sometimes alternative-family, or replacement-family)... this has been the formula for successful Disney movies for years. So the music of Illuminations fits the bill, or the soaring messages of Future World (especially old Future World).

But some of my favorite Disney theme park rides don't use that exact formula of emotion, and instead opt for escapism. There's a definite placemaking attempt in good rides and environments when Disney does it right: Tower of Terror, Harambe Village, Paris Main Street, Mount Prometheus. Unlike the movies, the purpose of the park is escapism (and often a particular brand of escape to nostalgia, either for a bygone era or perhaps your own childhood - or even a conflation of both, if you grew up with Disney parks and now *they* are the locus of attention... Baudrillard would have called this a third-order simulation).
 

tman2000

Member
I remember being in Pecos Bill Cafe - at 10:30 PM on a late summer closing night. I was waiting around for sister, to go on Splash Mountain. In a back corner was a stack of barrels. On one barrel, under a plexi shield was an old paper map of some unnamed wilderness. It was highly detailed, and incredible.

Being able to explore the fast food joint, and find hidden gems that make the whole world that much more rich and wonderful - that's the appeal.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I know I am in the minority here but I honestly can't see how Rock'n'Roller Coaster and Soarin' fit in with classic Disney attractions. R'n'R, to me, still looks like an off the shelf coaster inside a building with painted flats and black light. It definitely adds the thrill factor that Disney needs more of with today's audience who are looking for that other than Disney storytelling and I do find it fun. While Soarin' is just a giant screen with random shots of California. If you're seated in the second or third row, its just a movie and feet. The music is pretty but the attraction to me, is a snooze. I find the other one to be fun and entertaining, at least, but both I find to be a tad overrated for what they are.

I would agree with your critique that both shows are not seamless as to their execution and based on existing technology, but deliver on a sensory level as they are hugely popular. So do the Tea Cups and Dumbo which are argued to be classics to a certain age. I think the interesting thing we read here is that nostalgia and the sense of awe of the scope and scale of what was done at WDW drives emotion as much as the content. I did the Soap Box Racer Ride at Knott's (cheesy to the max but was fun to ride on) and am continually shocked at how much people loved that ride, not because it was great, but because they were 10 when they rode it and the memory keeps them in that "10 yr old" frame of mind.

They say "one man's mud is another man's uranium".
 
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