Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[EPCOT Explorer]

In case anyones interested here is concept art for Eddie's plans for DLP's Main Street set in the 1920s.

Interestingly here is some concept art for Buena Vista Street at DCA


See the resemblence?

That's great stuff...Haven't seen it in a while.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Renderings

That's great stuff...Haven't seen it in a while.

I have not seen that Colin Campbell rendering in years. Funny, but something about it did not set right with me at the time. It was not working yet. The Gas Station was not fitting with the other elements as seamlessly as was required and I felt that I could not sell the concept based on that art alone. The painting is inaccurate as the block of buildings (where it says "Disney and Co.") is supposed to be angled 45 degrees with the El Station in front of it at the same angle. We'd need to evolve the architecture and fill in the layers of period more smoothly and make it more charming and less urban. It was close. We did do a Gas pump on Main St in DLP, but in a more integrated way. I think we could have made the 20's work beautifully, but it was a work in progress.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I have not seen that Colin Campbell rendering in years. Funny, but something about it did not set right with me at the time. It was not working yet. The Gas Station was not fitting with the other elements as seamlessly as was required and I felt that I could not sell the concept based on that art alone. The painting is inaccurate as the block of buildings (where it say Disney and Co.) the El Station is in front of is supposed to angled 45 degrees. We'd need to evolve the architecture and fill in the layers of period more smoothly and make it more charming and less urban. It was close. We did do a Gas pump on Main St in DLP, but in a more integrated way. I think we could have made the 20's work beautifully, but it was a work in progress.

I hope it gets built-somewhere! Disney could pull of the 20's era amazingly. They kind of have it in DHS with the 30's-ish, but this would be better.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

WOW. :lol: I can't believe I have the chance to ask you this.

So, when you were thinking of a M:S style attraction were the 1978 Plans considered? Did you think of re-using the Horizons building? Were there any plans at all to save Horizons and build M:S elsewhere?

Sorry, I'm asking so many questions, but this is one of my favorite EPCOT "subjects"

The MS story is really really long. WDW wanted a "thrill" attraction and another team at WDI had ignored that and pitched a large show featuring aliens. It was not the 1978 thing. WDW didn't want it. We listened and pitched a thrilling G force adventure based on an intimate realistic experience that was unique. It used coaster technology with capsules on spiraling rails. We mocked the capsule up. Eisner and WDW liked that idea and we were given the check. The show evolved from it's original idea a bit and what you see is not exactly what was presented and sold, but what is? I left part way thru in 1999. We did try to use the Horizon's building many times and finally for tax or business reasons they tore it down.

BTW Horizons had very low guest satisfaction ratings to the point where people didn't even remember which show it was. I think the topic of Horizons is great and that retro-future attraction should be there in some form, but the economics of running unpopular shows was not an option, so we jumped in and filled the "need". GE had left and there was no one to pay for it. WDW wanted it gone. Sad but true.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

The MS story is really really long. WDW wanted a "thrill" attraction and another team at WDI had ignored that and pitched a large show featuring aliens. It was not the 1978 thing. WDW didn't want it. We listened and pitched a thrilling G force adventure based on an intimate realistic experience that was unique. It used coaster technology with capsules on spiraling rails. We mocked the capsule up. Eisner and WDW liked that idea and we were given the check. The show evolved from it's original idea a bit and what you see is not exactly what was presented and sold, but what is? I left part way thru in 1999. We did try to use the Horizon's building many times and finally for tax or business reasons they tore it down.

Aliens!? Wow. Never heard of that for EPCOT of all things!:lol:

So, 1978 was never even thought of, as a Space Pavilion was wanted, and Horizons was closing? That's new...and sad.:lol: Very interesting on how M:S started out. And thanks for trying to keep the Horizons building. I always think it would have softened the blow. And I think it was business reasons...GE.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

BTW Horizons had very low guest satisfaction ratings to the point where people didn't even remember which show it was. I think the topic of Horizons is great and that retro-future attraction should be there in some form, but the economics of running unpopular shows was not an option, so we jumped in and filled the "need". GE had left and there was no one to pay for it. WDW wanted it gone. Sad but true.

Well, I'm assuming those numbers are from when it reopened after it was initially closed and the reopened? And it's just like PI...They want it gone, they do "surveys", loose sponsorship, and it's gone.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Aliens!? Wow. Never heard of that for EPCOT of all things!:lol:

As I recall, it was more of a Hollywood look at Space to a degree. The visions of space and fears people have had over the ages. Melies, Aliens, etc. I'm sure there was some real stuff in there too.

The drawers were full of great and amazing Space Pavilions (we wanted a pavilion but were lucky to get a ride) but the timing was never right for those ideas. Management always wants to see something fresh, so we were the last one in and got the project. It got sponsored/funded after I left.

 

[HMF]

The MS story is really really long. WDW wanted a "thrill" attraction and another team at WDI had ignored that and pitched a large show featuring aliens. It was not the 1978 thing. WDW didn't want it. We listened and pitched a thrilling G force adventure based on an intimate realistic experience that was unique. It used coaster technology with capsules on spiraling rails. We mocked the capsule up. Eisner and WDW liked that idea and we were given the check. The show evolved from it's original idea a bit and what you see is not exactly what was presented and sold, but what is? I left part way thru in 1999. We did try to use the Horizon's building many times and finally for tax or business reasons they tore it down.

I like how you wanted to make a Thrill Attraction while keeping the Epcot concept of Entertain' Inform and inspire. WDI suuceded immensely with this on Test Track and Mission Space. However since Mission Space WDI has lost sight of the Epcot concept in my opinion. (Even though I am re-thinking my position on Gran Fiesta Tour.)

 

[CaptainMichael]

I did not know that. the media (or the Horizons fans)blew the whole fatality thing WAY out of proportion. They can greenlight your ideas after you leave? They also greenlighted and expanded on one of your other ideas.(which became Pirates Lair on Tom Sawyer Island.)

I know you've mentioned that you want to work for the company some day. You'll find out when you fill out your paperwork on the first day:wave:

 

[jt04]

FYI- You are not so far off..I used to be the "creative consultant" for "Pimp my Ride" on Mtv. My "ghost designer" job was doing creative designs, graphics and other stuff for the cars and throwing out insane ideas. VERY FUN and very me. I got too busy to continue and faded out. Mostly during the Season 4. Limo, Ice Cream Truck, Monte Carlo, etc. lots of cool rides. I got screen credit and my company was responsible for the interior look of the GAS facility.

That is amazing! I did not know that when I made the suggestion about OCC. I've looked at your web site a bit and find the work you do amazingly varied. You are really a versatile designer.

Thanks for responding to that and the Mission Space stuff. A lot of people here think I don't have a clue, so it's good to hear I was at least close from someone who would know. Although I know that wasn't your intention at all. :lol:

Steve (the owner of this site) must be doing back flips having you here.
Thanks again!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I hope it gets built-somewhere! Disney could pull of the 20's era amazingly. They kind of have it in DHS with the 30's-ish, but this would be better.

They did a great job at DHS or MGM as it was then. I often would look at it and think about how MSUSA would have been done. I think the California Spanish stuff would not have been correct for DLP, but the way they dealt with scale was great and the deco buildings, billboards, etc. are outstanding.

 

[The Conundrum]

I saw concept art for a Space Pavillion that involved 2 g-force simulator attractions (one would be about you travelling to the space station and the other returning to Earth). The main pavillion would be themed to a space station and one of the other attractions in the building would have been this really cool looking cable car ride that had a stick on each vehicle that let you control some of the movement.

I think it was supposed to be housed in the Horizons building which would have been repainted black.

With respect to Eddie, I really dislike the Mission Space attraction that is currently at Epcot. I think it lacks coherency, the pods feel claustraphobic, the screens are tiny and the video looks like cheaply done Computer graphics, the "interactivity" is misleading, and the way the attraction ends is pretty random. It is easily one of the worst attractions built at Epcot Center.

 

[unkadug]

I saw concept art for a Space Pavillion that involved 2 g-force simulator attractions (one would be about you travelling to the space station and the other returning to Earth). The main pavillion would be themed to a space station and one of the other attractions in the building would have been this really cool looking cable car ride that had a stick on each vehicle that let you control some of the movement.

I think it was supposed to be housed in the Horizons building which would have been repainted black.

With respect to Eddie, I really dislike the Mission Space attraction that is currently at Epcot. I think it lacks coherency, the pods feel claustraphobic, the screens are tiny and the video looks like cheaply done Computer graphics, the "interactivity" is misleading, and the way the attraction ends is pretty random. It is easily one of the worst attractions built at Epcot Center.

Would you not have complained if the whole attraction was predictable?

Would you not have complained if the pod was larger, saying that it was not authentic of the shuttle command module (or Saturn 5 for that matter.)

Do you really want people with no space travel experience to be in charge of your theme park experience.

Would you not have complained if the screens were larger stating that size and weight is a major factor in space travel.

The Lady doth protest too much.

 

[JLW11Hi]

They did a great job at DHS or MGM as it was then. I often would look at it and think about how MSUSA would have been done. I think the California Spanish stuff would not have been correct for DLP, but the way they dealt with scale was great and the deco buildings, billboards, etc. are outstanding.

The Hollywood Boulevard/Sunset Boulevard areas of DHS are a big favorite of mine!

Mr. Sotto, reading about your involvement in the original plans for Main Street at Disneyland Paris is incredibly amazing to me. I honestly don't think I have heard about these original plans before, but they sound like my ultimate theme park experience. The 1920's? A speakeasy show? An elevated train? Hearing that these ideas never saw the light of day is honestly tearing me apart inside. How cool would that Main Street have been?

I'm interested in the choice of background loop music you would have chosen for such a place? Would it have been a combination of 1920's American jazz as well as French jazz, like Django Reinhardt to tie in the French connection?

I am sure this idea has been thrown around for years now that I read about it, but I can honestly say that as a theme park fan, I have always dreamed of a 1920's themed "city" complete with gangsters, jazz music, and speakeasies. What kid wouldn't love it? I am still waiting for a wild 1920's car ride where you tear through city streets and alleyways outrunning cops and gangsters, with wild hot jazz scored to the entire ride. Almost got it with D.ick Tracy. Someday!

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

As I recall, it was more of a Hollywood look at Space to a degree. The visions of space and fears people have had over the ages. Melies, Aliens, etc. I'm sure there was some real stuff in there too.

The drawers were full of great and amazing Space Pavilions (we wanted a pavilion but were lucky to get a ride) but the timing was never right for those ideas. Management always wants to see something fresh, so we were the last one in and got the project. It got sponsored/funded after I left.

Ah, so Space History- and that almost has a Horizons angle to it! I love it. Shame they didn't pull that off in a full Pavilion.

 

[jt04]

I saw concept art for a Space Pavillion that involved 2 g-force simulator attractions (one would be about you travelling to the space station and the other returning to Earth). The main pavillion would be themed to a space station and one of the other attractions in the building would have been this really cool looking cable car ride that had a stick on each vehicle that let you control some of the movement.

I think it was supposed to be housed in the Horizons building which would have been repainted black.

With respect to Eddie, I really dislike the Mission Space attraction that is currently at Epcot. I think it lacks coherency, the pods feel claustraphobic, the screens are tiny and the video looks like cheaply done Computer graphics, the "interactivity" is misleading, and the way the attraction ends is pretty random. It is easily one of the worst attractions built at Epcot Center.

Remember though, real space craft are claustraphobic and have tiny screens. And the graphics of the real thing are cheesier than what you see at MS. I can't think of an attraction at Epcot that has a more immersive feel to it. I find it amazing for what it is.

That being said, I hope someday it offers a "real" trip to Mars or a Space Station which could be realized by connecting the Space Pavilion to the WoL Pavilion to create a mega-pavilion similar to "The Land" in size and scope.

 

[DisneyChik17]

Remember though, real space craft are claustraphobic and have tiny screens. And the graphics of the real thing are cheesier than what you see at MS. I can't think of an attraction at Epcot that has a more immersive feel to it. I find it amazing for what it is.

That being said, I hope someday it offers a "real" trip to Mars or a Space Station which could be realized by connecting the Space Pavilion to the WoL Pavilion to create a mega-pavilion similar to "The Land" in size and scope.

That was my biggest disappointment in the ride, the post-show. I expected to walk out into the Red Planet, not into an arcade. It was certainly disheartening to see. I would love to go into a Space pavillion from the ride.

 

[jt04]

That was my biggest disappointment in the ride, the post-show. I expected to walk out into the Red Planet, not into an arcade. It was certainly disheartening to see. I would love to go into a Space pavillion from the ride.

And it could be done fairly inexpensively as these things go. I have been floating the idea here on this forum for a couple years. They could easily redo or buy new simulators to replace Body Wars for a nice E or D ticket attraction, and put in a new theater show in the former CC space as a solid D ticket or even another E ticket level experience. Add a "space food" eatery (not real space food of course :hurl and some smaller interactive exhibits and you have a mega pavilion and very effective crowd eater. And yes I think it could move plush. :lol:

 

[yankspy]

And it could be done fairly inexpensively as these things go. I have been floating the idea here on this forum for a couple years. They could easily redo or buy new simulators to replace Body Wars for a nice E or D ticket attraction, and put in a new theater show in the former CC space as a solid D ticket or even another E ticket level experience. Add a "space food" eatery (not real space food of course :hurl and some smaller interactive exhibits and you have a mega pavilion and very effective crowd eater. And yes I think it could move plush. :lol:

Yep, we have talked about this before. I would love to see a particle accelerator simulation or some sort of attraction with black holes. A next level planetarium would be nice too. As far as merchandise, anyone for Mickey Moon Rocks?:lol:

 

[NadieMasK2]

Yep, we have talked about this before. I would love to see a particle accelerator simulation or some sort of attraction with black holes. A next level planetarium would be nice too. As far as merchandise, anyone for Mickey Moon Rocks?:lol:

And it would be nice to allow ALL guests to experience space-related activities. M:S is great, but what about the younger crowd and those who get violently motion sick like moi? (Or claustrophobic?). Not saying that WDW has to make every attraction fitting for all audiences, but it seems like a missed opportunity for sure. I can easily see many interative exhibits being a big hit.