Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[HMF]

Very interesting...

So, say EPCOT wants to advertise their new SSE. They can create new media and new promos through *their* offices?

It is amazing how under-promoted certain things are.

 

[jt04]

It is amazing how under-promoted certain things are.

I have a feeling there was not a great desire to brag about the new, partially completed SSE.

 

[WDW1974]

Very interesting...

So, say EPCOT wants to advertise their new SSE. They can create new media and new promos through *their* offices?

Nope. WDW controls all marketing of the resort, not individual parks.

Can EPCOT decide to put SSE on the cover of its guide maps or add signage enticing guests to ride or even have CMs shill it in other locales? Yes.

But if say a new commercial for Florida markets is produced on SSE, it will come from TDO.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

It is amazing how under-promoted certain things are.

Why do you think I asked?:lol:

I have a feeling there was not a great desire to brag about the new, partially completed SSE.

That's true, but do you expect them to start advertising now with a new finale, when the ride has been open for two years?

How wrong did this go...?:lol:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Nope. WDW controls all marketing of the resort, not individual parks.

Can EPCOT decide to put SSE on the cover of its guide maps or add signage enticing guests to ride or even have CMs shill it in other locales? Yes.

But if say a new commercial for Florida markets is produced on SSE, it will come from TDO.

Ah...So TDO could have made them, could have pushed for larger exposure, but nope. That's a shame.

I wonder what they will do with SM...

 

[WDW1974]

I have a feeling there was not a great desire to brag about the new, partially completed SSE.

True. ... But they can't market every attraction and certainly not an attraction redo.

I don't believe either Small World or Mansion got any major campaigns for their refurbs, while Pirates did because of the film synergy.

Attractions like PhilharMagic and MILF got campaigns in Florida (possibly on certain cablers like Travel and Discovery as well during their Disney programming).

I would bet that HoP gets nothing beyond maybe some billboards in Central Fla. but that a broadcast campaign is held when Space Mountain 'relaunches'.

 

[jt04]

Yeah. Those complaints about neglect, poor maintenance and cast training being ignored wound up leading to people DYING and major black eyes for the company.

One would hope they aren't stupid enough to let WDW crumble to the point DL was before Matt came in and the park was restored to tope shape for its 50th.

Too often management will sit back and not spend say $5,000 on a repair that is needed and they ignore it for years so when they have to fix the 'issue' it may now be a $500,000 fix. That's stupid on so many levels, yet happens all the time.

I think that is very likely why Yeti is stuck in B mode. Too expensive and time consuming to fix and they are not willing to take any chances by operating it. They are saving money and nobody is potentially getting hurt.

One of the things ES brought up in his interview was the liability aspect in ride design. I used to to this :brick::brick::brick:everytime people would bash M:S as being "dangerous" because they were really upset Horizons has been torn down. I don't think people have a clue how badly that hurt future ride developments. The epitome of the "law of unintended consequences". Although I am very glad to hear today that slowly but surely the wait times rebound for M:S as the unfounded hysteria receeds.

Bottom line, all the budding Imagineers with grand plans and who slam M:S, do their own plans great damage.


*steps off soapbox*

 

[WDW1974]

The yeti will have to be dealt with. The attraction is in awful show shape for a major, expensive E-Ticket that is barely three years old. I've heard it can be fixed without them shutting it down, but I don't know how true that is.

As to liability, it will always be a huge issue. But one that has unfortunately been allowed to explode due to some major problems with our legal system.

No major corporation, let alone Disney, builds attractions to kill, maim or hurt people. Now ... should they be held accountable when they are negligent (like BTMRR at DL)? Absolutely.

But if someone has a pre-existing condition, something where they can literally drop dead at any time and they happen to do so on a Disney attraction ... while I think the proper/moral/ethical thing for a major corporation to do is to offer some settlement, they shouldn't be taken for tens of millions of dollars either. And we shouldn't have a system that automatically assumes a corporation owes that kind of money just because someone died on their property ... I always compare it (as a Floridian) to you going away on vacation ... you leave your pool fenced off and closed ... and some neighbor's child sneaks in and drowns. Do you have any liability simply because it happened on your property? My common sense answer would be no ... but the courts don't always seem to agree.

 

[jt04]

The yeti will have to be dealt with. The attraction is in awful show shape for a major, expensive E-Ticket that is barely three years old. I've heard it can be fixed without them shutting it down, but I don't know how true that is.

As to liability, it will always be a huge issue. But one that has unfortunately been allowed to explode due to some major problems with our legal system.

No major corporation, let alone Disney, builds attractions to kill, maim or hurt people. Now ... should they be held accountable when they are negligent (like BTMRR at DL)? Absolutely.

But if someone has a pre-existing condition, something where they can literally drop dead at any time and they happen to do so on a Disney attraction ... while I think the proper/moral/ethical thing for a major corporation to do is to offer some settlement, they shouldn't be taken for tens of millions of dollars either. And we shouldn't have a system that automatically assumes a corporation owes that kind of money just because someone died on their property ... I always compare it (as a Floridian) to you going away on vacation ... you leave your pool fenced off and closed ... and some neighbor's child sneaks in and drowns. Do you have any liability simply because it happened on your property? My common sense answer would be no ... but the courts don't always seem to agree.

And now I suspect more than ever WDI has to run their plans by lawyers
:brick:

 

[Captain Chaos]

Sure. It's possible. Just like it's possible the world will end today. Just neither are very likely.

Well, to be fair, the end of the world WILL happen one day... We just won't be around to see the Sun swallow the Earth before it turns into a black hole... :lookaroun

 

[HMF]

I think that is very likely why Yeti is stuck in B mode. Too expensive and time consuming to fix and they are not willing to take any chances by operating it. They are saving money and nobody is potentially getting hurt.

One of the things ES brought up in his interview was the liability aspect in ride design. I used to to this :brick::brick::brick:everytime people would bash M:S as being "dangerous" because they were really upset Horizons has been torn down. I don't think people have a clue how badly that hurt future ride developments. The epitome of the "law of unintended consequences". Although I am very glad to hear today that slowly but surely the wait times rebound for M:S as the unfounded hysteria receeds.

Bottom line, all the budding Imagineers with grand plans and who slam M:S, do their own plans great damage.
*steps off soapbox*

So' are you saying the reason Mission Space has gotten it's reputation as dangerous and deadly has come from die-hard Horizons fans?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Mr Sotto, thanks for taking the time to read and respond to this thread. I love how Imagineers think outside the box to use that cliche'. I do too, so here is a thought for you.

I don't know if you have ever seen the "Orange County Choppers" show but during this season Paul Jr. is looking to find his niche in the design world. He definitely has talent and is looking to branch out from just motorcycles. Now I realize this seasons's shows are probably "in the can" and I have no idea how this season turns out.

But it might be interesting if he met with some Imagineers (or former Imagineers :lookaroun) to either get guidance or potentially form a partnership, or be brought into an existing enterprise that needs his talents but also the exposure he would bring to an enterprise. Seems like some potentially great synergy. You could have your people call his people :lol: and set up a lunch. At your restaurant of course. Could make a great episode of TV and who knows where it goes from there.

Just a thought. I realize I am probably totally out of line .
And I don't know anyone from OCC, I just thought it might make an interesting show.

FYI- You are not so far off..I used to be the "creative consultant" for "Pimp my Ride" on Mtv. My "ghost designer" job was doing creative designs, graphics and other stuff for the cars and throwing out insane ideas. VERY FUN and very me. I got too busy to continue and faded out. Mostly during the Season 4. Limo, Ice Cream Truck, Monte Carlo, etc. lots of cool rides. I got screen credit and my company was responsible for the interior look of the GAS facility.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Mission:Space

So' are you saying the reason Mission Space has gotten it's reputation as dangerous and deadly has come from die-hard Horizons fans?

As you probably know, Mission:Space was initiated by me. Marty tells the story of my pitching it to him. I quit the company before it was greenlit into production, so alot happened after I left. It began as a spiraling gravity coaster, not a centrifuge. Overall, like TDL Pooh, I am proud of the attraction in that pushed the envelope of ride system technology and delivered a "science fact" experience of real spaceflight. Truth be told, these G forces in themselves are far tamer than the average roller coaster. They are just presented differently. The input of Air Force Flight Surgeons and real Astronauts informed the development the attraction. And like Indiana Jones or Space Mountain, sometimes pre existing conditions appear in guests and unfortunately tragedy happens. The interesting thing Marty mentioned to me at the time of the MS fatality, was that 11 million guests had already safely experienced it. That speaks for itself.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hkdl

BTW, curious Eddie ... have you been to HKDL and, if so, what do you think of the place.

No, I can't say I have but would love to. I think (my good friend) Tom Morris and his WDI team did all the right things in creating a very rich setting for more rides to happen in. That is the obvious issue, more to do. No mystery there. Remember, anything from now on has to "pencil" (make money on its own) so they have to get the richness in when they build the place and set the tone. They nailed that. There are issues with how to expand the park, and so they will address them in time as they come.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Anything is possible. But it would never happen.

Why would you spend millions to remove something only to spend many times that later to return it? You wouldn't.

It's kind of like when fanbois fantasize about bringing Horizons to MK or CoP to EPCOT or building a fifth park made up entirely of attractions removed from other parks.

Sure. It's possible. Just like it's possible the world will end today. Just neither are very likely.

Maybe they would look at the TDS lagoon free dry 20k ride system.

 

[nor'easter]

As to liability, it will always be a huge issue. But one that has unfortunately been allowed to explode due to some major problems with our legal system.

No major corporation, let alone Disney, builds attractions to kill, maim or hurt people. .

Maybe not intentionally, but it does happen. As for blaming the legal system, tort law has problems, but they flow from past wrongdoings by corporate America. There was the Ford exploding Pinto, many pharmaceutical cover-ups, etc. etc.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

As you probably know, Mission:Space was initiated by me. Marty tells the story of my pitching it to him. I quit the company before it was greenlit into production, so alot happened after I left. It began as a spiraling gravity coaster, not a centrifuge. Overall, like TDL Pooh, I am proud of the attraction in that pushed the envelope of ride system technology and delivered a "science fact" experience of real spaceflight. Truth be told, these G forces in themselves are far tamer than the average roller coaster. They are just presented differently. The input of Air Force Flight Surgeons and real Astronauts informed the development the attraction. And like Indiana Jones or Space Mountain, sometimes pre existing conditions appear in guests and unfortunately tragedy happens. The interesting thing Marty mentioned to me at the time of the MS fatality, was that 11 million guests had already safely experienced it. That speaks for itself.

WOW. :lol: I can't believe I have the chance to ask you this.

So, when you were thinking of a M:S style attraction were the 1978 Plans considered? Did you think of re-using the Horizons building? Were there any plans at all to save Horizons and build M:S elsewhere?

Sorry, I'm asking so many questions, but this is one of my favorite EPCOT "subjects"

 

[HMF]

As you probably know, Mission:Space was initiated by me.

I did not know that. the media (or the Horizons fans)blew the whole fatality thing WAY out of proportion. They can greenlight your ideas after you leave? They also greenlighted and expanded on one of your other ideas.(which became Pirates Lair on Tom Sawyer Island.)

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I did not know that. the media (or the Horizons fans)blew the whole fatality thing WAY out of proportion. They can greenlight your ideas after you leave? They also greenlighted and expanded on one of your other ideas.(which became Pirates Lair on Tom Sawyer Island.)

Yeah...What sinkhole?:lookaroun:lol:

 

[HMF]

In case anyones interested here is concept art for Eddie's plans for DLP's Main Street set in the 1920s.

Interestingly here is some concept art for Buena Vista Street at DCA


See the resemblence?