Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

I met Computer Pioneer Alan Kay when he was part of a Disney "fellows" program of smart people back in the 90's. Brilliant and kind man. He coined the oft used quote "The best way to predict the future is to invent it". Alan has this to say about today's Apple.

http://www.cultofmac.com/222019/xer...-is-dysfunctional-with-or-without-steve-jobs/

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I met Computer Pioneer Alan Kay when he was part of a Disney "fellows" program of smart people back in the 90's. Brilliant and kind man. He coined the oft used quote "The best way to predict the future is to invent it". Alan has this to say about today's Apple.

. . .

http://www.cultofmac.com/222019/xer...-is-dysfunctional-with-or-without-steve-jobs/

Apple's 'evolution' of their product has kinda slowed down. For the past many years folks have been screamin' for a cheaper iPhone, which could come if they figure how to make it mostly out of plastic, seems like this is the year. Kinda a big deal if Apple wants to keep/grow their share of the smart phone market.

An Apple built television seems like a lost cause. The company should have bought a television maker and added their OS. I've got a televisions with built in Wi-Fi for connecting to NetFlix and OS is Linux or something free. Really!? I've got a collection of Macs and I can't get a flatscreen running Mac OS?

It would be nice if Apple had some ambition again . . .

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Just saw some pictures of Disneyland Paris onhttp://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/,

I visited DLP over ten years ago around November . . . took the boat around the river and thought everything look very under-grown as there was a real lack of foliage, but maybe the problem was just that they didn't plant evergreens. I would figure they'd would have wanted every 3rd tree around the river to a pine, or some other evergreen.

Looks worse in Adventureland:

Granted, not all the trees can or should be evergreens . . . but it looks bad, depressing even.

At least somebody had the good sense to put some pines behind Alice's Maze,

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

On DisneyandMore there is also a picture of the Ratatouille ride vehicle,

Looks like it has the ability to "tilt", perhaps making it LPS 2.0 when compared to Pooh.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It will be interesting to see what all it does. The base is curious looking.

 

[lazyboy97o]

SeaWorld Orlando has already confirmed that the trackless vehicles for Antartica: Empire of the Penguin will feature a motion base, so it's not surprising that Disney would want to keep up with what has been happening to the technology.

 

[dagobert]

Mr. Sotto, I have just returned from another trip to Disneyland Paris and I was again amazed by all the details you put into Main Street USA, especially the Arcades.

But now I have a question. I got into a talk with another guest and he told me that in the early days it was possible to buy Renault cars at Main Street Motors. Now I'm curious, do you know something about that and is it even true?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

It will be interesting to see what all it does. The base is curious looking.

Based on my impression of the picture, I figure that the "rat" part is attached to the base simply via some industrial strength springs. Such that when the vehicle moves around a corner, you get some tilt, and the when the vehicle arrives at load/unload a piece of hardware locks the vehicle so it can't tilt.

Or, maybe it un-locks so that the rat can spin relative to the base during certain scenes. By using the motion of the base, you get special movement without installing additional motors.

 

[stevehousse]

That base looks like it'll make the ride vehicles tilt and spin possibly...

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

That base looks like it'll make the ride vehicles tilt and spin possibly...

With a ride name like "Kitchen Calamity", I think the experience will be inspired by Remy's more exciting chases through the kitchen from the film. As the ride vehicle looks like a rat, it seems like KC follows in the tradition of classic Disney dark rides where you become the protagonist of the story off on a familiar, yet slightly different, adventure. So in other words, guests become Remy, or some rat, scurrying through the kitchen, and interacting with oversized human beings.

Is there a term for this? Such as "First Person" dark ride? If I had to make a list:

First Person Dark Rides/Attractions

Alice (later they added Alice to the ride, but you still feel like it is you on the adventure, perhaps experiencing one very similar to Alice's.)
Mr. Toad
Peter Pan (the guest isn't Peter Pan, but certainly somebody who flies off through that window with Peter and the Gang).
Snow White
Pinocchio
Ratatouille Kitchen Calamity
Tom Sawyer Island, you can become Huck or Tom if you imagine hard enough
RSR. You become a car getting ready to race and enter the world of Radiator Springs
Space Mountain. Your own private adventure in outerspace.
Matterhorn. Your own private adventure in a bobsled.
Star Tours, you might be the 'rebel spy' that Darth Vader is trying to hunt down.

Third Person Dark Ride/Attractions

Pooh. Obviously the guest is not Pooh, but 'reading' of the adventures of Pooh from a oversized book.
Mermaid Guests are a viewing audience from the snug safety of a clam shell
Pirates You watch the action from the safety of a plastic boat.
Haunted Mansion (though after you fall out of the attic you're 'dead' and the graveyard digger is scared of you, though I think that 99% of guests don't get this).
Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln
Splash Mountain. I'd have to say third person as you live the adventure through the eyes of Brer Rabbit.
Storybook Land Canal boat, you hear about the adventures of others.

Obviously there is not a wrong or right way. Overall, I think that the 'third person' rides let you sit back and soak it all in, whereas the first person rides have much more suspense. I think that for little kids, they overall prefer first person attractions as they love to do imaginative play (though we all love seeing Pooh and friends in the flesh, so to speak). For adults, if you have an active imagination, you can insert yourself into a third person attraction narrative, or just the realistic details inside of the Blue Bayou are entertaining.

 

[wdwmagic]

On DisneyandMore there is also a picture of the Ratatouille ride vehicle,

Looks like it has the ability to "tilt", perhaps making it LPS 2.0 when compared to Pooh.

It does look like it will have the ability to tilt. Thanks for posting those pics. Interesting to see.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

At the risk of derailing the Rat ride vehicle discussion, I wanted to bring Eddie's attention to one of my favorite media sociologists and propaganda gurus, Rick Prelinger.

Straight from its world premiere at SXSW last month, Rick will screen his latest documentary, "No More Road Trips?" at the SF International Film Festival next month, about the bygone days of wondrous Americana travel-by-car-across-the-country experience.

(For those who remember the old Rocket Rods queue at DL in the Circle-Vision building, with the old newsreels footage of race cars and automobile ads where yuppie husbands and housewives danced around shiny new convertibles, Rick is the keeper of said archived media. I encourage you to check it out if you're a fan of cold war post-modern capitalist propaganda.)

 

[MouseketeerCole]

Can I also ask a question outside the Ratatouille discussion?

Eddie, I'm fascinated by the way you designed the right side of town square in DLP's Main Street, U.S.A., such as underneath the Main Street Transportation Co. facade. For anyone who hasn't seen it in person, looking at it from the square you see what looks like the front of the building - complete with doors and windows displaying merchandise - but then you walk up to it and find there's a covered walkway behind it, and the real building fronts (complete with more windows) beyond that. Things like the green doors under the MST Co. would have no purpose in real life other than aesthetics, surely. Eddie, did you design it this way to fit requirements that there be covered walkways either side of Main Street? I think it's a fascinating solution that you came up with.

Also, who are the Bixby Brothers? Were they real people? Were they based on real people? Their names seem to pop up throughout the street.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Can I also ask a question outside the Ratatouille discussion?

Eddie, I'm fascinated by the way you designed the right side of town square in DLP's Main Street, U.S.A., such as underneath the Main Street Transportation Co. facade. For anyone who hasn't seen it in person, looking at it from the square you see what looks like the front of the building - complete with doors and windows displaying merchandise - but then you walk up to it and find there's a covered walkway behind it, and the real building fronts (complete with more windows) beyond that. Things like the green doors under the MST Co. would have no purpose in real life other than aesthetics, surely. Eddie, did you design it this way to fit requirements that there be covered walkways either side of Main Street? I think it's a fascinating solution that you came up with.

Also, who are the Bixby Brothers? Were they real people? Were they based on real people? Their names seem to pop up throughout the street.

Yes. We were required to create an out of scale 10 foot wide covered path from the ticketing area all the way down Main Street! The doors you speak of open to the porch and are nonsensical, but we needed them to make the front work. The Arcades carried most of the obligation for weather control, but the town Square had nothing. This is the kiss of death for any kind of organic realism. That is why both sides of the street have those concessions. We wove the path through/behind the TS East facades, but I did not want to put a massive porch across both sides of the street. The City Hall actually has the second floor cantilevered over the walkway to lessen the perceived depth of the upper balcony. It was a bear! Thanks for noticing.

I think "Bixby" was made up but cannot be sure.

 

[MouseketeerCole]

Thanks for that Eddie! It seems like it shouldn't work, but the execution of the covers on both sides of Town Square is terrific, and it undoubtedly does. I would have loved to have seen you figuring out the puzzle of how to do it when you were designing it.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I really enjoyed Bob Gurr's take on the development of the doomed "Light Magic" (or perhaps "Magic Lite"?) Parade. I was not involved in it, but recall when watching the show how it left a saccharine aftertaste, like a diet Coke that had long lost it's freshness. It had these videos with gushing demographically targeted kids experiencing "magic and dreams", but felt hollow and calculated to me. The use of fiber optics did not sustain the show and reminded me of the black light accessory room at Spencer Gifts. Tragic, but a good lesson in how things go sideways. The Way Gurr describes the process confirms that somehow the idea, if there was one, never got there. The notion of stopping the float to do the show while the rest of the audience on the route gets nothing was insane. I was told that Michael Eisner really enjoyed "Riverdance", the Irish dance musical and told Disneyland so create something similar. Just a rumor.

Here's Bob's Story.

http://micechat.com/24879-disneyland-light-magic/

 

[flynnibus]

sounds like Bob's classic story of disdain for 'wasteful planning' vs 'experiment and refine'. He'd rather just hack something together and push it to failure, figure out why, fix, and repeat. There is merit to the tact, but after reading his book I think one can see the story of how he wore out his welcome. There is a balancing act required between planning and 'just try it' and swinging too far to either side can have disastrous results. It also leads to horrible work culture and environments.

It's ashame his book wasn't better put together.. had great promise. It is also quite interesting when one compares Bob's retelling of stories like the Matterhorn or Autopia vs the tale as its told by the Arrow guys.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I cannot vouch for his book as I have not read it. Bob came from a generation of "can-do" guys that work best in small teams and believe in trial and error. Nothing wrong with that, but the atmosphere and culture has to geared to allow for it. Walt could endorse their tinkering and dictate when enough was enough. That's what invention is. There is such a thing as "can't know". You cannot predict it till you try it. People forget that Disney basically ships the prototype. It's a world of one-offs. I do think that with every plan for a prototype, there should be room to learn and adjust the course along the way. Good things do evolve if they learn from the journey. Seldom is there a concept or a design that anticipates every pitfall. I know from my own experience that guiding something toward success is better than closing your eyes and letting it just get made from your sketch. The problem with LM seems to be that no one knew what it had to have to be a great show, so there was little to defend of prioritize. It just became. It was neither Art or Commerce.

 

[dhall]

I cannot vouch for his book as I have not read it. Bob came from a generation of "can-do" guys that work best in small teams and believe in trial and error. Nothing wrong with that, but the atmosphere and culture has to geared to allow for it. Walt could endorse their tinkering and dictate when enough was enough. That's what invention is. There is such a thing as "can't know". You cannot predict it till you try it. People forget that Disney basically ships the prototype. It's a world of one-offs. I do think that with every plan for a prototype, there should be room to learn and adjust the course along the way. Good things do evolve if they learn from the journey. Seldom is there a concept or a design that anticipates every pitfall. I know from my own experience that guiding something toward success is better than closing your eyes and letting it just get made from your sketch. The problem with LM seems to be that no one knew what it had to have to be a great show, so there was little to defend of prioritize. It just became. It was neither Art or Commerce.

At some point, though, there's just too much money & hype involved to allow something to fail out of the box & grow into success. If there's something else new right away to distract guests from the shortcomings, it'll lessen the risk quite a bit, but if you're replacing something popular & pushing a significant pile of chips onto the table, you can't be betting on coin flips.

 

[flynnibus]

I cannot vouch for his book as I have not read it. Bob came from a generation of "can-do" guys that work best in small teams and believe in trial and error. Nothing wrong with that, but the atmosphere and culture has to geared to allow for it

and your method of construction must be compatible with it as well. You can't sketch 'the core concept' and then hand it off to three levels detached that have no idea of what would work or not and expect them to 'fill in the gaps'. The fast and loose model works best when you have your own hands dirty and working along side the trade implementing it. That usually works in smaller scale, but is tough to ramp up.

People forget that Disney basically ships the prototype. It's a world of one-offs. I do think that with every plan for a prototype, there should be room to learn and adjust the course along the way. Good things do evolve if they learn from the journey. Seldom is there a concept or a design that anticipates every pitfall.

No, but for better or worse.. the expecting of what you have 'out of the gate' is worlds higher now then it was in the 50s and 60s. One of Bob's favorite topics is Autopia.. and by modern standards it would have been considered a disaster. It took them like 6 iterations to get a car that doesn't maim or self-destruct. But back then they could get away with a lot more injuries than they can now.

The product was so successful back then they could just afford to keep throwing money at the problems just to keep things afloat and they still came out on top. Not so sure the same applies today?