Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Cliff Racer]

I gotta think that room reads a lot better in person than in video...

Honestly I doubt it, in person its probably a lot easier to tell what is "real" and what is a video projection. Things like the wall falling away to show the monkey being battered by winds probably have their punch wear off more quickly in person. Having watched the video I dig the advancements in AA technology that make some of the characters work better but agree that it never really feels like a mansion and lacks HM's grandeur.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I haven't been by these parts in far too long (this thread that is)... I am interested in your thoughts on Mystic Manor Eddie. I think it is a very Disney, very well executed ride. One that WDW needs and the ride's design and general story ideas fit perfectly with the theme and story of the Imagination Pavilion.

Thanks. It is kind of unfair to critique attractions by watching videos. By design, they are meant to be experienced in person and videos compromise the show in every way. You do get a sense of other aspects, so it was great to get a brief sense of the content and flow. MM seems to be very different in tone than the HM so I'm reluctant to compare the two directly. The free ranging vehicles are of great interest to me and the first person video made it hard for me to get the sense of how the vehicles play a role together, or how magical they might seem to be in context. The one thing I would venture to say is that everyone has thought about what it might to be like to explore a haunted house. To make it out alive is just as much of an aspiration as conquering the Matterhorn. Of course, the HM is not the intense kind of scare that a Halloween Maze might be but it is meant to be soft enough for all ages and you do "find a way out". The Mystic Manor seems to be less aspirational as you are following the story of this character and it's not really about you at all. At least it does not seem to be. There may be a sense of spectacle, but the video does not seem to have that, so we should wait and see. It felt to me like visiting a close up magic show of some sort. Which can be ok if it's great. That's part of the handicap of watching this thing on video. When you say WDW needs one, I kind of wonder about that. It does seem well executed.

 

[PorterRedkey]

What does MM queue look like? Does it add significantly to the world and story of MM?

Here's a queue video...



The following video gives a better view of the pre-show:

 

[Darth Sidious]

Thanks. It is kind of unfair to critique attractions by watching videos. By design, they are meant to be experienced in person and videos compromise the show in every way. You do get a sense of other aspects, so it was great to get a brief sense of the content and flow. MM seems to be very different in tone than the HM so I'm reluctant to compare the two directly. The free ranging vehicles are of great interest to me and the first person video made it hard for me to get the sense of how the vehicles play a role together, or how magical they might seem to be in context. The one thing I would venture to say is that everyone has thought about what it might to be like to explore a haunted house. To make it out alive is just as much of an aspiration as conquering the Matterhorn. Of course, the HM is not the intense kind of scare that a Halloween Maze might be but it is meant to be soft enough for all ages and you do "find a way out". The Mystic Manor seems to be less aspirational as you are following the story of this character and it's not really about you at all. At least it does not seem to be. There may be a sense of spectacle, but the video does not seem to have that, so we should wait and see. It felt to me like visiting a close up magic show of some sort. Which can be ok if it's great. That's part of the handicap of watching this thing on video. When you say WDW needs one, I kind of wonder about that. It does seem well executed.

To clarify I think they need a trackless ride (not necessarily a MM clone), they are just amazingly open. It could be a great way to fuse the story and the guest, as you mentioned.

 

[jt04]

Eddie, have you ever worked with Theron Skees ? He was just announced as the lead for Disney Springs.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The one thing I would venture to say is that everyone has thought about what it might to be like to explore a haunted house. To make it out alive is just as much of an aspiration as conquering the Matterhorn.

. . .

The Mystic Manor seems to be less aspirational as you are following the story of this character and it's not really about you at all.

Maybe they should have added the T. Rex from the film that inspired the ride:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, have you ever worked with Theron Skees ? He was just announced as the lead for Disney Springs.

Sorry...No.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Ok. Now I get it. Thanks for posting those videos. Tonally it is very different than the Haunted Mansion. The premise reminds me of touring the Winchester Mystery house. For some reason, from the story and emphasis on the owner of the house, etc. it feels a bit like the TDS Tower of Terror.

 

[LongtimeReader]

Ok. Now I get it. Thanks for posting those videos. Tonally it is very different than the Haunted Mansion. The premise reminds me of touring the Winchester Mystery house. For some reason, from the story and emphasis on the owner of the house, etc. it feels a bit like the TDS Tower of Terror.

That appears to be the intention. Harrison Hightower of TDS is a member of the same exploration society as the owner of Mystic Manor in the attraction's backstory. The same logo (SEA) even appears there, and it is also present in TDS' Tower and the Fortress Explorations. This seems to be the first time a true spinoff has been created...cool.

 

[stlphil]

I can't tell you exactly why the elements of the MSEP come together to "click", but they do. The music seems really well suited for the visuals. It does not come off prerecorded, but almost organic to the lights themselves. It's all about being electronic and yet the music seems childlike and delicate. There is no canned chorus of singers drilling a jingle about dreams and magic at 100 db. It is just this suite of tingling music that somehow fits what you are seeing and that's all. It is not over produced. There is a certain graphic continuity to the floats that makes them the sum of their own parts. All those lights en masse. When you see the whole thing coming down the darkened street that is awe inspiring. Abstract and truly dreamlike, the lights of the parade interpret the characters on it's own terms. Light Magic and other parades are more literal. Rolling meet and greets.

I was walking DL Main Street yesterday and compared to all of the other versions, it is the simplest architecturally. One of the ways to tell what has been added over the years, is that some additions seem overly ornamental (or out of scale) compared to the base buildings beneath. It occurred to me that part of the personality of the DL MSUSA is that it has a childlike innocence in it's modest simplicity. There is no Crystal Palace, no 2 story porches filled with gingerbread. It's Victorian, but at the complexity of a dollhouse, not a Gothic Mansion. It's small town appeal derives from being straight forward and plain, but warm and approachable. The scale of the buildings reinforces that. Sometimes in an effort to honor the Disney tradition of detail and quality, that simplicity gets trampled somewhat by well intended design. I know in the case of DLP, we were working over the design of the WDW MS and it was not really emblematic of a small town as much as a victorian resort community. Different emotional feel. We skewed it into being a hybrid with the billboards and Americana. It has a richness that is addictive and rich, but it never had the warmth of the "Mayberry" feel of the DL version.

Where I'm going with this is that the parades may have become technically elaborate, yet emotionally plastic and superficial (at least to me), versus the sincere "lighting in a bottle" captured by the MSEP. I heard once that great design happens when you have stripped everything unnecessary away.

In addition to the things you've mentioned, I've always thought that one of the main reasons that the MSEP "clicks" can be found in the MS part of the name. The big incandescent lights are a perfect counterpoint to the popcorn lights that you've seen outlining the buildings of Main Street all night before the parade starts and which set the nighttime tone of the area. For this reason, the parade always seemed to work best when viewed from MS or the hub, and particularly never seemed to feel quite right at DCA. Similarly, while LEDs or fiber optics might be more impressive technically, they also don't have the same impact in the context of MS. As impressive as Specto was, it never quite felt organically right to me probably for this reason.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

In addition to the things you've mentioned, I've always thought that one of the main reasons that the MSEP "clicks" can be found in the MS part of the name. The big incandescent lights are a perfect counterpoint to the popcorn lights that you've seen outlining the buildings of Main Street all night before the parade starts and which set the nighttime tone of the area. For this reason, the parade always seemed to work best when viewed from MS or the hub, and particularly never seemed to feel quite right at DCA. Similarly, while LEDs or fiber optics might be more impressive technically, they also don't have the same impact in the context of MS. As impressive as Specto was, it never quite felt organically right to me probably for this reason.

Good point. The technology choices do have an effect.

 

[Omnispace]

I haven't been by these parts in far too long (this thread that is)... I am interested in your thoughts on Mystic Manor Eddie. I think it is a very Disney, very well executed ride. One that WDW needs and the ride's design and general story ideas fit perfectly with the theme and story of the Imagination Pavilion.

I think you are right-on with idea that Mystic Manor is the type of experience that would fit nicely with the concept of the Imagination Pavilion at Epcot. I recall Tony Blair saying that his intent for Journey Into Imagination was that the ride vehicles would have an "intelligence" to them and that they could change their pace along the track according to the scenes. It's something that they were not able to execute properly at the time but that ultimately inspired the vehicles for Indiana Jones.

These new ride vehicles could provide that "intelligence" in their movement. The independent movement of the vehicles would allow for great freedom where they could explore different aspects of the imagination such as the original ride did. They could take alternate paths through the scenes so that each time you rode it the experience could be a bit different. It would also be worthwhile if the vehicles themselves could "react" to the different things happening, similar to the Indy vehicles -- so for example if there's something scary that's encountered the vehicle would react accordingly.

I'm not sure that Imagination should entirely be a series of "tricks" and "illusions" as Mystic Manor seems to be. I'd hate for Disney to think they could simply substitute Figment for Albert (the monkey) and clone the illusions into a similar attraction. But the type of experience could definitely fit into the Imagination storyline where appropriate. I'm one who feels that the original storyline could be updated and made relevant for today's audience, as long as they can figure out a more appropriate ending.

An update of Imagination would need to be produced on a much grander scale than Mystic Manor, both because Epcot is a impressively-scaled park, and because one's imagination should be represented as being boundless. I'd love for the pavilion to be updated into something more like the original renderings, with the crystalline buildings outside and a greater sense of the building "growing" out of the ground.

 

[Omnispace]

Ok. Now I get it. Thanks for posting those videos. Tonally it is very different than the Haunted Mansion. The premise reminds me of touring the Winchester Mystery house. For some reason, from the story and emphasis on the owner of the house, etc. it feels a bit like the TDS Tower of Terror.

One connection I have never made before: Like the Haunted Mansion,the Winchester House tour has a room "with no way out"! It's the leftover room in the center of the house that has been boxed-in by later additions. There's no plaster left on the walls so all you have this creepy space enclosed in bare lath. I always get a chill in that room.

 

[Omnispace]

I can't tell you exactly why the elements of the MSEP come together to "click", but they do. The music seems really well suited for the visuals. It does not come off prerecorded, but almost organic to the lights themselves. It's all about being electronic and yet the music seems childlike and delicate. There is no canned chorus of singers drilling a jingle about dreams and magic at 100 db. It is just this suite of tingling music that somehow fits what you are seeing and that's all. It is not over produced.

Definitely! MSEP's music, "Baroque Hoedown", is an ear worm more deadly than those found on Ceti Alpha V. Thousands of guests have succumbed to it's affects. The only antidote is riding five times in succession through It's A Small World.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Definitely! MSEP's music, "Baroque Hoedown", is an ear worm more deadly than those found on Ceti Alpha V. Thousands of guests have succumbed to it's affects. The only antidote is riding five times in succession through It's A Small World.

Botany Bay . . . Botany Bay . . . oh no!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I agree that free ranging vehicles are a good fit for "Journey into Imagination".

There is an interesting dynamic in how ideas are formed and how several unrelated existing ideas come together to free associate and form a new one. (Walkie Talkie plus Radio plus Telephone equals Cellphone). Those roaming vehicles can demonstrate how the brain even works by being "ideas"! Even "bounce" off of each other. The "dreamworld" can be explored too.

Neuroscience is a new and exciting field and I would like to see that pavilion lead us into the wonders of the Human Brain and how our imagination really works. The old "Cranium Command" show took us into the brain, but this could be even wilder and more of an action adventure ride. Maybe we explore both the right and left sides as interactive worlds! I'd like to see Figment take us into a "mind game" type adventure where each of us is an "idea in search of a mate" inside the brain. Those vehicles can "wander" through the subconscious mind. I see a bit of the "Adventure thru Inner Space" feel with neuron and electrical charges inside the Imagination. It could be done in a fun, Disney way.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I agree that free ranging vehicles are a good fit for "Journey into Imagination".

There is an interesting dynamic in how ideas are formed and how several unrelated existing ideas come together to free associate and form a new one. (Walkie Talkie plus Radio plus Telephone equals Cellphone).

I see a bit of the "Adventure thru Inner Space" feel with neuron and electrical charges inside the Imagination. It could be done in a fun, Disney way.

There certainly are a lot of interesting neuroscience tidbits of info that could be used for an attraction, such as the whole "left hemisphere", "right hemisphere" specialization. Maybe they could use a dueling hemisphere type plot line.

I do miss the Body Wars ride, and think they could do another sort of Adventures Thru Inner Space Sci-Fi type ride.

I can't help but think that there is potentially a lot of fodder for the Imagination ride with Pixar "Inside Out" the movie about emotions inside a girl's head, which also tries to explain common day psychological experiences like deja vu, brain freeze. If one of the "emotions" is imagination . . . then they could use that, or if not then they could perhaps add Figment to the ride. Seems like the easiest way to get inside the mind, (versus just the brain), would be to somehow visit the characters in Inside Out.

 

[Omnispace]

I agree that free ranging vehicles are a good fit for "Journey into Imagination".

There is an interesting dynamic in how ideas are formed and how several unrelated existing ideas come together to free associate and form a new one. (Walkie Talkie plus Radio plus Telephone equals Cellphone). Those roaming vehicles can demonstrate how the brain even works by being "ideas"! Even "bounce" off of each other. The "dreamworld" can be explored too.

Neuroscience is a new and exciting field and I would like to see that pavilion lead us into the wonders of the Human Brain and how our imagination really works....

Those are interesting ideas. You are right, there is an entirely different physical realm associated with one's imagination. The original Journey Into Imagination relied on the metaphorical realm we are used to dealing with but there's an entire "behind the scenes" real world that can be explored.

I wonder if anyone has thought of using these free ranging vehicles for parts of the sets or the actual Animatronics themselves? It would be pretty wild to be chased around by a gigantic "bad idea"!!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Those are interesting ideas. You are right, there is an entirely different physical realm associated with one's imagination. The original Journey Into Imagination relied on the metaphorical realm we are used to dealing with but there's an entire "behind the scenes" real world that can be explored.

I wonder if anyone has thought of using these free ranging vehicles for parts of the sets or the actual Animatronics themselves? It would be pretty wild to be chased around by a gigantic "bad idea"!!

Few know this, but the TDL Pooh Attraction has a dummy vehicle filled with "Heffalump Family" (kid even has flash camera and mouse hat) that is swapped out from your real counterparts (the other pot heads for a cannon) while you are directed elsewhere. When your vehicle spins back around you are surprised to see the humans "replaced" by Characters in their own vehicle spinning with you in the scene! Quite a shock.

 

[Omnispace]

Few know this, but the TDL Pooh Attraction has a dummy vehicle filled with "Heffalump Family" (kid even has flash camera and mouse hat) that is swapped out from your real counterparts (the other pot heads for a cannon) while you are directed elsewhere. When your vehicle spins back around you are surprised to see the humans "replaced" by Characters in their own vehicle spinning with you in the scene! Quite a shock.

That's very clever. I wish I could get to Tokyo to ride it sometime.