Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
george-lucas-1983-2005.jpg

The other thing about this image that strikes me, is that Lucas sources and employs his own ILM to do this stuff. So he's making money (I believe the Studio funds most of the project) on how he decides to do the effects. If ILM has gone CGI, so will he. Just a side note.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
There is a difference between taking reality and building on it or enhancing it, versus replacing it with CGI imagery. In "Sky Captain" the actors were real, but the environments were digital. Then they went over all of it later to key the colors to work together.

Yes, but this wasn't just 'correcting' they basically did the cinematopgraphy from the digital editors chair. It wasn't just 'fixing' it was all the artistic creation of the lighting, the mood, the emphasis - all digitially manipulated for the entire film. I really don't see the 'crime' in using CGI instead of models when the results work so well.

If we are going to harp on one guy for taking the 'easy' way with CGI vs doing models.. we shouldn't put a guy up as a model to follow when he 'cheated' exactly the same way just in another discipline of the movie experience.

From the original image.. was Lucas using models in the 70s because he believed they were the purest and best way to make his film? Or was he using them because he felt they were the best way to get the effect he wanted? He used the best tools and methods he had available to him at the time. He shouldn't be chastised for continuing to push to find the best new methods to make his films.. instead of just sticking to what people knew before.

I'm going on memory here.. but I thought the only scenes in LOTR that were done with models were the exterior flyarounds of the tower/castle stuff.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Yes, but this wasn't just 'correcting' they basically did the cinematopgraphy from the digital editors chair. It wasn't just 'fixing' it was all the artistic creation of the lighting, the mood, the emphasis - all digitially manipulated for the entire film. I really don't see the 'crime' in using CGI instead of models when the results work so well.

If we are going to harp on one guy for taking the 'easy' way with CGI vs doing models.. we shouldn't put a guy up as a model to follow when he 'cheated' exactly the same way just in another discipline of the movie experience.

From the original image.. was Lucas using models in the 70s because he believed they were the purest and best way to make his film? Or was he using them because he felt they were the best way to get the effect he wanted? He used the best tools and methods he had available to him at the time. He shouldn't be chastised for continuing to push to find the best new methods to make his films.. instead of just sticking to what people knew before.

I'm going on memory here.. but I thought the only scenes in LOTR that were done with models were the exterior flyarounds of the tower/castle stuff.

Good points...I'm no expert on LOTR, but I think you may have misunderstood me on Sky Captain. I think that was the right use of CGI all the way. There was lots of emotion there and it was because the CG was the backdrop to live actors.

I agree that Lucas used the best tool of his day and frankly lamented that the digital stuff was not invented yet. I guess my complaint lies mostly in the overuse of it, especially when they add tons of distracting effects that seem to get in the way of the actors.
 

StageFrenzy

Well-Known Member
I guess my complaint lies mostly in the overuse of it, especially when they add tons of distracting effects that seem to get in the way of the actors.

It's the classic Ewok line, if you are under a certain age Ewoks are awesome. Over the line they should be hunted down and stuffed like the teddy bears they appear to be. For the Sequels one character:

Jar Jar Binks
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
It's the classic Ewok line, if you are under a certain age Ewoks are awesome. Over the line they should be hunted down and stuffed like the teddy bears they appear to be. For the Sequels one character:

Jar Jar Binks

Can't stand JJB. Disneyland/MK has a similar situation in that kids tend to grow out of it and then mentally "come back". I think the thrill rides sustain them through this period. We have teens now and they cringe around the Princesses, the sappy shows and Goofy stuff like that, but still enjoy Star Tours, Space Mountain and attractions that skew older. This is why it's important to create a mix of attractions and shows so you grow up with the park, versus outgrowing it entirely. The history based attractions (SS Columbia, Mark Twain) fill another gap in this chain as satisfy a different type of escape and interest.
 

Goofy Kid

Member
I am an aspiring imagineer I love the history that goes with the Walt Disney saga. I think that people who really love Disney World love the story that goes with it. Do you find it hard keeping Walt's vision in sight.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
The vision.

I am an aspiring imagineer I love the history that goes with the Walt Disney saga. I think that people who really love Disney World love the story that goes with it. Do you find it hard keeping Walt's vision in sight.

The vision is easy to maintain mentally as it is pretty clear (although many see what is "Disney" very differently), it's finding a way to achieve that vision (or essence) within the business and public restraints that exist in today's world. Walt maintained his vision because he ran the place. When you are a "Cog" in a big machine that has quarterly needs, even a powerful "Cog" has to conform to goals that are sometimes counter to the vision and mission of the Man Walt Disney versus the brand Walt Disney. In the 70's it used to be "Look to the name Walt Disney for the finest in Family Entertainment". Not sure that's where they are headed or want to be anymore. Maybe that's one reason they dropped the "Walt" from the "Disney" brand in movies as they don't want to be restrained by his image and perception, or his moral compass of personal ideals.

I try and keep the Disney vision today even though I don't work there. I still believe in the quality, creativity, and kindling the upbuilding nature found in making people feel good about themselves and who they could be. As John Hench said, it's "reassurance", something this world provides very little of. To me, "every guest is still a VIP" on any project. Dignify everyone with a great experience. Any project should be approached by appealing to your better nature, not your baser instincts. Deliver honest emotions by designing from the same place. If you are "people driven" you won't have to be "profit driven". Give them more than they expect and dream of what they cannot imagine, and build that dream a little better than you thought you could. To me that process breeds success and trust. That is why the Disney brand is still around despite all the creative abuses and mismanagement, it has endured for the last few decades because it had that foundation.
 

Goofy Kid

Member
I plan on entering an engineering program in hopes of being lucky enough to become an imagineer. I was wondering if engineering is the proper degree or if graphic design or architecture would be better choices in order to become an imagineer, or do something like you do.
 

RandySavage

Well-Known Member
The vision is easy to maintain mentally as it is pretty clear (although many see what is "Disney" very differently), it's finding a way to achieve that vision (or essence) within the business and public restraints that exist in today's world. Walt maintained his vision because he ran the place. When you are a "Cog" in a big machine that has quarterly needs, even a powerful "Cog" has to conform to goals that are sometimes counter to the vision and mission of the Man Walt Disney versus the brand Walt Disney. In the 70's it used to be "Look to the name Walt Disney for the finest in Family Entertainment". Not sure that's where they are headed or want to be anymore. Maybe that's one reason they dropped the "Walt" from the "Disney" brand in movies as they don't want to be restrained by his image and perception, or his moral compass of personal ideals.

I try and keep the Disney vision today even though I don't work there. I still believe in the quality, creativity, and kindling the upbuilding nature found in making people feel good about themselves and who they could be. As John Hench said, it's "reassurance", something this world provides very little of. To me, "every guest is still a VIP" on any project. Dignify everyone with a great experience. Any project should be approached by appealing to your better nature, not your baser instincts. Deliver honest emotions by designing from the same place. If you are "people driven" you won't have to be "profit driven". Give them more than they expect and dream of what they cannot imagine, and build that dream a little better than you thought you could. To me that process breeds success and trust. That is why the Disney brand is still around despite all the creative abuses and mismanagement, it has endured for the last few decades because it had that foundation.

Brilliantly worded!
 

Hyperion

New Member
The vision is easy to maintain mentally as it is pretty clear (although many see what is "Disney" very differently), it's finding a way to achieve that vision (or essence) within the business and public restraints that exist in today's world. Walt maintained his vision because he ran the place. When you are a "Cog" in a big machine that has quarterly needs, even a powerful "Cog" has to conform to goals that are sometimes counter to the vision and mission of the Man Walt Disney versus the brand Walt Disney. In the 70's it used to be "Look to the name Walt Disney for the finest in Family Entertainment". Not sure that's where they are headed or want to be anymore. Maybe that's one reason they dropped the "Walt" from the "Disney" brand in movies as they don't want to be restrained by his image and perception, or his moral compass of personal ideals.

I try and keep the Disney vision today even though I don't work there. I still believe in the quality, creativity, and kindling the upbuilding nature found in making people feel good about themselves and who they could be. As John Hench said, it's "reassurance", something this world provides very little of. To me, "every guest is still a VIP" on any project. Dignify everyone with a great experience. Any project should be approached by appealing to your better nature, not your baser instincts. Deliver honest emotions by designing from the same place. If you are "people driven" you won't have to be "profit driven". Give them more than they expect and dream of what they cannot imagine, and build that dream a little better than you thought you could. To me that process breeds success and trust. That is why the Disney brand is still around despite all the creative abuses and mismanagement, it has endured for the last few decades because it had that foundation.
:sohappy:Second that. Thank you for that great clarification. It helps restore my hope and confidence in the community.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
You just say what you feel

When you grow up as a kid being deeply transfixed buy something, you can spend the rest of your adult life trying to figure out why you were so moved by it. We discuss here both the preservation of those memories and the future of their ethics and vision.

In my case, it was how to continue the tradition in a way that would instill the same emotions that moved me as a child while not forgetting how to feel that same way when it comes. We all have different feelings as to what "Disney" is and what moves us, but at the core, there is a maniacal passion that fuels the product in a way that the viewer can sense. Disney on a good day, never sets out to be art, is not self conscious, but is childlike and curious, it takes us with it on an adventure. ("Toad had a NEW mania"- Wind in the Willows). It moves us out of it's own desire and passion for the theme or story. The Imagineer leads and defines the "lands" for us and entertains along the way. We fall in love with the "world" we're in as we are with the Imagineer as they uncover and reveal the things they find exciting and of value to us.

I always loved the story of the "Adventure thru Inner Space" Attraction. We are traveling along the "thoughtwaves" of the first impressions of our guide.

I guess what i'm saying is that we have the special honor of being curators of story and build what will add up to the best cumulative experience. A weighty task indeed!
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
Eddie - I don't know if it's been mentioned in your thread here or not... But I figured since you're IN the book, you wouldn't mind if it was posted...

I saw over on micechat that they're putting together a "wait list" of sorts for one more print run of "Disneyland Paris: From Sketch to Reality".

This is the best book I've ever seen covering a Disney park. It's extremely impossible to locate, and if you can find one, insanely expensive.

It's not a cheap book... It's looks like they're going to charge about $200 if they get enough people together to print it. But the book is just amazing, and certainly highlights a good deal of Eddie's work.

I can't stress it enough... This could be the last chance to add literally the BEST Disney Parks book to your library.
 

CBOMB

Active Member

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Eddie - I don't know if it's been mentioned in your thread here or not... But I figured since you're IN the book, you wouldn't mind if it was posted...

I saw over on micechat that they're putting together a "wait list" of sorts for one more print run of "Disneyland Paris: From Sketch to Reality".

This is the best book I've ever seen covering a Disney park. It's extremely impossible to locate, and if you can find one, insanely expensive.

It's not a cheap book... It's looks like they're going to charge about $200 if they get enough people together to print it. But the book is just amazing, and certainly highlights a good deal of Eddie's work.

I can't stress it enough... This could be the last chance to add literally the BEST Disney Parks book to your library.

Agree, it's a great book. A must for any Disneyphile.

Here's the best way to find out and get yours.
http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2012/02/disneyland-paris-book-from-sketch-to.html

Hmm.
 

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