Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Vernonpush]

We tend to deify the Animators, but I saw this article that raised my eyebrows and showed that some of the later films had an all too familiar look to them. Check this article out on how they boldly traced and recycled scenes from one movie to another. History literally repeats itself. Disney Deja-Vu.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1172316/Scene-How-Disney-recycled-classic-cartoons.html

The video is here. 2 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSt6QMIaIQQ

Some of the segments in the videos are "recycled" from the same movie. I think that is more of a "character development trait" than recycleing. The last scene in Part 2 of that video (Sword in the Stone) is a good example of setting up the character of "clumbsy olf" rather than just recycleing (being cheap)

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Some of the segments in the videos are "recycled" from the same movie. I think that is more of a "character development trait" than recycleing. The last scene in Part 2 of that video (Sword in the Stone) is a good example of setting up the character of "clumbsy olf" rather than just recycleing (being cheap)

Agree, there are better examples like the Jungle Book/Pooh comparison.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Initially, your choices are keep themed queue, or build lame cheap queues that no one looks at, since they are on their phones, and you save money. It's not just smartphones, it's also FastPass. Look at Soarin in Orlando - cheap lame FP queue, but they spend no time there, so it's fine. The Standby queue is so long and unmoving, though, it needed interactivity (whether that attraction's "game" is interesting is another question, though).

The new Pooh queue is more interactive for the Standby line, and utilitarian for FP as well.

WDI using digital technology (Kim Possible phones, RFID sorcerer cards, etc) is really them "fighting fire with fire." The Pooh queue fights fire (digital distraction) with water (real world objects and games). KP and SotMK fight fire (digital distraction) with fire (digital distraction). Except unlike the latest iPhone app, SotMK is a) Disney branded, b) theoretically something the whole family can do together.

If I were an Imagineer or Jim McPhee, I'd be doing the same thing. There's little sense in fighting fire with water anymore. The horse has left the barn! (to mix metaphors)

What they could do, though, and I hope they are, is pushing the envelope. Want to get people talking about how awesome the lines are at Walt Disney World? Then inject them with augmented reality devices that have a real 'wow' factor, like the ability to see "through" a wall. Or surface-touch computing (think minority report). If the technology is advanced enough, people will chatter excitedly. I like to think that the $1 billion on NextGen is going to bring us real 'wow' stuff soon. If done right, it really could make people excited about standing in line.

To me, making technology something you can all "share" versus isolating each guest should be at the heart of these projects. It's good to engage the technology versus ignoring it, but it's what you do that counts.

 

[Jeanine]

You are the Imagineer. Here's a fundamental question WDI is no doubt wrestling with. We see people distracted by their phones in line and in the parks. Heads down instead of heads up enjoying the environment. Families are individually distracted as well. Do you ignore it and accept that that's where we are? Engage it with these games as we see in NextGen? or try and fight it externally with entertainment or other things that make you put the phone down, like an interactive queue? All or none of the above? (Maybe you are not reading this as you are texting your friends)

It seems to me that the phones and tablets that we travel around with nowadays are sufficiently advanced so as to make fighting fire with fire a losing proposition. When I've gone through the Space Mountain or Soarin' queues, I rarely see more than a handful of people making more than a token attempt to play the games--I think it's because there's no video game they can put up there, that's suitable for all ages, that's going to be competitive with the games or books or movies someone has personally selected and placed on their own phone. The queues that seem a little more successful require some sort of physical interaction that a touch screen can't provide, such as Haunted Mansion or Pooh.

I would think that the best chance they have of removing people from the virtual world is to give them a real three-dimensional environment that has a sense of place they really can't get (yet) electronically. Ironically, that seems to be precisely the sort of thing from which they are currently turning away.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I would think that the best chance they have of removing people from the virtual world is to give them a real three-dimensional environment that has a sense of place they really can't get (yet) electronically. Ironically, that seems to be precisely the sort of thing from which they are currently turning away.

I'm with you. When you create an environment where you cannot predict what will happen next, you got 'em. i love to watch people waiting for the wicked queen to reveal herself in the tower above DL's Snow White. BTW- No one is texting in the HM portrait hallway, and in effect that is a queue for the doom buggies. That's because they are engaged. It's not to say that you skip doing any kind of Disney mobile in park thing, but I wouldn't abandon the queue and hand it over either. Interactive queues are their alternative to that and it seems to be working to a degree. I'm sure they will evolve those queues as they learn from them, but there is attention being given to it.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I would think that the best chance they have of removing people from the virtual world is to give them a real three-dimensional environment that has a sense of place they really can't get (yet) electronically. Ironically, that seems to be precisely the sort of thing from which they are currently turning away.

I'm with you. When you create an environment where you cannot predict what will happen next, you got 'em. I love to watch people waiting for the Wicked Queen to reveal herself in the tower above DL's Snow White. BTW- No one is texting in the HM portrait hallway, and in effect that is a queue for the doom buggies. That's because they are engaged. It's not to say that you skip doing any kind of Disney mobile in park thing, but I wouldn't abandon the queue and hand it over either. Interactive queues are their alternative to that and it seems to be working to a degree. I'm sure they will evolve those queues as they learn from them, but there is attention being given to it.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

We tend to deify the Animators, but I saw this article that raised my eyebrows and showed that some of the later films had an all too familiar look to them. Check this article out on how they boldly traced and recycled scenes from one movie to another. History literally repeats itself. Disney Deja-Vu.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1172316/Scene-How-Disney-recycled-classic-cartoons.html

The video is here. 2 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSt6QMIaIQQ

Some side-by-side examples for easier comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM13nF6JScA&feature=endscreen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKER9K9QozA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSuxtK6AHz8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIeHIcD0ktk&feature=related

Part of the charm of Enchanted - an overlooked movie of unmitigated brillance - is the movie playing with the Disney animation heritage of traditons, cliches and copy-pastes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQycJspXaVs&feature=endscreen
Some is cost-cutting, some is using a quick short-cut, some is tribute, some is tradition, some is drawing from the same well.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Jeanine- great post! I agree 100%. If Disney makes something guests cannot duplicate in their real or virtual world, the company can keep them engaged.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I don't know if there's anything TO do except live with it. People these days will whip out their phones in the middle of a face to face conversation. Some people use them while driving! I don't know what Disney could do beyond confiscating them or constantly splashing the park guests with water (and then selling Disney brand waterproof smartphone cases).

Make the whole park a series of Canoe Rides. It's harder to text when you're paddling.

Seriously, this is a form of addiction to some, and the result of boredom to others. We live in a society when there is an "attention economy". Whomever has your attention has the best shot of making money from you. Advertising is based on attention and so the more time and better quality of attention is spent on a website, magazine, billboard or TV show, the more they can charge for the ad. The admission of the park is based on the value of undivided immersion in that park and the pleasure it brings as an escape. To me, Guests using their phones in the park is a form of "channel surfing". Studies prove that multitasking is really a myth as you are moving your attention for the most part to whatever you're looking at and pretty much ignoring for the moment the other thing. The question is, how well does park's immersion "spell" hold up to the constant "channel surfing" in and out of other realities? On one hand, families and their in person conversations distract and in many ways enhance the visit as you are sharing it. To that point, the person on the other end of the device is just an "invisible family member" that is not present. I call this kind of social interaction, the "ghost layer". It's the amount of guests experiencing the park remotely though those who are there.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Make the whole park a series of Canoe Rides. It's harder to text when you're paddling.

Seriously, this is a form of addiction to some, and the result of boredom to others. We live in a society when there is an "attention economy". Whomever has your attention has the best shot of making money from you. Advertising is based on attention and so the more time and better quality of attention is spent on a website, magazine, billboard or TV show, the more they can charge for the ad. The admission of the park is based on the value of undivided immersion in that park and the pleasure it brings as an escape. To me, Guests using their phones in the park is a form of "channel surfing". Studies prove that multitasking is really a myth as you are moving your attention for the most part to whatever you're looking at and pretty much ignoring for the moment the other thing. The question is, how well does park's immersion "spell" hold up to the constant "channel surfing" in and out of other realities? On one hand, families and their in person conversations distract and in many ways enhance the visit as you are sharing it. To that point, the person on the other end of the device is just an "invisible family member" that is not present. I call this kind of social interaction, the "ghost layer". It's the amount of guests experiencing the park remotely though those who are there.

I am still not entirely convinced that this lack of attention span is anything new. Along with the increase in personal, portable entertainment devices there has also been a change in how themed entertainment is experienced, a correlation that I am of the opinion needs closer examination. Angus Wynne made the first big change with single admission for unlimited attractions, then came seasonal and annual passes, which has all lead up to an increase in repeat visitors. Themed entertainment, being a built environment, does not change much, and as one visits more often there is less to discover along with a sense of arrogance regarding "knowing" the experience, all of which make for a less captivating experience. It's like watching a film multiple times, no matter how great or deep of a film it may be, it eventually wears on you and becomes boring.

 

[WDW1974]

You are the Imagineer. Here's a fundamental question WDI is no doubt wrestling with. We see people distracted by their phones in line and in the parks. Heads down instead of heads up enjoying the environment. Families are individually distracted as well. Do you ignore it and accept that that's where we are? Engage it with these games as we see in NextGen? or try and fight it externally with entertainment or other things that make you put the phone down, like an interactive queue? All or none of the above? (Maybe you are not reading this as you are texting your friends)

Great question ... and one I was pondering in a thread I started about Kevin's recent column on the SotMK game where I was a bit harsh on his opinions (but felt they deserved some criticism!)

I may well be in the minority (doesn't mean the opinion isn't actually the best for everyone either!) but I believe you fight it in every way you can. And that even means telling folks they aren't allowed in attractions or need to be powered off (you know they could do this at TDR and everyone would listen while in the USA -- and likely Europe and China -- you'd get lots of ignoring).

But we're beyond the point where you just let it go because it can impact and ruin other guests' visits. Nothing like standing to watch Wishes and seeing 237 people around you taping the whole show and not even watching it ... or people using flashes, phones etc on PoC etc.

If people need added stimulation then it's up to Disney to provide it. If someone would rather post to FB than look around their Doombuggy then I'd suggest they stay the hell home. It's just burning money anyway.

But I see more of the phone deal at WDW and DL than overseas and more at inappropriate times and places.

 

[WDW1974]

I'm with you. When you create an environment where you cannot predict what will happen next, you got 'em. I love to watch people waiting for the Wicked Queen to reveal herself in the tower above DL's Snow White. BTW- No one is texting in the HM portrait hallway, and in effect that is a queue for the doom buggies. That's because they are engaged. It's not to say that you skip doing any kind of Disney mobile in park thing, but I wouldn't abandon the queue and hand it over either. Interactive queues are their alternative to that and it seems to be working to a degree. I'm sure they will evolve those queues as they learn from them, but there is attention being given to it.

BINGO!

If people aren't bored, then 99% of them won't be tempted to play with toys they brought to the party.

The parks are the biggest immersive toys in the world and the idea that anything on a tiny smartphone screen or slightly larger iPad (which I am actually going to finally purchase!) is somehow better is laughable unless Disney fails to do its job in engaging its audience. It really is that simple.

And interactive queues aren't quite a panacea either. They have made Pooh so loud from throngs of screaming brats that I had to step out of line in October as it was actually giving me a very bad headache. And since that is aimed at the under-8 crowd one would think Disney is actually helping to condition a new generation to thie bad mindset where they need constant stimulation.

Pray it doesn't come to Anaheim.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I am still not entirely convinced that this lack of attention span is anything new. Along with the increase in personal, portable entertainment devices there has also been a change in how themed entertainment is experienced, a correlation that I am of the opinion needs closer examination. Angus Wynne made the first big change with single admission for unlimited attractions, then came seasonal and annual passes, which has all lead up to an increase in repeat visitors. Themed entertainment, being a built environment, does not change much, and as one visits more often there is less to discover along with a sense of arrogance regarding "knowing" the experience, all of which make for a less captivating experience. It's like watching a film multiple times, no matter how great or deep of a film it may be, it eventually wears on you and becomes boring.

Agree. So true. Excellent addition to this discussion. There is a wear out factor from too many repeat visits that changes the way a guest experiences the attractions. They become interactive rituals like the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" . How many times have you been in the HM stretching room only to hear a group recite the script along with the host? So having said that, there is an opportunity to entertain the AP's on another level of story or immersion as long as it does not distract from the environment or the other guests. I think NextGen is trying to address this. That's where the "surprises" or lack of predictability comes in.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

BINGO!

If people aren't bored, then 99% of them won't be tempted to play with toys they brought to the party.

The parks are the biggest immersive toys in the world and the idea that anything on a tiny smartphone screen or slightly larger iPad (which I am actually going to finally purchase!) is somehow better is laughable unless Disney fails to do its job in engaging its audience. It really is that simple.

And interactive queues aren't quite a panacea either. They have made Pooh so loud from throngs of screaming brats that I had to step out of line in October as it was actually giving me a very bad headache. And since that is aimed at the under-8 crowd one would think Disney is actually helping to condition a new generation to thie bad mindset where they need constant stimulation.

Pray it doesn't come to Anaheim.

The thing that makes the "tiny screen" more engaging is that it is NOW and is happening to you. I was told by one of the carnival operators that Walt used to query that "the best rides are the ones where everything happens to you". The queue is not happening at all and especially not to you. The phone or text is engaging you and it's personal. Hard act to follow, especially if you are addicted to the stimulus/response aspect. It can be done but will take some real creativity. Moving versus standing has a lot to do with it too. When the queue does not move for a while, the device kicks in to pass the time and in a way that's a good thing. Waiting an hour for a 3 minute ride and having it feel like 2 hours, makes it hard for that ride to live up to expectations. In a way the device helps you not feel the pain. Of course, the whole experience being fun would help.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

BINGO!

If people aren't bored, then 99% of them won't be tempted to play with toys they brought to the party.

The parks are the biggest immersive toys in the world and the idea that anything on a tiny smartphone screen or slightly larger iPad (which I am actually going to finally purchase!) is somehow better is laughable unless Disney fails to do its job in engaging its audience. It really is that simple.

And interactive queues aren't quite a panacea either. They have made Pooh so loud from throngs of screaming brats that I had to step out of line in October as it was actually giving me a very bad headache. And since that is aimed at the under-8 crowd one would think Disney is actually helping to condition a new generation to thie bad mindset where they need constant stimulation.

Pray it doesn't come to Anaheim.

Have not heard about that aspect of noise and chaos.

 

[HMF]

BINGO!

If people aren't bored, then 99% of them won't be tempted to play with toys they brought to the party.

The parks are the biggest immersive toys in the world and the idea that anything on a tiny smartphone screen or slightly larger iPad (which I am actually going to finally purchase!) is somehow better is laughable unless Disney fails to do its job in engaging its audience. It really is that simple.

And interactive queues aren't quite a panacea either. They have made Pooh so loud from throngs of screaming brats that I had to step out of line in October as it was actually giving me a very bad headache. And since that is aimed at the under-8 crowd one would think Disney is actually helping to condition a new generation to thie bad mindset where they need constant stimulation.

Pray it doesn't come to Anaheim.

The Haunted Mansion Queue is even worse. This next-gen BS is getting WAY out of hand.

 

[dhall]

I am still not entirely convinced that this lack of attention span is anything new. Along with the increase in personal, portable entertainment devices there has also been a change in how themed entertainment is experienced, a correlation that I am of the opinion needs closer examination. Angus Wynne made the first big change with single admission for unlimited attractions, then came seasonal and annual passes, which has all lead up to an increase in repeat visitors. Themed entertainment, being a built environment, does not change much, and as one visits more often there is less to discover along with a sense of arrogance regarding "knowing" the experience, all of which make for a less captivating experience. It's like watching a film multiple times, no matter how great or deep of a film it may be, it eventually wears on you and becomes boring.

The shorter attention span is definitely real, but I'm not convinced that it's necessarily a wholly bad thing. I know I would've loved to have a portable device back in the ticket days when I'd regularly wait in 45-60 minute lines, particularly in Fantasyland where the queues were the tightly packed switchbacks. Back then, if the line was under an hour, I was good; now, if it's more that 20 minutes, I'll find something else to do.

If the shorter attention span is real, it's not necessarily all that new. I remember when the original "Highlander" movie came out -- one of the most common comments about the movie was the use of editing techniques that were straight out of music videos: fast jump cuts and strange angles (for the time). Older viewers and commentators really found it hard to follow and hated the movie. Here we are 25 years later and the pace of the movie is considered fairly sedate.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Agree. So true. Excellent addition to this discussion. There is a wear out factor from too many repeat visits that changes the way a guest experiences the attractions. They become interactive rituals like the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" . How many times have you been in the HM stretching room only to hear a group recite the script along with the host? So having said that, there is an opportunity to entertain the AP's on another level of story or immersion as long as it does not distract from the environment or the other guests. I think NextGen is trying to address this. That's where the "surprises" or lack of predictability comes in.

My problem with a lot of these new layers is that they often mock the reality being created by the immediate layer. They're jokes and references that remind one that this is all fake. In my view, the added layers should create a deeper sense of reality. It is one thing to have the occasional hidden Mickey as an actual inside joke, but deliberately making them a design motif and then advertising them on your official blog is completely different.

This is part of my problem with what has been seen so far from NextGen, primarily The Haunted Mansion queue. Once you've solved the "Who killed who?" mystery it is done. The noises are the same each time. The water squirts just the same, unless the effect is broken. And to figure out a lot of the design motifs and references one must go online and research, and sometimes heavily, the design history. Long Forgotten shows how knowledge of ghost lore enriches the Mansion experience, but in the new queue one must know the lore and the Disney digestion of these elements for it to all make sense. It is a layering that is more and more inwardly focused. Looking externally, I think the layers should make the experience more hyperreal, not more fake.

The shorter attention span is definitely real, but I'm not convinced that it's necessarily a wholly bad thing. I know I would've loved to have a portable device back in the ticket days when I'd regularly wait in 45-60 minute lines, particularly in Fantasyland where the queues were the tightly packed switchbacks. Back then, if the line was under an hour, I was good; now, if it's more that 20 minutes, I'll find something else to do.

If the shorter attention span is real, it's not necessarily all that new. I remember when the original "Highlander" movie came out -- one of the most common comments about the movie was the use of editing techniques that were straight out of music videos: fast jump cuts and strange angles (for the time). Older viewers and commentators really found it hard to follow and hated the movie. Here we are 25 years later and the pace of the movie is considered fairly sedate.

I think you undermine your claim that attention spans have become shorter. You admit to wanting other distractions, indicating that it was there. You now refuse long waits probably more because you are now more away of more instant alternatives.

 

[HMF]

This is part of my problem with what has been seen so far from NextGen, primarily The Haunted Mansion queue. Once you've solved the "Who killed who?" mystery it is done. The noises are the same each time. The water squirts just the same, unless the effect is broken. And to figure out a lot of the design motifs and references one must go online and research, and sometimes heavily, the design history. Long Forgotten shows how knowledge of ghost lore enriches the Mansion experience, but in the new queue one must know the lore and the Disney digestion of these elements for it to all make sense. It is a layering that is more and more inwardly focused. Looking externally, I think the layers should make the experience more hyperreal, not more fake.

I personally hope that most of the effects in the Haunted Mansion Queue stop working in the near future since they detract rather than add to the experience. Yes, I would actually prefer these particular effects broken.

 

[dhall]

I think you undermine your claim that attention spans have become shorter. You admit to wanting other distractions, indicating that it was there. You now refuse long waits probably more because you are now more away of more instant alternatives.

I think I'd contend that the shorter attention span is real, but not a last 5-10 year thing. If the folks that grew up watching MTV are complaining about how short the internet generation's attention span is, then some of us who predate music videos would like to perhaps help separate the pots from the kettles.