Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[RandySavage]

I have only one question for Mr. Sotto... in twenty-seven parts: "Could you (a) describe in detail and (b) provide design illustrations (concept art, elevations, blueprints, photos of models, etc.) of all the attractions, lands & parks that you & your associates worked on during your tenure at WDI that have hitherto been unknown to the general public ((e.g. StarShip, SciFi City, etc.)?"

You've done quite a bit of the description part here on the thread, and I've greatly appreciated it.

My question reflects my chief interest with respect to Disney: the design phase of the parks & attractions, particularly the visual materials. I gobble up all the books/articles/websites that feature this kind of stuff. The problem is, as you know, the visual pieces don't easily escape the vaults of WDI... and when they do get published, it is only under the Disney banner.

 

[devoy1701]

I'm considering it. Not sure if it wants to be a business/experiential design trade publication, or historically Disney, touching on the types of topics we discuss here. No gossip, just passing along some of the things I've picked up from those "Legends" that were kind enough to share their knowledge. What would you want to read?

I guess I need to get busy! The fact is that you can buy a series of books (Walt's People) now that have interviews with the legends that albeit not linear, tell that story. My take would come mostly from the relationships I had with different designers and their advice on how to approach creating themed experiences. I guess we have touched on most of these things in the last 300 or more pages on this thread, but would love to tell those stories again in depth, in a more organized and elegant way.

http://www.amazon.com/Walts-People-Talking-Disney-Artists/dp/1413478670

I would love to hear about the projects you've worked on, not just the wow-factor or the things that didn't get built. But the trials and tribulations encountered during design, build, post-completion. It's great insight (and great story) to hear that projects and relationships don't always go right (especially at TWDC). It would also be interesting to see how the company changed and you changed from when you started to when you left, to now when you look back.

I know i can read it hear, but I would pay to read it again and as you said, "in a more organized and elegant way."

 

[devoy1701]

If you could only ask me one question (you can actually ask more as many of you know!) what would it be and why?

My one question would also be a multi-part... lol

Was working at Imagineering your dream job...was it still your dream job when you left...what made you leave and could it have been avoided...and would you ever go back to Imagineering?

see what I did there?

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for the input. I have gathered my stories from this thread so I have them as a reference, but more importantly, I think the real world experience is a valuable sidebar to why design ends up as it does...compromised. The fun part could be, not just a point of view on design, but helping those to understand how to navigate those deadly waters to execute things that are what they hoped for. That's where the stories come in. I usually limit my answers because I'm a horrid and slow typist so there is more to most every tale that is left out. An audiobook or podcast series that becomes one appeals to me.

Design is where it's at. (a WDI tell-all aside ... and if you ever want to do that, I'm your co-author!:wave

That's what you are so talented at. Not simply your work/experience, but explaining to people without that background the hows, whys and whats about the process. And how sometimes you start with one thing and wind up in a vastly different place.

A focus on Disney and Disney anecdotes alone (or largely) would be a mistake unless you're looking to do a largely vanity project. Everyone and their podcaster has a Disney book today. And after a while, all of it blends together and it's all (again, excepting the tell-all) been done so many times.

I picked up Jeff Kurtti's latest book (DL through the Decades) when I was out there last month. It's nice. Has pretty photos. I found it annoying with its PR use of Disneyland PARK and Haunted Mansion ATTRACTION and Disneyland RESORT etc. (but that all is dictated thru corporate) but it is a nice book. The thing is its starts with an anecdote by Marty Sklar basically telling Jeff that 'it's all been done before' and therefore you expect something different.

And ...?

You don't get it. What's even worse is you get excerpts of other books about DL thrown into this one.

Fanbois have the creation of DL memorized. They know all about 99.9% of attractions that no longer exist and 95% about attractions proposed that never were built. Covering that stuff is just super-sizing what already is too much of what is out there.

That's why I really think it's the focus on design (both Disney and beyond) that would be an interesting read and would actually sell copies across many demos (beyond the fanboi one that you'd own!)

~GFC~

 

[Daannzzz]

Eddie, Can you look back and see a correlation between what you were attracted to and found fascinating when you were growing up and design work at WDI and further.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Design is where it's at. (a WDI tell-all aside ... and if you ever want to do that, I'm your co-author!:wave

That's what you are so talented at. Not simply your work/experience, but explaining to people without that background the hows, whys and whats about the process. And how sometimes you start with one thing and wind up in a vastly different place.

A focus on Disney and Disney anecdotes alone (or largely) would be a mistake unless you're looking to do a largely vanity project. Everyone and their podcaster has a Disney book today. And after a while, all of it blends together and it's all (again, excepting the tell-all) been done so many times.

I picked up Jeff Kurtti's latest book (DL through the Decades) when I was out there last month. It's nice. Has pretty photos. I found it annoying with its PR use of Disneyland PARK and Haunted Mansion ATTRACTION and Disneyland RESORT etc. (but that all is dictated thru corporate) but it is a nice book. The thing is its starts with an anecdote by Marty Sklar basically telling Jeff that 'it's all been done before' and therefore you expect something different.

And ...?

You don't get it. What's even worse is you get excerpts of other books about DL thrown into this one.

Fanbois have the creation of DL memorized. They know all about 99.9% of attractions that no longer exist and 95% about attractions proposed that never were built. Covering that stuff is just super-sizing what already is too much of what is out there.

That's why I really think it's the focus on design (both Disney and beyond) that would be an interesting read and would actually sell copies across many demos (beyond the fanboi one that you'd own!)

~GFC~

Thank you for taking the time to give me your thoughts. Most appreciated and I must say I agree with your assessment.
.

Scary as it seems to stay this, I've been doing entertainment design for over 30 years and only 13 of them were at Disney. Disney has been the genesis of my love of creating "escapes" and immersive "worlds", but design is "solving" and that serves a wider audience. I think I've been able to craft a "solutions" process that can be applied to products, branding, and innovation, owing itself in part to many of the 1G Imagineers and film designers that were kind enough to share their experience. They of course, came from film and that art form is where it all experience design begins. So I think covering Disney as it applies to the "how" of design or the "why" might be useful and I agree that most fans already know about the Viewliner.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

My one question would also be a multi-part... lol

Was working at Imagineering your dream job...was it still your dream job when you left...what made you leave and could it have been avoided...and would you ever go back to Imagineering?

see what I did there?

Yes it was my dream job, and I left for two reasons, one, my childhood dream had been realized, and two, because I could not progress any further under the then current management. There was little or no autonomy and nothing "next level" to do. I had become a Senior Vice President of Concept Design. Things were slowing down and innovation was on the downturn under Paul Pressler. It was a tough time for him as well. DCA and that level of quality was the new way of doing business and I did not want those kinds of assignments. I need to be pushed to do more than I'm capable of, as the impossible is where the fun is, not dressing up carnival rides and things like that. I think if I had been given a position in Disney Interactive doing the Virtual Disneyland or something where I learned the internet as a platform then I would have stayed. They were not ready to do that. I felt that
I needed to reinvent myself and the web was where I wanted to re emerge. I was offered a very large sum to leave to be the CCO of a internet company, so I left. The net company died 9 months later so eventually I formed my own studio and have been successful ever since.

Yes, I might consider going back, but the assignment would have to be insanely interesting. I began a design studio that lets me do what I'm good at and make good money, so I'm pretty happy. The work we do today in my opinion is a career peak, so there must be something to a non corporate workflow that allows you to deliver beyond Disney quality and still be happy. It can be done!

I will always love WED and am a fan. I began this thread in part to shed light on what really goes into design and the challenges Imagineers face just to get the tiniest thing through, not just the fun that it's imagined to be, so yes, I'm a supporter. It's not as black and white as the "management is the villain" stuff either, Imagineers are accountable too.

Thanks for asking.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, Can you look back and see a correlation between what you were attracted to and found fascinating when you were growing up and design work at WDI and further.

Yes. For sure. It's scary. I was a Disneyland fan from age 5 as I told a friend then that I wanted to grow up to be the guy that thinks of the rides.

I love the fakery of make believe. The first time I went to Universal Studios (8 yrs old) and saw the false fronts of the backlot I was hooked. Rubber shingles and fiberglas bricks. I still love to go to Warner Bros. and stroll their backlot. Same with touring Fox Studios (10 yrs old). The massive set for "Hello Dolly!" that we toured at the time became the inspiration for Main Street in Paris more than 20 years later. I loved James Bond and all things spies too. The Aston Martin project we did was straight out of a Bond film, the music at Encounter was right out of my parent record collection. The Spike Jones music I loved as a teen became part of the ride soundtracks we did at Knott's. It goes on and on.

I think above all, I love creating seamless make-believe worlds. At heart I wish I was a time traveller.

 

[ChrisFL]

Yes. For sure. It's scary. I was a Disneyland fan from age 5 as I told a friend then that I wanted to grow up to be the guy that thinks of the rides.

I love the fakery of make believe. The first time I went to Universal Studios (8 yrs old) and saw the false fronts of the backlot I was hooked. Rubber shingles and fiberglas bricks. I still love to go to Warner Bros. and stroll their backlot. Same with touring Fox Studios (10 yrs old). The massive set for "Hello Dolly!" that we toured at the time became the inspiration for Main Street in Paris more than 20 years later. I loved James Bond and all things spies too. The Aston Martin project we did was straight out of a Bond film, the music at Encounter was right out of my parent record collection. The Spike Jones music I loved as a teen became part of the ride soundtracks we did at Knott's. It goes on and on.

I think above all, I love creating seamless make-believe worlds. At heart I wish I was a time traveller.

This post sums up a lot about what I think the key of imagineering is...the personal touches that can't be done by focus groups and think tanks...its about what made things special for that one person, and what they wanted to create and share with the rest of the world.

 

[thehowiet]

Hey Eddie, not a question but more of a comment about your potential book. I think you hit on this earlier, probably more than once, but I think at least a part of the book would be very valuable to many if it talked about the obstacles of designing themed experiences and how they might be overcome, including examples.

There's something to be said about someone with the ability to overcome challenges on a daily basis as I'm sure that is a big part of your work. I think that the audience, even if they aren't in the field and never plan on being in the field, could really benefit from this as some of the same principles may still be applied to their own work or life.

I'm a huge fan of using real life examples or scenarios to demonstrate application as I feel a lot of authors tell you where you should end up but miss the part about getting there, if that makes any sense. Tell me what I should do, then tell me how to do it.

I think I'd also like to read about what you think lies in store for the future of themed experiences. Things that you think one day may be possible, but that might not exist yet because the technology just isn't there yet or other factors.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I have only one question for Mr. Sotto... in twenty-seven parts: "Could you (a) describe in detail and (b) provide design illustrations (concept art, elevations, blueprints, photos of models, etc.) of all the attractions, lands & parks that you & your associates worked on during your tenure at WDI that have hitherto been unknown to the general public ((e.g. StarShip, SciFi City, etc.)?"

You've done quite a bit of the description part here on the thread, and I've greatly appreciated it.

My question reflects my chief interest with respect to Disney: the design phase of the parks & attractions, particularly the visual materials. I gobble up all the books/articles/websites that feature this kind of stuff. The problem is, as you know, the visual pieces don't easily escape the vaults of WDI... and when they do get published, it is only under the Disney banner.

I understand your interest as it was mine as well! I think most of whatever could be shown is pretty much out there already. What isn't is in that vastly little vault you speak of.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hey Eddie, not a question but more of a comment about your potential book. I think you hit on this earlier, probably more than once, but I think at least a part of the book would be very valuable to many if it talked about the obstacles of designing themed experiences and how they might be overcome, including examples.

There's something to be said about someone with the ability to overcome challenges on a daily basis as I'm sure that is a big part of your work. I think that the audience, even if they aren't in the field and never plan on being in the field, could really benefit from this as some of the same principles may still be applied to their own work or life.

I'm a huge fan of using real life examples or scenarios to demonstrate application as I feel a lot of authors tell you where you should end up but miss the part about getting there, if that makes any sense. Tell me what I should do, then tell me how to do it.

I think I'd also like to read about what you think lies in store for the future of themed experiences. Things that you think one day may be possible, but that might not exist yet because the technology just isn't there yet or other factors.

Most of my career has been spent "fixing" things. I rarely got a blank sheet of paper, but rather an attraction or project that was not meeting expectation and reinventing it. the first project I ever had was solving a lawsuit prone ride by redesigning it into a safer, but marketable project. My pet project that was designed from scratch never got built, but the projects where you were solving a problem usually got funded.

 

[HMF]

It's not as black and white as the "management is the villain" stuff either, Imagineers are accountable too.

I think this is critical. There is a large faction of the fan base who blame management for everything and WDI can do no wrong. There are some ideas that Imagineers have come up with that are just bad and just because the budget was good does not mean it is quality or thematically appropriate. In those cases the blame lies solely on WDI.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I think this is critical. There is a large faction of the fan base who blame management for everything and WDI can do no wrong. There are some ideas that Imagineers have come up with that are just bad and just because the budget was good does not mean it is quality or thematically appropriate. In those cases the blame lies solely on WDI.

Guilty as charged.

 

[krash9924]

Mr. Sotto,

If I only had one question for you, it would be this.


What would you deem your great accomplishment of your career?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Jobs and Lasseter video interview

Really cool old interview with Jobs and Lasseter on the birth of Pixar.

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/pixar/steve-jobs-and-john-lasseter-1995.html

 

[lazyboy97o]

My one question, what was your biggest failure?

 

[rsoxguy]

Eddie,
As we approach the holidays, I'm wondering something about imagineering. How big of an emphasis is placed on holiday "special stuff", as opposed to everyday planning? Is there a 12 month emphasis on making the holidays special, or do the holidays stand as a sort of back burner issue when compared to other projects?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Mr. Sotto,

If I only had one question for you, it would be this.


What would you deem your great accomplishment of your career?

I hope it's still out there as I'd like to think I'm not done yet. There are projects unbuilt and in progress now that could end up being that. Projects to me are like children, they are different and you love them all for different reasons. So far, others says it's DLP Main Street, and in a way it represents my best shot at contributing to what I traditionally love about the Disney brand and that was my intent. To put something out there that kindles the real Disney essence in future generations. All the hidden detail I loved as a kid is embedded there for Europeans to discover and fall in love with the richer less explicit story, and they do. Not very creative, not even a "land" to my peers, but hopefully others think it is magical or at least well done. I love victorian stuff so there is a lot of sweat in that project from all involved and I'd like to think it's the richest Main Street.

To answer your question, I'd say I'm creatively proudest of "Pooh's Hunny Hunt" in TDL as it broke new ground in ride design (as it's first trackless dark ride) and at the same time it was financially successful for OLC by a huge margin. As for being a fun project, the "Encounter" Restaurant at LAX was the most personal. I think this project (I cannot discuss) that I'm working on right now is easily the finest work I've ever done although it's not the creative stretch I'm still looking for.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

My one question, what was your biggest failure?

Biggest? There are so many to choose from. They say "if you're not failing enough, you're not trying enough". Then I guess I try alot. I like taking reasonable risks so the projects i like to take on usually have something about them that is new or untried. But how do you measure failure? "Mission:Space" had an entirely new ride system to deliver the sustained G forces of liftoff, but it was too much for some people and that hurt attendance. Failure can be financial or creative (or both!). Main Street in DLP to me was a creative success trapped in a fiscal disaster. "Knott's Soap Box Racers" Ride to me was a creative embarrassment but it was hugely successful in ridership (120% of the gate) and actually drove attendance that year.

"Six Flags Power Plant" in Baltimore Maryland was a huge flop on pretty much both levels. (thread on it here, there is a Ryman painting of it too! http://www.greatadventurehistory.com/Forums/index.php?showtopic=1395)

I was hired by Gary Goddard Productions from Knott's to design a walk thru Attraction based on an existing premise (exploring the laboratory of victorian master inventor Phineas Flagg) and did so. The premise we worked from was flawed from the outset (school groups thought it was true!) and it was executed ambitiously from a meager budget so nothing worked reliably, so it failed both commercially and creatively. Ouch. Looked great but "why for?". Good early career lesson.

The "Steampunk" design of the elements themselves was good but no one "got it" and it was a huge disaster. The good news was that Tony Baxter saw it's merits, liked my "Discovery Bay" style design, and I got hired at WED as a result, so in a personal way it served as a successful audition! That "flop" paid off in a Disney career! Thanks to Tony having the insight to separate a flawed idea from the hard work and design quality.