Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Eddie,
As we approach the holidays, I'm wondering something about imagineering. How big of an emphasis is placed on holiday "special stuff", as opposed to everyday planning? Is there a 12 month emphasis on making the holidays special, or do the holidays stand as a sort of back burner issue when compared to other projects?

They are becoming more important as the seasonal "overlays" (IASW,HM,SM ) to existing rides are very popular. Historically, the Entertainment crew and show quality down at the parks did those overlays, but I believe WDI has been more involved with SM as they were with CBJ in the past.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Biggest? There are so many to choose from. They say "if you're not failing enough, you're not trying enough". Then I guess I try alot. I like taking reasonable risks so the projects i like to take on usually have something about them that is new or untried. But how do you measure failure? "Mission:Space" had an entirely new ride system to deliver the sustained G forces of liftoff, but it was too much for some people and that hurt attendance. Failure can be financial or creative (or both!). Main Street in DLP to me was a creative success trapped in a fiscal disaster. "Knott's Soap Box Racers" Ride to me was a creative embarrassment but it was hugely successful in ridership (120% of the gate) and actually drove attendance that year.

"Six Flags Power Plant" in Baltimore Maryland was a huge flop on pretty much both levels. (thread on it here, there is a Ryman painting of it too! http://www.greatadventurehistory.com/Forums/index.php?showtopic=1395)

I was hired by Gary Goddard Productions from Knott's to design a walk thru Attraction based on an existing premise (exploring the laboratory of victorian master inventor Phineas Flagg) and did so. The premise we worked from was flawed from the outset (school groups thought it was true!) and it was executed ambitiously from a meager budget so nothing worked reliably, so it failed both commercially and creatively. Ouch. Looked great but "why for?". Good early career lesson.

The "Steampunk" design of the elements themselves was good but no one "got it" and it was a huge disaster. The good news was that Tony Baxter saw it's merits, liked my "Discovery Bay" style design, and I got hired at WED as a result, so in a personal way it served as a successful audition! That "flop" paid off in a Disney career! Thanks to Tony having the insight to separate a flawed idea from the hard work and design quality.

I have to object profoundly that you put M:S in the flop category. I have a feeling had it not had the unfortunate task of replacing Horizons than all the complaints would have been compliments. It is an amazing experience and far exceeded my expectations. Definitely in my top 3 or 4 attractions of all time.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I have to object profoundly that you put M:S in the flop category. I have a feeling had it not had the unfortunate task of replacing Horizons than all the complaints would have been compliments. It is an amazing experience and far exceeded my expectations. Definitely in my top 3 or 4 attractions of all time.

Well you are right, I don't actually consider it a "flop" either. I think it did 11 million guests it's first year alone. The sustained G force sensation of liftoff is pretty extraordinary, and true to real space travel. I do think the ride system, although innovative lends itself to a younger audience, and that limits it's appeal. When Michael Eisner sat in our cardboard capsule mockup that was deliberately close quarters, he said it felt really good and not for everyone. It was not like an airplane, but like real space travel and EPCOT wanted to be more challenging and real. But it should not deter you from pioneering new ride systems that help support the story. You have to keep trying to achieve those "how did they do that?" moments Disney is known for.
 

KevinYee

Well-Known Member
Do you feel that the Orange peel design of the DCA swing ride was a stronger, more California-centric (and better) theme than the new one about Silly Symphonies?
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Do you feel that the Orange peel design of the DCA swing ride was a stronger, more California-centric (and better) theme than the new one about Silly Symphonies?

I know you were asking Eddie this question, but I really like the look of Silly Symphony Swings vs. the Orange Stinger. I think they did a great job re-doing Paradise Pier from California Screamin' to the new Boardwalk Pasta. The area between Boardwalk Pasta and Mermaid needs to be addressed (Basically Goofy's Sky School, Golden Zephyr and the Jumping Jellyfish).
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Do you feel that the Orange peel design of the DCA swing ride was a stronger, more California-centric (and better) theme than the new one about Silly Symphonies?

I thought the Orange as a concept was way more unique, but too cheaply executed to make it Disney quality. I think you must know that i proposed that thing, but being made of pictorial (california icons) stained glass and internally lit so it sent shafts of light and color everywhere. It was supposed to be the park's icon with a ride inside of it over water. So I'm biased as to what it could have been. The Silly Swings is a good attraction (my kids love it) and the open feel is really magical, it works. The carousel rounding boards look of it is too close to the "off the shelf" catalog version for my taste. Ideally, they could have changed the design and made it a tad more unique, as the ride itself is really wonderful. It's called the "wave swinger" in most amusement parks and that's all that Paradise Pier is promising to recall, so it's fine.

Looks the same save for the Disney art.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhqMce2yxzQ
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Occupy Main Street?

After reading the Drudge Report, I wonder if it's only a matter of time till Disney fans will unite at WDW to voice their maintenance concerns on the Yeti and BTM with an "Occupy Main Street" protest march? Will WDW get a "Fandom Fall"? Why do the 1% of guests who made reservations last year on some cheap discount program pack all the restaurants, while the 99% who paid full admission can't eat there?

It would be pretty funny if a mob of fans showed up with paint brushes, black tarps, light bulbs and hand tools to converge on attractions and fix up the park. :ROFLOL:
 

steve2wdw

WDW Fan Since 1973
It would be pretty funny if a mob of fans showed up with paint brushes, black tarps, light bulbs and hand tools to converge on attractions and fix up the park. :ROFLOL:

I've got my toolbelt on already....just say the word! Maybe Tim the Toolman Taylor can lead us!
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I've got my toolbelt on already....just say the word! Maybe Tim the Toolman Taylor can lead us!

All that would have to happen is for Kevin "Declining by Degrees" Yee to tweet a day and time for AP's flash mob to meet in Town Square and you'd be surprised how many would show up. Back in August of 1970 there was "Yippie Day", when Hippies took over Tom Sawyer's Island to protest the war (raised the Viet Cong Flag) or something and they had to bring police into the park to take them out of Main Street.

This Occupy Main Street thing would be funnier as it would likely have protesters dressed as broken Yetis, guys dressed as the missing boulder from BTM, a few people in a cardboard Horizons pavilion shaped tent, and people with "Where's my Progress City?" protest signs. A Duffy effigy burning would certainly get some media attention. I could see getting everyone to dress really clean cut (plaid shirts and white tennis shoes) with the professionally made picket signs like in those 70's Kurt Russell Disney films. Of course, they will be chanting for the Disney millionaire executives to forgo those huge bonuses and Escalades to direct the funds for the park's "fair share" of maintenance! HA! Hank Williams Jr. might even show up! Or maybe take the whole insanity out in the parking lot and call it "Burning Mouse"? (actually, that's a huge idea..)

More on Yippie Day!

http://davelandweb.com/yippies/
 

thehowiet

Wilson King of Prussia
LOL! Thanks for the sharing the Yippie Day link, Eddie. I never heard about this. I can't imagine Disney found anything about this even remotely funny, which is totally understandable, but some of it is quite humorous.

I think the funniest part about the whole thing for me is that the only event listed in the passed out flyer that actually happened that day involved getting stoned and raising a flag. I guess life is all about priorities. :ROFLOL:

Also, I'm pretty sure I saw the guy on the left of the header pic at a few Phish shows in the late 90's wearing a Mickey Mouse t-shirt and selling veggie burritos.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
LOL! Thanks for the sharing the Yippie Day link, Eddie. I never heard about this. I can't imagine Disney found anything about this even remotely funny, which is totally understandable, but some of it is quite humorous.

I think the funniest part about the whole thing for me is that the only event listed in the passed out flyer that actually happened that day involved getting stoned and raising a flag. I guess life is all about priorities. :ROFLOL:

Also, I'm pretty sure I saw the guy on the left of the header pic at a few Phish shows in the late 90's wearing a Mickey Mouse t-shirt and selling veggie burritos.

They all look pretty tame too. No tattoos, piercings, etc. It was not funny at the time. Disneyland and fans like me were horrified. Imagine if there was twitter back then. They would have had a ton of people show up.

I recall when Knott's had a "new wave" concert in the 80's, they sold out and a guest hooked his 4WD truck to the park fence and pulled it down! All these kids ran inside and overcrowded the park. The Police came as well. Another mess.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I thought the Orange as a concept was way more unique, but too cheaply executed to make it Disney quality. I think you must know that i proposed that thing, but being made of pictorial (california icons) stained glass and internally lit so it sent shafts of light and color everywhere. It was supposed to be the park's icon with a ride inside of it over water. So I'm biased as to what it could have been. The Silly Swings is a good attraction (my kids love it) and the open feel is really magical, it works. The carousel rounding boards look of it is too close to the "off the shelf" catalog version for my taste. Ideally, they could have changed the design and made it a tad more unique, as the ride itself is really wonderful. It's called the "wave swinger" in most amusement parks and that's all that Paradise Pier is promising to recall, so it's fine.

Looks the same save for the Disney art.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhqMce2yxzQ
But in today's environment an attraction becomes "Disney" not by its attention to quality storytelling, but its association with the previously (mostly in film) established. I am not sure if a unique, well done icon would have been spared a similar fate. It would have lacked the self-reference to Disney that is becoming a defining feature of the Disney parks.

After reading the Drudge Report, I wonder if it's only a matter of time till Disney fans will unite at WDW to voice their maintenance concerns on the Yeti and BTM with an "Occupy Main Street" protest march? Will WDW get a "Fandom Fall"? Why do the 1% of guests who made reservations last year on some cheap discount program pack all the restaurants, while the 99% who paid full admission can't eat there?

It would be pretty funny if a mob of fans showed up with paint brushes, black tarps, light bulbs and hand tools to converge on attractions and fix up the park. :ROFLOL:
It already exists.
http://www.facebook.com/OccupyDisneyWorld
 

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