Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[njDizFan]

Great job again Mr. Savage.

Your 10 minute sketch is light years ahead of the actual image. I don't know how or why this map was approved but it either shows a lack of caring or perhaps TDO thinks they have to "dumb it down" to appeal to a larger audience.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

good point Eddie, Hugo really is a tribute for movie lovers and dreamers.

On a side note i happen to be reading "The Last Greatest Magician in The World" by Jim Steinmeyer.

its about HowardThurston versus Houdini and the battle of the american wizards..

i mention this because of the details of the tricks like the floating lady are explained and these early pioneers were much like Meiles was..

I used to work with Jim at WDI and admire him VERY much. He used to create tricks for Orson Welles. Even had lunch with him! I was sooo jealous to hear that. We watched a Melies documentary about a year ago and it was interesting that he was an Imagineer in that he wanted to import the movie techniques into the real world tricks he was doing, and ended up making films instead.That Thurston book is sitting on my shelf and is gathering pixie dust. Now that you mention that there are DETAILS to be found, I guess I need to read it! Thanks for bringing it up. How magic and the movies overlapped is interesting when you compare how the HM used stage magic in it's arsenal of tricks.

 

[RandySavage]

Couldn't resist going a little further with the Emporium Store Guide:

Eddie, on Paris' Main Street you worked with a number of artists who are very qualified to do this kind of Victorian illustration (the spectacular "Future City" posters come to mind). You yourself probably did a lot of this kind of illustration & artwork.

On the subject of art & WDI, I dig every kind, but I especially love the sweeping, detailed, breath-taking overview paintings by the likes of John , Tom Gilleon, Dan Goozee, Nina Rae Vaughn, Bryan Jowers, Tim Delaney and others. Fine art, in my book. Sadly, all of the aforementioned "classical" artists of your generation are no longer with WDI and one notices that a lot of the artwork done in-house (and released to the public) these days has a bit of a toony, storyboard feel to it, rather than the fine art style. Which were your favorite artists of the 2nd (living) generation imagineers? Are they still active in the business, if not with WDI?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Couldn't resist going a little further with the Emporium Store Guide:

Eddie, on Paris' Main Street you worked with a number of artists who are very qualified to do this kind of Victorian illustration (the spectacular "Future City" posters come to mind). You yourself probably did a lot of this kind of illustration & artwork.

On the subject of art & WDI, I dig every kind, but I especially love the sweeping, detailed, breath-taking overview paintings by the likes of John , Tom Gilleon, Dan Goozee, Nina Rae Vaughn, Bryan Jowers, Tim Delaney and others. Fine art, in my book. Sadly, all of the aforementioned "classical" artists of your generation are no longer with WDI and one notices that a lot of the artwork done in-house (and released to the public) these days has a bit of a toony, storyboard feel to it, rather than the fine art style. Which were your favorite artists of the 2nd (living) generation imagineers? Are they still active in the business, if not with WDI?

I did lots of layouts and concept sketches for everything from signs to the attraction posters. I like those artists you mention of course, and Jim Michaelson, who did many of the best graphics and illustrations for DLP Main Street, including the "future city" posters, and the Emporium mural that's posted as a reference, still works in Colorado.
David Negron is a great artist and consulting Imagineer too. Aside form his movie work, (http://www.davidjnegron.com/) he did the murals for the Plaza Inn at DLP and still does great work for me now. Chris Runco is also a favorite artist and designer. Very versatile. Christopher Smith has done some great work as well.

Tom Gilleon is very good and so is Eddie Martinez, both fine artists who have done work for WDI.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Randy just keeps knocking out those sketches! Awesome.

 

[thehowiet]

Eddie, what are your thoughts on the current rumors about the Harry Potter expansion at Universal?

I'm not sure if you have been following, but just in case you have not, I'll give you a brief summary of the rumors so far.

The rumor is that Harry Potter, which is currently in Islands of Adventure, will have it's expansion built in the Universal Studios park next door, not in IOA. One of the rumors is to connect the lands in these two parks by building the Hogwart's Express train that will transport guests between the two distinct Potter areas in both parks. The rumored piece of land for the expansion in US is quite a distance away from the current Potter land in IOA.

I think it is an interesting idea and if it is properly executed it could make for a pretty neat experience. For Universal it seems like it could be a win/win as it requires guests to go into both parks if they want to get the full Potter experience. However, I wonder if this idea of putting it into two parks is overkill and if this will rub guests the wrong way since they would have to pay for more than a single day/single park admission to experience all of this.

Assuming that you would have to show your park hopper ticket before getting on the train to move on to the next park, I could see this being a nightmare for cast members as they try to explain why someone cannot board the train if they only have a single day/single park ticket.

Thoughts?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, what are your thoughts on the current rumors about the Harry Potter expansion at Universal?

I'm not sure if you have been following, but just in case you have not, I'll give you a brief summary of the rumors so far.

The rumor is that Harry Potter, which is currently in Islands of Adventure, will have it's expansion built in the Universal Studios park next door, not in IOA. One of the rumors is to connect the lands in these two parks by building the Hogwart's Express train that will transport guests between the two distinct Potter areas in both parks. The rumored piece of land for the expansion in US is quite a distance away from the current Potter land in IOA.

I think it is an interesting idea and if it is properly executed it could make for a pretty neat experience. For Universal it seems like it could be a win/win as it requires guests to go into both parks if they want to get the full Potter experience. However, I wonder if this idea of putting it into two parks is overkill and if this will rub guests the wrong way since they would have to pay for more than a single day/single park admission to experience all of this.

Assuming that you would have to show your park hopper ticket before getting on the train to move on to the next park, I could see this being a nightmare for cast members as they try to explain why someone cannot board the train if they only have a single day/single park ticket.

Thoughts?

If it is as you explain, I think it's a good idea. Taking a "train" into more of a world is unique in of itself. I wanted the JC to do that for Indiana Jones. I think that distance brings something to the party. Like TV channels, guests don't know/care what park they are in and just want to have fun on the advertised ride, so I think the guest will not care. what if Disney had themed story driven rides to take you from one park to another, how cool would THAT be? (It used to be the monorail). If the transitions between parks were rides that would be awesome. A train that took you to AK would be great. You "fade in" to animals out the window, etc. WDw was conceived that way with fun ways to get anywhere, long before the bus took over.

The ticketing at UNI is another issue they will have to handle. Uni WWHP has become the "must see" off property attraction and that costs Disney a day of revenue when they leave the resort to experience it. Good for them.

 

[MKCP 1985]

Without doubt, the missing detail that I would most bring back would be the Main Street Magic Shop.

Disneyland still has theirs and it's actually better than it was. As a kid that was one of my favorite places in all the park. WDW needs it.

I think it is really cool that Steve Martin once worked as a cast member at the Disneyland Magic Shop and he writes about that experience in his biography. When I was a little kid, there was something special to me about going into the Magic Kingdom magic shop at Walt Disney World and picking out something to take home. Even into college, a mask purchased there was so specialized that I had people asking to borrow it.

The Missing Detail I would like to bring back would be twinkling lights at dark in the hub around Cinderella's Castle. There was something about their presence that signaled good things about to happen - whether that meant the Main Street Electrical Parade, Fantasy in the Sky Fireworks, or even a late night trek to ride as many rides in the park before closing. If those lights end up in the Fantasyland Expansion, that will be a wonderful thing.

 

[thehowiet]

If it is as you explain, I think it's a good idea. Taking a "train" into more of a world is unique in of itself. I wanted the JC to do that for Indiana Jones. I think that distance brings something to the party. Like TV channels, guests don't know/care what park they are in and just want to have fun on the advertised ride, so I think the guest will not care. what if Disney had themed story driven rides to take you from one park to another, how cool would THAT be? (It used to be the monorail). If the transitions between parks were rides that would be awesome. A train that took you to AK would be great. You "fade in" to animals out the window, etc. WDw was conceived that way with fun ways to get anywhere, long before the bus took over.

The ticketing at UNI is another issue they will have to handle. Uni WWHP has become the "must see" off property attraction and that costs Disney a day of revenue when they leave the resort to experience it. Good for them.

All great points, especially your point about the monorail and an AK train as being a part of the story. I really like the idea of blurring the lines from park to park and making it a seamless and transparent resort experience for the guest, by not only creating transitions from land to land within one park but creating transitions from park to park.

Your ideas about transportation being part of the story are really intriguing to me as I have always been of the belief that if you make it a fun and unique experience to get from park to park that maybe it would make it harder for guests to skip a park like AK or HS, especially if you make it easy. Maybe even getting rid of the park hopper add on and making that included with every ticket would help that as well, but that's another debate for another time.

When I go to WDW I usually stay at the Poly or Contemporary so I end up spending most of my time in the MK and EPCOT, mainly because of the monorail. For me the monorail truly is a big part part of the WDW experience. It would definitely be cool to not even have to walk out of the front gate of one park to get to another.

I think the biggest roadblock with an idea like this is convincing the bean counters that try to attach a dollar amount to every single park/resort experience. Sometimes it's difficult to quantify every piece of the puzzle financially when it's all the pieces of the puzzle working together that make up the guest experience.

The more and more I think about the JC to Indiana Jones idea, the more I start to see just how brilliant of an idea it really is. It will be interesting to see how this Potter expansion plays out, if indeed the rumors are true. This whole blurring the lines between theme parks could be a pretty big deal in my opinion.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Insane time

It is. In the case of Universal, the parks being so close to one another makes it doable. the distances of the Disney parks makes any kind of themed connection really expensive.

This sounds insane, but i'd love to see windowless busses that pull into a themed terminal (time portal) and you are not aware that you are entering a bus at all. You go through a time portal into a "pod". Kind of Dr. Who like. The ride on the bus is unique with the seats facing inward (less of them too) and screens as the windows on the ceiling or something, setting up a show for where you land in the next park, but like the monorail at DL, you arrive inside of a land of the park. they could have their own roads as well so the timing is predictable and faster than driving. Maybe it's the same terminal but in a different time period? Time "pods" take you anywhere you want.

 

[thehowiet]

It is. In the case of Universal, the parks being so close to one another makes it doable. the distances of the Disney parks makes any kind of themed connection really expensive.

This sounds insane, but i'd love to see windowless busses that pull into a themed terminal (time portal) and you are not aware that you are entering a bus at all. You go through a time portal into a "pod". Kind of Dr. Who like. The ride on the bus is unique with the seats facing inward (less of them too) and screens as the windows on the ceiling or something, setting up a show for where you land in the next park, but like the monorail at DL, you arrive inside of a land of the park. they could have their own roads as well so the timing is predictable and faster than driving. Maybe it's the same terminal but in a different time period? Time "pods" take you anywhere you want.

Insane? Nah, that's not insane....it's bananas! And I mean that as a good thing. Something like that would be wild. WDW has already shown that they prefer to use busses as their transport, why not do something like that? If you used a windowless bus the "transport vehicle" opportunities would be endless as long as you hide that it's actually a bus and had a really themed station. It could be a time pod or another type of transport depending on the theme of the land and/or park. Very cool.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Insane? Nah, that's not insane....it's bananas! And I mean that as a good thing. Something like that would be wild. WDW has already shown that they prefer to use busses as their transport, why not do something like that? If you used a windowless bus the "transport vehicle" opportunities would be endless as long as you hide that it's actually a bus and had a really themed station. It could be a time pod or another type of transport depending on the theme of the land and/or park. Very cool.

If you never saw the driver and could not see the busses coming and going from the portal, then who's to say what you're riding in? It's a black box on wheels. The door closes in one world and opens in another. Immersion and illusion. Call Steinmeyer! A "horizontal elevator" of sorts. I guess I just want Disney to blow my mind like it used to.

I think you would still have ordinary busses to shuttle guests at the end of the day,etc, because there is a time for show and a time for function. But between parks departing from within the lands could be a fun experience to do crossovers of theme. Of course, it would be a BIG issue if your kids got on the bus and left the park and you could not find them.

I would love for them to give me a bus to work with for a few months and produce a demo of "the black box on wheels".

 

[ScoutN]

Call me old fashioned at my youthful age, Mr. Sotto, but I still stand by the wises of a rail system from park to park. It would be wonderful to have multiple locomotives from several time periods represented in the system. Of course open coaches would be an issue for that long of a journey and cost increases with enclosed. Just imagine driving through the property and seeing a steam locomotive powering along and steam bellowing from the stack. Impractical, I know, but an amazing day dream subject.

Of course I am biased as I have been an avid LGB collector since I received my first set at five years of age. The collections since has grown to over to nearly a quarter mile in track, twenty engines, and well over one hundred various coaches.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I think it is really cool that Steve Martin once worked as a cast member at the Disneyland Magic Shop and he writes about that experience in his biography. When I was a little kid, there was something special to me about going into the Magic Kingdom magic shop at Walt Disney World and picking out something to take home. Even into college, a mask purchased there was so specialized that I had people asking to borrow it.

The Missing Detail I would like to bring back would be twinkling lights at dark in the hub around Cinderella's Castle. There was something about their presence that signaled good things about to happen - whether that meant the Main Street Electrical Parade, Fantasy in the Sky Fireworks, or even a late night trek to ride as many rides in the park before closing. If those lights end up in the Fantasyland Expansion, that will be a wonderful thing.

When I was very young the magic shop was super special as you could watch the magician do tricks. My big souvenir one year was a fake bloody thumb. I'd buy the Swiss warbler bird calls and make noise in the rides. there is something about that experience that is so great. I had no idea the twinkle lights are gone! How could you take out twinkle lights? It's theme park water boarding!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Call me old fashioned at my youthful age, Mr. Sotto, but I still stand by the wises of a rail system from park to park. It would be wonderful to have multiple locomotives from several time periods represented in the system. Of course open coaches would be an issue for that long of a journey and cost increases with enclosed. Just imagine driving through the property and seeing a steam locomotive powering along and steam bellowing from the stack. Impractical, I know, but an amazing day dream subject.

Of course I am biased as I have been an avid LGB collector since I received my first set at five years of age. The collections since has grown to over to nearly a quarter mile in track, twenty engines, and well over one hundred various coaches.

Ok you're "old fashioned", but so am I. I LOVE Steam Trains and would love to ride live steam all over the property. My favorite experience at WDI was being involved in the design of the DLP Steam Trains. Childhood dream come true was running the George Washington Loco around the park. BTW impractical things are what you pay admission to see! I say Steam Trains are awesome. Love the whistles!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hmmm

A WDI friend of mine told me to drop everything and read this book.
"Walt and Progress City". I guess I need to get it. The review was "Brilliant".

 

[ChrisFL]

A WDI friend of mine told me to drop everything and read this book.
"Walt and Progress City". I guess I need to get it. The review was "Brilliant".

Yes, I saw the preview on miceage, I too have to purchase it.

Regarding the travel experiences, I think the Bus system is, while useful at Disney, really REALLY should get a more entertaining upgrade. They're nothing special to look at or ride in.

The Tokyo Disney resort buses have a much more Disney appeal to them:

I know that Disney has over 200 buses and the Tokyo Buses like above have lower capacity than the current ones, but its something more than a 90's era logo plastered on the side.

 

[ob1thx1138]

Ok you're "old fashioned", but so am I. I LOVE Steam Trains and would love to ride live steam all over the property. My favorite experience at WDI was being involved in the design of the DLP Steam Trains. Childhood dream come true was running the George Washington Loco around the park. BTW impractical things are what you pay admission to see! I say Steam Trains are awesome. Love the whistles!

One of my favorite attractions at Dollywood is the train ride. They have two wonderful Coal fired steam engines that were used in an Alaska Gold Mine. I just wish they would use the train as an actual form of transportation to another part of the park instead of just a “There and back again” round trip. The scenery is really nice, but the ride is a bit pointless for anyone that doesn’t enjoy trains.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

One of my favorite attractions at Dollywood is the train ride. They have two wonderful Coal fired steam engines that were used in an Alaska Gold Mine. I just wish they would use the train as an actual form of transportation to another part of the park instead of just a “There and back again” round trip. The scenery is really nice, but the ride is a bit pointless for anyone that doesn’t enjoy trains.

Agree. Give them a purpose. Steam Trains are living beings with their life force of hissing and puffing like we do, and like people we need a reason to be.

 

[thehowiet]

If you never saw the driver and could not see the busses coming and going from the portal, then who's to say what you're riding in? It's a black box on wheels. The door closes in one world and opens in another. Immersion and illusion. Call Steinmeyer! A "horizontal elevator" of sorts. I guess I just want Disney to blow my mind like it used to.

I think you would still have ordinary busses to shuttle guests at the end of the day,etc, because there is a time for show and a time for function. But between parks departing from within the lands could be a fun experience to do crossovers of theme. Of course, it would be a BIG issue if your kids got on the bus and left the park and you could not find them.

I would love for them to give me a bus to work with for a few months and produce a demo of "the black box on wheels".

Man, how cool would that be? I agree that we do pay to see the impractical. If it was practical it would just be everyday life. I couldn't agree more with your bolded statement. I know that companies do need to be fiscally responsible, but that shouldn't hold them back from hitting a home run every so many years. I also agree that you would still need the ordinary busses, especially for the heavy loads in the morning and evening, but the park to park transport idea really is something that I think would work.

Eddie, if I win the Powerball this weekend (crosses fingers), you'll get your bus for the demo.

Call me old fashioned at my youthful age, Mr. Sotto, but I still stand by the wises of a rail system from park to park. It would be wonderful to have multiple locomotives from several time periods represented in the system. Of course open coaches would be an issue for that long of a journey and cost increases with enclosed. Just imagine driving through the property and seeing a steam locomotive powering along and steam bellowing from the stack. Impractical, I know, but an amazing day dream subject.

Of course I am biased as I have been an avid LGB collector since I received my first set at five years of age. The collections since has grown to over to nearly a quarter mile in track, twenty engines, and well over one hundred various coaches.

I've also always been enamored with steam trains and growing up I would make frequent trips to the Strasburg Railroad with my dad (Strasburg is currently refurbishing the Lilly Belle). Taking a steam train all over property would be awesome. That's something that would really make WDW a world of its own. I always believed that WDW should be different from the real world in every way possible, and this is something that would do that. Imagine pulling onto the property in your car and seeing steam trains everywhere? That's definitely something that would transport me to a different time or place, that's for sure.