Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[DisneyMusician2]

They have been conceived, but you really can't get them made due to low capacity. We created quite a few of them for a "Disney Quest" type attraction where the demand is less, but the cost against the return makes it hard to get funded. The Carousel is a intended as single rider ride (yes there are some benches and some parents hold their kids on their laps) as you have your own horse. "Silly Symphony Swings" has many single seats as well. Both of those are shared group experiences though. The best single rider attractions are watersides and those Ziplines and Alpine Coasters!

Actually, I often thing about larger capacity rides where a family of five might be able to ride together on a dark ride experience. Kind of like those large-tube family flume rides at many water parks. Most amusement park rides are very limited to that 2-3 people per vehicle or a full load thrill ride like ToT or Dinosaur.

 

[Fe Maiden]

My favorite historic and yet thematic place in all of Germany is Rothenberg on the Tauber River.

http://www.germanplaces.com/germany/rothenburg-ob-der-tauber.html

I could not believe the Pinocchio Village really existed! All of the designers visited this place is part of our research for Disneyland Paris. We learned that we had to do the architecture right, but at the same time stretched things into the world of fantasy so they would not be directly compared. All of the colors and scale were so incredibly charming without being sugary. The most memorable part of my visit was the tour of the Museum of torture. That was the last place that I would expect to find an iron maiden. Nevertheless, it was a fantastic trip and was extremely well-maintained.

During senior year in high school my German class toured Germany, Austria, and Switzerland and out of all the places we went, Rothenburg was my favorite.

Recently my son had to create a German menu for school, as a result we went through the photo album from my trip and I still had the English and German versions of a brochure from the torture museum including some great pics of the iron maiden.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Actually, I often thing about larger capacity rides where a family of five might be able to ride together on a dark ride experience. Kind of like those large-tube family flume rides at many water parks. Most amusement park rides are very limited to that 2-3 people per vehicle or a full load thrill ride like ToT or Dinosaur.

I think Alice and Snow White seat 5.

 

[ChrisFL]

Eddie, I know you, like I, am a fan of the city project that Walt had and also studying Apple's new HQ.

I just discovered a film on Netflix about "Jacque Franco". I had never heard of him before, but he's apparently been a futurist his entire life (he's 95 years old!)

He has some similar designs to Walt's EPCOT plan, but not quite the same.

Reading some things, apparently he's also been part of some controversy for his socioeconomic views, but besides that, he's created tons of things.

I was wondering if he had input to some of the Horizons models, but so far I haven't found any direct links between his works and the Disney company.

The film is called "Future by Design", and here's a link to some of his works:

http://www.dedroidify.com/fresco.htm

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, I know you, like I, am a fan of the city project that Walt had and also studying Apple's new HQ.

I just discovered a film on Netflix about "Jacque Franco". I had never heard of him before, but he's apparently been a futurist his entire life (he's 95 years old!)

He has some similar designs to Walt's EPCOT plan, but not quite the same.

Reading some things, apparently he's also been part of some controversy for his socioeconomic views, but besides that, he's created tons of things.

I was wondering if he had input to some of the Horizons models, but so far I haven't found any direct links between his works and the Disney company.

The film is called "Future by Design", and here's a link to some of his works:

http://www.dedroidify.com/fresco.htm

Very interesting post and how "unsane!". Don't know if he had anything to do with Horizons. Kind of doubt it. I like that term. I think of myself as "Onsane".

 

[midwest_mice]

Eddie
What is your take on Disney's Hollywood Studios as far as expansion room? Also, With the amount of space that Lights, Motor, Action takes, do you see them eventually creating that area into a Toy Story Land, similar to Hong Kong Disneyland? It seems like LMA takes quite a bit of space, plus their practice area.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Evolution

What a transformation the SBC has made over the years...the early one is posted on matterhorn1959. thoughts?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Thoughts?

My main thought is the difference in the people. My, Disney guests looked good in the 1950's! I think modern Disney would pay CM's to walk around dressed like that!

The Castle: the landscaping had yet to grow in, but other than that, by a small margin, I prefer the 1959 look. Modern Disney too often chooses a cartoon style. I think that the more (hyper)real the theme, the more magical.
In fact, to me, this has always been one of the secrets behind the elusive Disney Difference. A cartoony, sugary, fairy-tale look looks less magical, less fairy-tale like than a more realistic approach. Which ties this in with a previous comment:

We learned that we had to do the architecture right, but at the same time stretched things into the world of fantasy so they would not be directly compared. All of the colors and scale were so incredibly charming without being sugary.

To me, DLP' Fantasyland has moved too far in the direction of stretched lines, sugary elements, pastel and pinky colours. It looks like Toontown. No people could conceivably live there. Whereas in New Orleans Square, Liberty Square, World Showcase, they (somewhat) can. Hence the latter work on a far deeper emotional level.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The Castle: the landscaping had yet to grow in, but other than that, by a small margin, I prefer the 1959 look. Modern Disney too often chooses a cartoon style. I think that the more (hyper)real the theme, the more magical.
In fact, to me, this has always been one of the secrets behind the elusive Disney Difference. A cartoony, sugary, fairy-tale look looks less magical, less fairy-tale like than a more realistic approach. Which ties this in with a previous comment:

To me, DLP' Fantasyland has moved too far in the direction of stretched lines, sugary elements, pastel and pinky colours. It looks like Toontown. No people could conceivably live there. Whereas in New Orleans Square, Liberty Square, World Showcase, they (somewhat) can. Hence the latter work on a far deeper emotional level.

I posted those images because the castle has emotionally shifted. I'm not saying one is good or bad, but when something that iconic shifts that much in attitude it is worth discussing. Symbols make a statement and steer your expectations. To "suspend disbelief" into fantasy, there has to be a certain logic or reality that you stretch from and conform to. for Peter Pan to "fly" the rest of London is as you have come to know it and conforms to the rules of gravity. That is why Peter flying around Big Ben is awe inspiring, because you know it as a real element that he is defying when he lands on it's hands. So when you evolve something like the castle, is it just optimistic decoration or does it mean more? Does realism matter? Does the added filagree betray the false perspective the castle depends on or give it some needed punch?

It's fun to debate the details, because you can also argue that the Castle looked pale and dead, and today's audiences have seen the Bavarian Castle it's stolen from and this one needs the "Disney" look to maintain the goal of it being rooted in fantasy, what you say?.

 

[Bolna]

Bolna? Can you help us with the providence of Rothenburg? Is it historically recreated or are parts of it (like the wall) original? I think it escaped WW2 bombings.

I think most of Rothenburg ob der Tauber is still original. It was only destroyed very little in WWII. It is so special because it used to be a military town in medieval times and then after the Thirty Years' War (which ended in 1648) it was no longer of any importance and rather became a very poor town. Therefore nobody could afford new buildings - which 300 years later in the 19th century was considered a blessing and the town was rediscovered as a tourist destination.

A similar fate happened to my hometown Nuremberg which was considered Germany's "jewel case" until the war. There is still lot of prettiness around and when the city was rebuilt, even normal houses had to keep the old proportions (gables, windows etc.), so it still has the little alleyways and sometimes appears way more medieval than it is in truth.

It's fun to debate the details, because you can also argue that the Castle looked pale and dead, and today's audiences have seen the Bavarian Castle it's stolen from and this one needs the "Disney" look to maintain the goal of it being rooted in fantasy, what you say?.

I meant to comment on something similar with regard to what you said about DLP's Fantasyland.

My first visit to a Disney park was to DL in 92. And the part which did impress me the least was Fantasyland. I thought it looked like a cheap copy of "home" - here in Bavaria there are a lot of towns which have the look of Rothenburg, even if it isn't so well preserved. That's what I grew up with, part of my everyday life. There wasn't that much Fantasy around for me.

I then visited DLP in 95 and was just blown away with how wonderful Fantasyland was and just fell in love with it. It had that additional touch of quirkiness to make it look less real and more like a place that deserved to be called "Fantasyland". I remember even that my sister and I talked about just this quite often - even after our trip - because it stood out so much to us.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

My first visit to a Disney park was to DL in 92. And the part which did impress me the least was Fantasyland. I thought it looked like a cheap copy of "home" - here in Bavaria there are a lot of towns which have the look of Rothenburg, even if it isn't so well preserved. That's what I grew up with, part of my everyday life. There wasn't that much Fantasy around for me.

I then visited DLP in 95 and was just blown away with how wonderful Fantasyland was and just fell in love with it. It had that additional touch of quirkiness to make it look less real and more like a place that deserved to be called "Fantasyland". I remember even that my sister and I talked about just this quite often - even after our trip - because it stood out so much to us.

My good friend Tom Morris, the man responsible for the design of DLP Fantasyland was very serious about how Europeans would receive that area. He and I used to drive to remote parts of France on the weekends just to look at how the roof tiles were laid, how streets were done, or what the color palettes should be in your part of the world. I can't tell you how many hedge mazes or castles he visited. Everything was much more thought out than in DL as we had the time to do research. He'd photograph the canals of Brugge, then look at old book illustrations by Tenggren, so he could then create a fantasy version of them. I think the strength here is that Tom started from a sound reality and the right materials, then knew where to stretch things and didn't go so far that it lost credibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustaf_Tenggren

 

[WDWcouple]

Hey there Eddie.. Blm pointed this out in another thread and I'd love to get your thoughts on it.. A combination Hidden Mickey / Oswald made out of the track on EE in DAK. Do you think this was on purpose or a great coincidence?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hey there Eddie.. Blm pointed this out in another thread and I'd love to get your thoughts on it.. A combination Hidden Mickey / Oswald made out of the track on EE in DAK. Do you think this was on purpose or a great coincidence?

I would fire someone if their prime reason for a coaster track configuration costing a hundred million bucks was so it could look like Oswald from space. I'd guess it's a very fun accident.

 

[StageFrenzy]

I would fire someone if their prime reason for a coaster track configuration costing a hundred million bucks was so it could look like Oswald from space. I'd guess it's a very fun accident.

Speaking of things when viewed from space, do you happen to know the reason DLP is encircled by a road? Also is that supposed to be a hidden mickey in front of the Disneyland hotel in DLP?

 

[Daannzzz]

I'd fire someone for Everest even if it didn't look like a Hidden Mickey or Oswald.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I'd fire someone for Everest even if it didn't look like a Hidden Mickey or Oswald.

LOL. Ruthless!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Speaking of things when viewed from space, do you happen to know the reason DLP is encircled by a road? Also is that supposed to be a hidden mickey in front of the Disneyland hotel in DLP?

The ring road is part of the overall master plan of the site. the project was designed as a radial master plan. I think there is an intentional hidden mickey in front of the hotel.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Also is that supposed to be a hidden mickey in front of the Disneyland hotel in DLP?

Where are you seeing the Hidden Mickey? All I see is the floral Mickey, which is in plain sight as you walk towards the Disneyland Hotel.

 

[StageFrenzy]

Where are you seeing the Hidden Mickey? All I see is the floral Mickey, which is in plain sight as you walk towards the Disneyland Hotel.

Well there isn't much mickey there but the 3 flower beds kinda look like eyes and a nose.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Well there isn't much mickey there but the 3 flower beds kinda look like eyes and a nose.

You are right. It's a big kinda...or maybe just a hidden hickey.