Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[GrimGhost]

This lecture covers Dreamworks intel technology collaboration and the future as they see it. Very impressive. Worth the watch.

http://shocklee.com/2011/11/jeffrey...n-on-being-on-the-cutting-edge-of-technology/

Eddie- please forgive my delay in responding to this particular post.

In "Disney War", James Stewart suggested that Katzenberg considered all Walt's well documented notes on story and film development a 'monument to his huge ego'. I walked away from watching this lecture with the impression that he valued it much more after reflection. You thoughts?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie- please forgive my delay in responding to this particular post.

In "Disney War", James Stewart suggested that Katzenberg considered all Walt's well documented notes on story and film development a 'monument to his huge ego'. I walked away from watching this lecture with the impression that he valued it much more after reflection. You thoughts?

Hmm. He may have first resented how everything fell under the "Disney" name, as those stories were written and directed by others and film is a collaborative medium. As for Walt himself, JK seems to respect the investments and risks Walt took in "pushing the envelope" of film technology. Walt was driven that way himself and it was in his personal DNA to be curious and improve things. Now that JK runs a studio that is driven by technology, he likely sees the importance of being a leader in that area. They seem to be doing a good job of it too!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Steam Trains

I've also always been enamored with steam trains and growing up I would make frequent trips to the Strasburg Railroad with my dad (Strasburg is currently refurbishing the Lilly Belle). Taking a steam train all over property would be awesome. That's something that would really make WDW a world of its own. I always believed that WDW should be different from the real world in every way possible, and this is something that would do that. Imagine pulling onto the property in your car and seeing steam trains everywhere? That's definitely something that would transport me to a different time or place, that's for sure.

My family visited there and brought me home the DVD. Wow, what a great place. Always wanted to ride on the excursion car used in the movie "Hello Dolly!" that they have there. I grew up with Steam Trains first at Knott's and then of course at Disney, they are magical for sure. My current favorite Steam Railroad is the Sierra Railroad in Jamestown, Ca. http://www.railtown1897.org/railtown/doc.asp?id=304

 

[LuvtheGoof]

It is. In the case of Universal, the parks being so close to one another makes it doable. the distances of the Disney parks makes any kind of themed connection really expensive.

This sounds insane, but i'd love to see windowless busses that pull into a themed terminal (time portal) and you are not aware that you are entering a bus at all. You go through a time portal into a "pod". Kind of Dr. Who like. The ride on the bus is unique with the seats facing inward (less of them too) and screens as the windows on the ceiling or something, setting up a show for where you land in the next park, but like the monorail at DL, you arrive inside of a land of the park. they could have their own roads as well so the timing is predictable and faster than driving. Maybe it's the same terminal but in a different time period? Time "pods" take you anywhere you want.

While it might be expensive, I would be more than willing to pay higher park costs if Disney would do this! What an awesome thing if I could board a pod in the Studios, and end up inside MK, or AK! They certainly have plenty of room for extra roads as needed.

BTW, how much does a mile of monorail cost nowadays? I mean, the Studios aren't that far from EPCOT, so I wouldn't think that would be prohibitive. Just add an additional station at EPCOT for the ride. Heck, even make it a $1 charge per guest until it's paid for. I'd be more than willing to swipe my KTTW card to ride it.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

While it might be expensive, I would be more than willing to pay higher park costs if Disney would do this! What an awesome thing if I could board a pod in the Studios, and end up inside MK, or AK! They certainly have plenty of room for extra roads as needed.

BTW, how much does a mile of monorail cost nowadays? I mean, the Studios aren't that far from EPCOT, so I wouldn't think that would be prohibitive. Just add an additional station at EPCOT for the ride. Heck, even make it a $1 charge per guest until it's paid for. I'd be more than willing to swipe my KTTW card to ride it.

I don't know what monorails cost these days, but it was considered pretty steep back in my day, especially when compared to busses which have a much higher capacity. I agree that you could even do a premium seamless experience at WDW and charge more for that with the bus and so forth.

 

[Bolna]

First off, it is so great to have those of you living beyond the USA posting here on the thread! Wilcommen! (I think that's right?) We'd like to hear from more of you and more often. I liked this video because you could see other vehicles. I'm assuming you manually brake to keep your distance, but the ride is really great. I also assume that they have a conveyor or something to drag them back up to the top of the mountain. So fun and well engineered too.

Again thanks for posting, and showing us your coasters!

Thanks for the Wilkommen! :wave: It is nice when there is an opportunity to add something from my German perspective to the discussion.

I also found the discussion a few pages back about Neuschwanstein rather interesting - I think discussing authenticity you mentioned how this was a Bavarian king's folly.

This is really something a lot of people (even here in Germany) forget: that a lot of what we today consider iconic landmarks was built to appear historic at that time already. There are a number of castles which were built (or redesigned) to look more spectacular and "medieval" during German Romanticism in the 19th century. Even Cologne's cathedral - Germany's most know Gothic church - wasn't finished until the 19th century. And add to that the fact that most historic buildings in German cities today had to be rebuilt after 1945, the question of what is really authentic becomes even more difficult to answer.

 

[ScoutN]

My family visited there and brought me home the DVD. Wow, what a great place. Always wanted to ride on the excursion car used in the movie "Hello Dolly!" that they have there. I grew up with Steam Trains first at Knott's and then of course at Disney, they are magical for sure. My current favorite Steam Railroad is the Sierra Railroad in Jamestown, Ca. http://www.railtown1897.org/railtown/doc.asp?id=304

Strasburg is on my to do list, however, I have yet to visit the west coast. Railroad is certainly cheaper to build the a monorail. Have you ever looked into the steam engines at Busch Williamsburg? I have ridden beside fireman a few times on their's. I have also been privileged enough to be clocking in when they are doing high psi blow-offs. That is an amazing sight an sound, the entire surrounding area is filled with steam and the engine pulls right out of the cloud.

Trains started early for me. There used to be an establishment called Mike's Trainland just two miles from where I live. It was nothing but a huge collection of trains that belonged to a gentlemen named Junie Lancaster. He was the wealthiest person in Suffolk at the time but trains were his life. He wanted a toy train that kids could ride at the museum so he bought one in 1993 with it being opened in 1994. His collection is ranked in the top private collections of model trains. Every scale, one-of-a-kinds, historic, and so much more. When he passed the ENTIRE collection was donated to the Portsmouth Children's museum where not even 5% of the trains are on display.

 

[RandySavage]

the question of what is really authentic becomes even more difficult to answer.

When the derivative building or environment is executed at a level where it registers as authentic or transports the visitor in some imaginative way, the reproduction has achieved its own value, despite being a "fake." This is what I love most about top tier theme parks - environments done so well they sell you, and become artistic achievements in their own right.

But high quality derivatives/reproductions exist outside theme parks.

For example, I used to work next to this brooding Irish landscape:

It was built in the heart of Manhattan's Financial District in the 2000s (visible in the lower center of this pic):

What are some other well-executed "fakes" (we've mentioned Neuschwanstein, Williamsburg, the Cloisters and few others earlier)?

One other example could be the Collegiate Gothic style that was employed at a lot of the country's best Universities in the first half of the 20th century, designed to emulate England's much older Cambridge & Oxford:

 

[Bolna]

When the derivative building or environment is executed at a level where it registers as authentic or transports the visitor in some imaginative way, the reproduction has achieved its own value, despite being a "fake." This is what I love most about top tier theme parks - environments done so well they sell you, and become artistic achievements in their own right.

I agree, that's why I was so impressed with the World Showcase at Epcot. I felt it achieved exactly that to a great degree, even for me with the Germany pavilion which of course is an environment I am very familiar with.

What are some other well-executed "fakes" (we've mentioned Neuschwanstein, Williamsburg, the Cloisters and few others earlier)?

Thanks for posting that example, it was very interesting and surprising. One that came to mind for me is the Frauenkirche in Dresden, Germany which was totally destroyed in the war and has been rebuilt from 1992 to 2005:

http://www.frauenkirche-dresden.de/bauwerk+M5d637b1e38d.html

While it tries to show something that was there originally, it is a modern building with air conditioning etc.

 

[RandySavage]

^It's great to learn something new. I was unaware of the rebuilding of that Dresden landmark... and that they incorporated the last remaining wall segment of the original gives it added authenticity.

Interesting that they seemed to do some "theme-ing" with the randomly-placed dark colored blocks.
http://react2007.tu-dresden.de/images/Frauenkirche2.jpg

One would assume that the masonry was all similarly colored when the church was built centuries ago and darkened with the soot of the industrial revolution. Do you know the story behind that?

 

[Bolna]

One would assume that the masonry was all similarly colored when the church was built centuries ago and darkened with the soot of the industrial revolution. Do you know the story behind that?

Sorry, I can only guess - and my guess would be the same as yours. My guess would even be that they are so dark because Dresden was destroyed by fire bombs which caused the whole city to burn down. So I think those stones were black from the fire. The church is supposed to also function as a memorial for peace.

However, I have read that those old stones were heavily debated since they were not placed at their original place (I think mostly nobody knew their original location because the building was so heavily destroyed) but just distributed arbitrarily.

And I just remembered another fairly local example:

This are reconstructed lake dwellings from the stone and bronze age at Lake of Constance. http://www.worldheritage-lakedwellings.com/

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Most immersive place

My favorite historic and yet thematic place in all of Germany is Rothenberg on the Tauber River.

http://www.germanplaces.com/germany/rothenburg-ob-der-tauber.html

I could not believe the Pinocchio Village really existed! All of the designers visited this place is part of our research for Disneyland Paris. We learned that we had to do the architecture right, but at the same time stretched things into the world of fantasy so they would not be directly compared. All of the colors and scale were so incredibly charming without being sugary. The most memorable part of my visit was the tour of the Museum of torture. That was the last place that I would expect to find an iron maiden. Nevertheless, it was a fantastic trip and was extremely well-maintained.

 

[RandySavage]

Rothenburg must also have been the major influence for 1960s WED team designing MK's Fantasyland. Some of the facades are near replica.

But I believe Rothenburg's Old Town consists of the same buildings erected centuries ago, preserved rather than reproduced. Is that correct? Puy du Fou on the other hand attempts to re-create a medieval town (I believe) but was built around the time DLP was... Was that ever considered competition?

 

[HMF]

Just had a bizarre dream that I got hired by WDI.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Rothenburg must also have been the major influence for 1960s WED team designing MK's Fantasyland. Some of the facades are near replica.

But I believe Rothenburg's Old Town consists of the same buildings erected centuries ago, preserved rather than reproduced. Is that correct? Puy du Fou on the other hand attempts to re-create a medieval town (I believe) but was built around the time DLP was... Was that ever considered competition?

Bolna? Can you help us with the providence of Rothenburg? Is it historically recreated or are parts of it (like the wall) original? I think it escaped WW2 bombings.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Just had a bizarre dream that I got hired by WDI.

I dreamt that I was watching an L-1011 doing all of these aerobatics with another plane over my house, then it crash landed. I woke up disturbed.

 

[HMF]

I dreamt that I was watching an L-1011 doing all of these aerobatics with another plane over my house, then it crash landed. I woke up disturbed.

It sometimes amazes me what the subconscious mind can come up with.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It sometimes amazes me what the subconscious mind can come up with.

I had just come home from the Airport and fell asleep watching Laurel and Hardy.

 

[ChrisFL]

Eddie, I can't recall if I asked you this before or not, but were there any attractions that were designed as "solo" rides?

Considering Disney is a family destination, most of their attractions are designed for at least 2 people or more (and obviously capacity is also an issue), but I wondered if they ever planned solo rider experiences.

I have some ideas for a few, but the question always has stuck in my head. It could be the antithesis of everything Disney is trying to do.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, I can't recall if I asked you this before or not, but were there any attractions that were designed as "solo" rides?

Considering Disney is a family destination, most of their attractions are designed for at least 2 people or more (and obviously capacity is also an issue), but I wondered if they ever planned solo rider experiences.

I have some ideas for a few, but the question always has stuck in my head. It could be the antithesis of everything Disney is trying to do.

They have been conceived, but you really can't get them made due to low capacity. We created quite a few of them for a "Disney Quest" type attraction where the demand is less, but the cost against the return makes it hard to get funded. The Carousel is a intended as single rider ride (yes there are some benches and some parents hold their kids on their laps) as you have your own horse. "Silly Symphony Swings" has many single seats as well. Both of those are shared group experiences though. The best single rider attractions are watersides and those Ziplines and Alpine Coasters!