Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[jt04]

...

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Let's keep the tone of this discussion from going into the "red" please. Next topic.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I am not talking attractions, much less E-ticket attractions, but space such as restaurants which would address the capacity issue and are being added as part of the Fantasyland expansion. Throughout the years retail and dining spaces were closed to guests and remain either closed or under utilized even as the park now needs capacity. Instead of working to reutilize existing space, the decision was made to build new facilities out in Fantasyland, tied to some rather big and underrepresented intellectual property. A new big dining experience is not going to help crowding significantly if it becomes another place people flock towards. The park needs more laid back, less headline offerings that guests discover upon entering the park and provide relief from the burgeoning crowds.

Good thoughts. The richness has been diluted over the years and those smaller experiences are very crucial to overall satisfaction, especially when the E rides are packed. .

 

[trs518]

I've often heard James Cameron described as demanding, usually in a negative tone.

I believe that a demanding person could either be a positive or negative. If he understands the customer, like Walt and Steve Jobs, I believe that this will be a plus.

I'm very interested to see what comes out of this, especially if he gets a chance to collaborate with Joe Rhode. I've enjoyed the environment of Animal Kingdom and the videos and pictures of Aulani.

 

[WDW1974]

Is it wrong that I was eagerly anticipating your response to jt? Some quick points:

• The parking lot changes at TTC make sense - I can't stand that whenever a minor change is made, an irrelevant point is followed by fanboys regarding "why isn't this a new attraction"
• Short of multiple simultaneously additions across the boards to the other parks, the Magic Kingdom will not take a substantial attendance hit for the reasons you mentioned.
• DAK already passed DHS in attendance this year - I wouldn't be surprised to see an additional ride added to DHS prior to, or in the same time frame as Avatar.

I couldn't care less about the main parking lot. I think the last time I parked there, DVC didn't exist to put it in perspective. This has nothing at all to do with anything being done or not being done in the parks, which I believe is your point (and was one of mine too).

You're absolutely correct that MK won't take a hit, pretty much no matter what. People just go there for what they expect is the quintessential Disney park experience. If they are visiting WDW, very few are going to skip it. And very few are going to give it up in the future unless they are giving up WDW entirely. Most will sacrifice a day (or days) at any of the other three Mouse-run parks. Disney knows this too.

Don't know if Studios will get a new attraction in the next few years or not. There was some chatter earlier this year that Disney wanted to resurrect the Monsters Coaster planned for the empty soundstage. It is possible that will happen. Carsland for the Backlot Tour won't. Not only is TT already in FLA and the ride system is the same, but the project is now rumored to be well above the $600 million level (crazy IMHO). Disney now has billions in the development pipeline between Fantasyland, Avatarland, NEXT GEN enhancements and the TWO DVC resorts that will be announced officially within the next year. That tells me that any addition for TPFKaTD-MGMS would have to be relatively cheap. Doors coaster (sans Jim Morrison) would fit that bill.

As a DAK loving Spirit, though, I was very happy to see it pass Studios as the No. 3 park in FLA (although to be fair, I firmly believe having Fantasmic only 2-3 nights a week and closing the park at 7 p.m. often, even in summer) did play a larger factor in that versus people deciding they suddenly loved all of the amazing detailing or just hanging out and watching animals in a beautiful setting!

 

[RSoxNo1]

Don't know if Studios will get a new attraction in the next few years or not. There was some chatter earlier this year that Disney wanted to resurrect the Monsters Coaster planned for the empty soundstage. It is possible that will happen. Carsland for the Backlot Tour won't. Not only is TT already in FLA and the ride system is the same, but the project is now rumored to be well above the $600 million level (crazy IMHO). Disney now has billions in the development pipeline between Fantasyland, Avatarland, NEXT GEN enhancements and the TWO DVC resorts that will be announced officially within the next year. That tells me that any addition for TPFKaTD-MGMS would have to be relatively cheap. Doors coaster (sans Jim Morrison) would fit that bill.

As a DAK loving Spirit, though, I was very happy to see it pass Studios as the No. 3 park in FLA (although to be fair, I firmly believe having Fantasmic only 2-3 nights a week and closing the park at 7 p.m. often, even in summer) did play a larger factor in that versus people deciding they suddenly loved all of the amazing detailing or just hanging out and watching animals in a beautiful setting!

I won't profess to know what's coming next other than what's been announced. I think the surprise regarding Avatar was that given that kind of capital investment, the fanboy assumption was that it would have been Carsland coming to DHS and not something entirely different going to DAK.

I think you're absolutely right regarding the Fantasmic schedule hurting DHS (Or as you call it, some Prince type symbol). I expect that provided things stay the same in both DHS and DAK from now until Avatar's opening that DHS will move back ahead of DAK in attendance during that span. Nightly Fantasmic showings, the need to get to the park first because of Toy Story, and the new Star Tours should remain "fresh enough" until Pandora.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Kevin's Avatar article.

Here's our good friend and frequent poster, Kevin Yee's latest discussion piece on Avatar. He mentions the PG13 rating, which I forgot about among other things. I think POTC was PG13. There are also speculations of location plots which you may also be interested in. Nice work Kevin. I do think Harry Potter appeals to adults and kids.

http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky100411a.htm

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I've often heard James Cameron described as demanding, usually in a negative tone.

I believe that a demanding person could either be a positive or negative. If he understands the customer, like Walt and Steve Jobs, I believe that this will be a plus.

I'm very interested to see what comes out of this, especially if he gets a chance to collaborate with Joe Rhode. I've enjoyed the environment of Animal Kingdom and the videos and pictures of Aulani.

James Cameron has been involved with the process of turning his films into attractions and they turned out to be good. To me, his involvement will mean that they will get the money to do some breakthrough type R&D, and give us something fresh, not derivative. He is at heart, an innovator. Terminator3D in it's day was a fantastic show with "how did they do that?" moments, thanks to the collaboration of Landmark Entertainment and Cameron. I would not expect any less. Demanding is good.

He probably has final approval and he spends LOTS of money. I'm hoping he pushes the envelope way out. All of these shows need a big gun creative exec that can push the studio to spend. Do you think Carsland or Nemo Subs would have been that pricey and rich without John Lassiter involved? Lucas no doubt pushed to get the 3D into Star Wars with the multiple endings. He may not have thought of that, but he probably demanded it and backed WDI.

Pandora is really the asset worth visiting in Avatar. As long as it does not turn into a 3D book report of the movie, we are fine. Cameron is too innovative to let that happen. I hope.

 

[HMF]

As long as it does not turn into a 3D book report of the movie, we are fine.

You mean like how Avatar was a 3-D Book Report on other movies.:lookaroun

 

[ob1thx1138]

You mean like how Avatar was a 3-D Book Report on other movies.:lookaroun

Yea just like Brave heart, Gladiator, the patriot, Dances With Wolves, Pocahontas, Fern Gully, etc....

Get over it. Similar stories will be told and retold over and over with different characters and different settings. If you can come up with a unique setting and visualization for a classic story then you could make millions in the movie industry.

Every classic Disney movie that everyone places on such a high pedestal is just a retelling of a classic fairy tale. Often times watered down and sanitized for a younger audience. Yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that.

 

[jt04]

Here's our good friend and frequent poster, Kevin Yee's latest discussion piece on Avatar. He mentions the PG13 rating, which I forgot about among other things. I think POTC was PG13. There are also speculations of location plots which you may also be interested in. Nice work Kevin. I do think Harry Potter appeals to adults and kids.

http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky100411a.htm

This was well written and I agree with his hope that it turns out to be a largely indoor immersive environment.

He does a great job of detailing all the options Disney faces. Personally I would like to see them add a resort or two near Corondo Springswhile placing Avatar on the large chunk of land behind Everest and Dinorama. This would mimic the business model that has been so successful at Epcot and the Epcot resorts. Add a self-contained transportation system to serve all those new areas and I think this new complex would print money for WDW.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Yea just like Brave heart, Gladiator, the patriot, Dances With Wolves, Pocahontas, Fern Gully, etc....

Get over it. Similar stories will be told and retold over and over with different characters and different settings. If you can come up with a unique setting and visualization for a classic story then you could make millions in the movie industry.

Every classic Disney movie that everyone places on such a high pedestal is just a retelling of a classic fairy tale. Often times watered down and sanitized for a younger audience. Yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that.

It's funny you guys bring this up. I remember the day it dawned on me that most Disney animated movies are pretty much the same film over and over.

http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero's_journey.htm

 

[WDW1974]

Here's our good friend and frequent poster, Kevin Yee's latest discussion piece on Avatar. He mentions the PG13 rating, which I forgot about among other things. I think POTC was PG13. There are also speculations of location plots which you may also be interested in. Nice work Kevin. I do think Harry Potter appeals to adults and kids.

http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky100411a.htm

That was an interesting read. Two thoughts that came to mind after reading, which I haven't seen get much attention online:

1.) Not only is the film PG-13 for sexual encounters amongst giant blue aliens, but also for being very violent. ______ and violence don't bother me ... BUT take a look at the film and who the bad guys are. They are a futuristic version of the USA's military (and make no mistake, Cameron was making a point here) who are out to steal a peaceful race's resources (unobtanium? REALLY?!?!? That's the best the writers could do?!?!) and commit genocide if need be to do so. Now, put this into the O-Town market where you get many conservative visitors who live a God, Guns and Glory mentality and love the military and one wonders how that aspect will be pixie dusted. I know it won't be touched on, but that isn't the point;

AND

2.) That Pandora needs a large air conditioned showbuilding is a given. You can't create the kind of vistas and show scenes in Central FLA scrub and 95 degree heat/humidity. But think about the fact the park is supposed to be about nature and going green and all that good stuff and think about the energy that will be spent to AC Pandora to make guests (the ones not blue and 8-feet tall) comfortable and you have one helluva conflict. I'm sure by the time it gets built Disney PR will have some answer to that question if anyone actually raises it.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

That was an interesting read. Two thoughts that came to mind after reading, which I haven't seen get much attention online:

1.) Not only is the film PG-13 for sexual encounters amongst giant blue aliens, but also for being very violent. ______ and violence don't bother me ... BUT take a look at the film and who the bad guys are. They are a futuristic version of the USA's military (and make no mistake, Cameron was making a point here) who are out to steal a peaceful race's resources (unobtanium? REALLY?!?!? That's the best the writers could do?!?!) and commit genocide if need be to do so. Now, put this into the O-Town market where you get many conservative visitors who live a God, Guns and Glory mentality and love the military and one wonders how that aspect will be pixie dusted. I know it won't be touched on, but that isn't the point;

AND

2.) That Pandora needs a large air conditioned showbuilding is a given. You can't create the kind of vistas and show scenes in Central FLA scrub and 95 degree heat/humidity. But think about the fact the park is supposed to be about nature and going green and all that good stuff and think about the energy that will be spent to AC Pandora to make guests (the ones not blue and 8-feet tall) comfortable and you have one helluva conflict. I'm sure by the time it gets built Disney PR will have some answer to that question if anyone actually raises it.

Good points all. They may give it the same treatment they gave "Tom Sawyer's Island", which is far more charged should it be graphically related. You just have fun in Tom and Huck's world and don't know or care about the story.

 

[KevinYee]

Tom Sawyer Island is a great example to quote as a parallel. How many people can recite the plot? Who buys Tom Sawyer merch in Target? Aren't there controversial subjects and forbidden words in that IP?

The reality is, if the environment delivers, that's all that matters. It's all that ever matters. Avatar already has this going for it: millions of moviegoers wanted to visit that place. Sounds like something a theme park ought to build.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Tom Sawyer Island is a great example to quote as a parallel. How many people can recite the plot? Who buys Tom Sawyer merch in Target? Aren't there controversial subjects and forbidden words in that IP?

The reality is, if the environment delivers, that's all that matters. It's all that ever matters. Avatar already has this going for it: millions of moviegoers wanted to visit that place. Sounds like something a theme park ought to build.

Of course, the big win is when you get both...story and world!

 

[KevinYee]

One great thing about being an online columnist: people email you. Got a message today from someone who may be an insider (I'm not certain) saying that not only is my suspected plot of land correct (behind Dinoland), but that Dino-Rama would be ripped out in the process.

In retrospect, this makes perfect sense. Dino-Rama is a blight on the park - even the Imagineers know it. Avatar makes a perfect excuse for removing that blight.

One could even concoct a connection between dinosaurs (pterodachtyls) and the flying dragon things in Avatar.

 

[IlikeDW]

Of course, the big win is when you get both...story and world!

As long as the World does not beat you over the head with story. I like it when the story is background, provides the detail that makes the world compelling whether you know the back story or not.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

As long as the World does not beat you over the head with story. I like it when the story is background, provides the detail that makes the world compelling whether you know the back story or not.

Agree. Good worlds don't do that. I'm referring to a movie or story you love and visiting the places where great things happened. If I explored the world of Peter Pan, then I'd want to land on the hand of the Big Ben. Connecting with those places for real helps you believe that the story really happened. Walking across Abbey Road where the Beatles tread.

 

[ob1thx1138]

That was an interesting read. Two thoughts that came to mind after reading, which I haven't seen get much attention online:

1.) Not only is the film PG-13 for sexual encounters amongst giant blue aliens, but also for being very violent. ______ and violence don't bother me ... BUT take a look at the film and who the bad guys are. They are a futuristic version of the USA's military (and make no mistake, Cameron was making a point here) who are out to steal a peaceful race's resources (unobtanium? REALLY?!?!? That's the best the writers could do?!?!) and commit genocide if need be to do so. Now, put this into the O-Town market where you get many conservative visitors who live a God, Guns and Glory mentality and love the military and one wonders how that aspect will be pixie dusted. I know it won't be touched on, but that isn't the point;

AND

2.) That Pandora needs a large air conditioned showbuilding is a given. You can't create the kind of vistas and show scenes in Central FLA scrub and 95 degree heat/humidity. But think about the fact the park is supposed to be about nature and going green and all that good stuff and think about the energy that will be spent to AC Pandora to make guests (the ones not blue and 8-feet tall) comfortable and you have one helluva conflict. I'm sure by the time it gets built Disney PR will have some answer to that question if anyone actually raises it.

Concerning the first point: The military was not involved it was a mercenary force funded by a major corporation. Think Halliburton, not US Army.

Also the plot of the second and third movie may involve the humans working with the aliens against a common enemy or attempting to bring balance back to the planet.

As for the second point: they could easily address this by placing a bunch of solar panels on the roof of the large space and maybe even add some themed wind turbines (the base has to get power from somewhere). So they could kill two birds with one stone here. Actually providing power and getting a little credit for being "responsible" which again ties into the storyline.