Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[MiklCraw4d]

They've toyed around this in the past. In the early 2000s, there was a "mega-booth" for Andalusia, Spain. It was obviously temporary - plywood everything - but it was far more than a booth. It was a little Spanish courtyard with a building front. At the time, Disney was publicly in talks (yet again) with Spain for a permanent pavilion. They even admitted it in the press, which is so rare these days.

A few years ago they had another mega-booth for Argentina or Chile or something. There have been others.

Food and Wine is so successful I'm surprised they haven't done more of these. There was a plan around the millennium to fill some of the vacant lots with groupings of mini-pavilions centered on a similar regional theme, but they punted and went with the temporary Millennium Village instead.

Sponsorships have been mentioned, and I'm sure one of the reasons Disney doesn't want to fork out for something themselves is because it'll make all the corporate sponsors funding other pavilions say, "Hey - wait a second."

I've believed for a while that Disney has to bite the bullet and re-examine how EPCOT is set up, sponsorship-wise. It had a very unique model that was well-suited to the late 70s and early 80s, but it doesn't work as well today nor is it conducive to a good theme park.

So I'm looking at today's article on the EPCOT Food and Wine Festival

http://www.yesterland.com/wine2011.html

and it occurred to me that since it's likely that World Showcase will never have a complete number of countries to live up to it's name, what would happen if they made some the more successful Food and Wine Festival elements permanent? It's so fun to taste all of these countries, that seems like a really good value, energizes the space and completes the picture to a degree. It makes EPCOT the food park. You may not do them all, but at least build permanent booths for some of the obvious places that will never be in EPCOT. The new Hawaii stand triggered this thought as I thought that it would be fun to be able to always try that booth. Why not?

 

[ob1thx1138]

I like to think that a pavilion would be much more successful if the country it is representing is actually involved. Sure Disney could hire consultants and all of that, but it just seems to be more legitimate if the government of that country is somehow involved in the design and execution of the space.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Hey Eddie ... been reading your thread with interest when time allows, but avoiding the back and forth of posting as it has become very unpleasant in the current social media/you must love or hate the Disney BRAND unconditionally atmosphere (not on your thread, or even here on MAGIC, but in general throughout the fan community as people get in on living something called 'The Disney Lifestyle' -- I don't know what it is, but it sounds scary!), so I might have missed these topics.

Word is going around that you may be tied up in Knott's soon. I think that would be a great move as they finally have some strong leadership with a vision at the head of that company.

On another note, recently spent some time at DLR and got to ride Mermaid at DCA for the first time. Don't know if you've covered this, but it felt very cheap to me ... C+ Ticket I guess is how I'd word it. Would have been a great attraction if it were 1995, not 2011. No real leaps in technology that I saw (unless someone will point out the Ursula AA). I was much more impressed by Star Tours, frankly. What were your thoughts about Mermaid?

The Little Mermaid is a fun attraction - If we're under the impression that Peter Pan and Winnie the Pooh are C-tickets, then Mermaid is a D.

Not every addition to the parks needs to be a mindblowing E-Ticket attraction. Mermaid will fit into Fantasyland, and should be the strongest ride in the land when it opens. It's not The Haunted Mansion, it's not Pirates of the Caribbean and it's not Splash Mountain - but that doesn't mean it's a bad attraction.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The Little Mermaid is a fun attraction - If we're under the impression that Peter Pan and Winnie the Pooh are C-tickets, then Mermaid is a D.

Not every addition to the parks needs to be a mindblowing E-Ticket attraction. Mermaid will fit into Fantasyland, and should be the strongest ride in the land when it opens. It's not The Haunted Mansion, it's not Pirates of the Caribbean and it's not Splash Mountain - but that doesn't mean it's a bad attraction.

That's kind of how I see it too. Mermaid added a type of attraction to DCA's mix it did not really have, so that's good. It's a D, only for some the expectation based on it's scope (huge entry and facade) and scale may expect an E.

 

[WDW1974]

Well the Knott's idea is wishful thinking at best right now. Because of my history there and Matt Ouimet being the new Cedar Fair CEO, some posters have expressed interest in my being a part of the future of the farm somehow. That would be fun, who knows?

KBF has really been improving of late from what I've been told. Many of the little details that gave the place its soul ... its Spirit :animwink: ... have been coming back. Things that were allowed to decay have been restored. I'm very hopeful for the park's future.

Having Matt, someone who cares about the actual product when there isn't a media member or social media podcaster around, is a huge gain for the place. I'm sure your history and knowledge of the Farm could only help the resurgence, which really is needed. I visit KBF about every 6-7 years, am disappointed and wait and repeat. I really want a reason to return when I next visit!

I was supposed to go to the Haunt last weekend, which I've heard is the best Halloween event anywhere. I believe your old pal Tony B concurs. Unfortunately, between scheduling changes and business, I wasn't able to.

I have not experienced the Mermaid ride yet, but my 12 year old daughter has and she enjoyed it. I think to her it was a D. We all loved Star Tours and that was the bit hit at our house. The parks are so crowded and I'm so busy, I tend to stay away unless business brings me down there.

I don't want to sound like I didn't enjoy it, but it didn't come close to living up to the hype -- remember when it was announced and folks (perhaps John Lasseter himself) were getting a bit too excited and calling it an E-Ticket? Omnimovers and a few real AAs don't make an E-Ticket. It was OK ... but in the end, I felt letdown. It doesn't matter as much at DCA as it is being added with so much else. But with it being the centerpiece of the MK expansion, I think it's going to come off as very weak.

Star Tours, on the other hand, was a VERY pleasant surprise. And I haven't been a Star Wars fan since George gave the world Jar Jar! It seemed so much 'fresher' than LM. It also didn't even need the 3D gimmick. The redo was top-notch from queue (with the exception of them not leaving enough space for people to load in the queue lines, which had me wondering if they brought the outer wall in closer?) to the ride experience. Rode three times. Got three largely different, but all enjoyable, experiences. It's the only thing I'm looking forward to riding at WDW on my fall visit.

Maybe it's all about expectations and how you market things ...

Good to hear your voice here, it's always welcome!

Thanks. Much appreciated. ... At the risk of asking something that already has been (in one form or another) but why do feel Disney is so afraid to use its own IP in making uber-kewl park attractions/environments? Between Disney, Pixar, Muppets and Marvel ('cuse me as I get rid of the vomit:hurl: in my mouth :hurl not to mention the IP of George Lucas that TWDC has rights to, why spend a fortune to go blue and deal with James Cameron (this is the company that couldn't get along with Henson, Spielberg, Lucas, Lasseter etc after all ... or come to a deal with Rowling when Cameron is widely known as much more difficult than any of the others)?

Do they have no faith in their own IP? BTW, I'm still waiting for a real ride version of the Aladdin Magic Carpets that I test rode at EPCOT about 15-16 years ago now! ...

 

[WDW1974]

The Little Mermaid is a fun attraction - If we're under the impression that Peter Pan and Winnie the Pooh are C-tickets, then Mermaid is a D.

Perhaps, but it left me looking at all the ways it could have been plussed at very little cost.

Not every addition to the parks needs to be a mindblowing E-Ticket attraction. Mermaid will fit into Fantasyland, and should be the strongest ride in the land when it opens. It's not The Haunted Mansion, it's not Pirates of the Caribbean and it's not Splash Mountain - but that doesn't mean it's a bad attraction.

No, they don't. But when it's been 19 years since you last built an E-Ticket at the world's alleged No. 1 theme park, just a decent addition really doesn't cut it with me. DCA can get away with it because the entire park is being recreated and so much else is coming.

And sometimes relatively small family attractions can raise the bar or be what I would consider an E-Ticket ... like Sinbad's Storybook Adventures in TDS.

Point is, even as a D-Ticket, Mermaid looks more like a mid-90s version rather than a 21st century one..

Not bad, just not all that good.

 

[RandySavage]

"Saving" Knotts (i.e., turning it to a compelling theme park experience like Disneyland) would require ripping out all of the huge, expensive naked steel coasters that cover the place like a Six Flags, wouldn't it?

Would Oiumet, who likely understands what makes theme parks compelling, be able justify that to investors/owners?

 

[RSoxNo1]

Perhaps, but it left me looking at all the ways it could have been plussed at very little cost.



No, they don't. But when it's been 19 years since you last built an E-Ticket at the world's alleged No. 1 theme park, just a decent addition really doesn't cut it with me. DCA can get away with it because the entire park is being recreated and so much else is coming.

And sometimes relatively small family attractions can raise the bar or be what I would consider an E-Ticket ... like Sinbad's Storybook Adventures in TDS.

Point is, even as a D-Ticket, Mermaid looks more like a mid-90s version rather than a 21st century one..

Not bad, just not all that good.

Yes, the Magic Kingdom needs another E-Ticket attraction, but if the choice was the two D-Tickets that we're getting versus another E-Ticket, then I'd take the two D-Tickets. That's just me.

As for Star Tours - While the line is great, you really don't get "stuck" near the two best features the two scanning droids. I went into Star Tours at DHS a couple weeks ago during EMH and just stood and watched the luggage scanning droid for 5-10 minutes. I was indifferent towards the original Star Tours, and I don't think the current version is worth of the Disneyland wait times, but it's certainly a fun ride and has been added to my roster of things to do at DHS.

 

[WDW1974]

"Saving" Knotts (i.e., turning it to a compelling theme park experience like Disneyland) would require ripping out all of the huge, expensive naked steel coasters that cover the place like a Six Flags, wouldn't it?

Would Oiumet, who likely understands what makes theme parks compelling, be able justify that to investors/owners?

I would disagree with the premise. I don't think you need to tear out any/every steel coaster ... some, perhaps.

People complain about IOA because you can see Hulk over PoE or Dragons over WWoHP. I think they are weak excuses by folks who simply want things done the way Disney does them.

Knott's can mesh things just fine IF it continues to go back to the Old West theming in parts of the park and plussing them, while also having top notch thrill rides like WindSeeker, which looked very kewl when driving by (even though I have some height issues!)

 

[WDW1974]

Yes, the Magic Kingdom needs another E-Ticket attraction, but if the choice was the two D-Tickets that we're getting versus another E-Ticket, then I'd take the two D-Tickets. That's just me.

Well, I'd argue that MK isn't getting two D-Tickets. More like two C+'s at best. And even adding them, they need more. Remember, they are being added to give back capacity that has been taken out over the years. They need to ADD capacity. And a major E-Ticket would do so.

As for Star Tours - While the line is great, you really don't get "stuck" near the two best features the two scanning droids. I went into Star Tours at DHS a couple weeks ago during EMH and just stood and watched the luggage scanning droid for 5-10 minutes. I was indifferent towards the original Star Tours, and I don't think the current version is worth of the Disneyland wait times, but it's certainly a fun ride and has been added to my roster of things to do at DHS.

I have only ridden DL's version (will see WDW's later this fall). I really liked the queue and thought it was plussed. I enjoyed the detail, but I am not a 'the queue is the ride' type of fan. So, I don't care how much detail a queue has or how many easter eggs are tossed to fanbois if the ride blows. If the attraction is enjoyable, then the queue just adds to things.

As to waits, I saw long waits (usually 50-60 minutes plus) over Labor Day weekend at DL. I FP'd all three times and never waited more than 10-12 minutes. I don't believe in waiting very long for ANY theme park attraction. But that's just me.

I see folks wait hours to ride things they've been on multiple times before and just smile and laugh and move on ... different strokes.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

"Saving" Knotts (i.e., turning it to a compelling theme park experience like Disneyland) would require ripping out all of the huge, expensive naked steel coasters that cover the place like a Six Flags, wouldn't it?

Would Oiumet, who likely understands what makes theme parks compelling, be able justify that to investors/owners?

The Roaring 20's area was anchored by a steel corkscrew coaster so it's not necessarily that alone. There is a lot more to steering the park than a placemaking exercise. Agree that the teeniron is a drag. I doubt KBF could justify that kind of radical surgery as it is a stand alone business with less cash. Probably something in between with more immediate return. Me thinks it can be done.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Would Oiumet, who likely understands what makes theme parks compelling, be able justify that to investors/owners?

Probably not because Cedar Fair is not a theme park operator, it is an amusement park operator. It may be possible to position Knott's Berry Farm as a unique asset that requires unique attention due to its market, but that may still be a hard sell.

 

[jt04]

Just wanted to add a few thoughts to possibly clear the air a bit.

Jason Garcia's recent articles (he is on a roll lately and doing his homework) indicate that Disney is not looking to expand ticket sales at the MK but rather seeking to provide a better guest experience to better maintain on-property numbers. I am convinced this is also at least partially in response to Legoland but that is not why I am writing this.

There have been complaints for years that Disney has not added any E-Ticket type rides to the MK for around two decades now. I think we can now see that is because they were building out elsewhere but also they were concerned with the numbers at the MK and not providing a proper guest experience. This is why they reconfigured the tram service at the MK parking lot. It may also be why we did not get mega-Space Mountain.

The FLE, the new MK interactive game, all those new M&Gs and the interactive queues can now be seen for what they are. They are almost exclusively designed to help the MK handle the numbers of people it gets so that guests are liklier to stay on property longer and also return for future visits.

However, another way to help handle the MK crowds is to motivate guests to visit the other three parks. Hence DAK gets Avatar. And I suspect any funds going forward that are available for E Ticket style attractions will almost exclusively go to DAK, Epcot and the Studios until the crowds are better distributed. See Star Tours and TSMM.

Someone asked why Disney would partner with the demanding Cameron as they rebalance the parks at WDW when there have been problems dealing with third parties in the past. Simple put, Iger was around when much of those issues were happening. It appears he learned from those events or is just the type of person who plays well with others. Either way, I think he has proven this will not be a problem with Cameron. After all, it was Iger who rebuilt all those relationships.

Some thought he could not get the China deal done because he was not well versed in the way the Chinese do things or he was culturally incapable of understanding Chinese sensibilities. Obviously this was not the case. It seems people continually underestimate him.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Just wanted to add a few thoughts to possibly clear the air a bit.

Jason Garcia's recent articles (he is on a roll lately and doing his homework) indicate that Disney is not looking to expand ticket sales at the MK but rather seeking to provide a better guest experience to better maintain on-property numbers. I am convinced this is also at least partially in response to Legoland but that is not why I am writing this.

There have been complaints for years that Disney has not added any E-Ticket type rides to the MK for around two decades now. I think we can now see that is because they were building out elsewhere but also they were concerned with the numbers at the MK and not providing a proper guest experience. This is why they reconfigured the tram service at the MK parking lot. It may also be why we did not get mega-Space Mountain.

The FLE, the new MK interactive game, all those new M&Gs and the interactive queues can now be seen for what they are. They are almost exclusively designed to help the MK handle the numbers of people it gets so that guests are liklier to stay on property longer and also return for future visits.

However, another way to help handle the MK crowds is to motivate guests to visit the other three parks. Hence DAK gets Avatar. And I suspect any funds going forward that are available for E Ticket style attractions will almost exclusively go to DAK, Epcot and the Studios until the crowds are better distributed. See Star Tours and TSMM.

Someone asked why Disney would partner with the demanding Cameron as they rebalance the parks at WDW when there have been problems dealing with third parties in the past. Simple put, Iger was around when much of those issues were happening. It appears he learned from those events or is just the type of person who plays well with others. Either way, I think he has proven this will not be a problem with Cameron. After all, it was Iger who rebuilt all those relationships.

Some thought he could not get the China deal done because he was not well versed in the way the Chinese do things or he was culturally incapable of understanding Chinese sensibilities. Obviously this was not the case. It seems people continually underestimate him.

Seems like a grounded perspective. Bob also mended the Steve Jobs/Pixar fence years ago as well.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The biggest issue I have with Disney's expenditures on the Magic Kingdom is that the park still retains vacant or significantly under utilized spaces that were once open to the public. Likely caused by the size of the Disney machine, it is a lack of agility that is a hindrance that should be addressed but likely gets delayed due to the continued attendance numbers at the Magic Kingdom.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The biggest issue I have with Disney's expenditures on the Magic Kingdom is that the park still retains vacant or significantly under utilized spaces that were once open to the public. Likely caused by the size of the Disney machine, it is a lack of agility that is a hindrance that should be addressed but likely gets delayed due to the continued attendance numbers at the Magic Kingdom.

The MK does so well that they have not needed to add the E tickets that the other parks that are lagging need to drive attendance. they have been enhancing the experience so guests want to come back, that's great. The turnstile that squeaks the loudest gets the grease so AK gets the E. It's surprising in this economy that they are globally spending what they are.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

It's surprising in this economy that they are globally spending what they are.

Some time ago, when WWoHP was being built, it seemed that lots of people were piling on Disney about why they weren't spending any money on new attractions to counter this "threat". So now we see that they are spending a few BILLION dollars these last few years and going forward for a complete DCA re-do, CarsLand, FLE, Star Tours, new resorts, Shanghai, refurbs everywhere you look, and now Avatarland in AK, and that's not even all of it. And they promise that more announcements are yet to come! So I wonder what those people complaining a few years ago think now? What has Universal done lately that even comes close to all of this? Of course, for some, it still isn't enough. :shrug:

 

[lazyboy97o]

The MK does so well that they have not needed to add the E tickets that the other parks that are lagging need to drive attendance. they have been enhancing the experience so guests want to come back, that's great. The turnstile that squeaks the loudest gets the grease so AK gets the E. It's surprising in this economy that they are globally spending what they are.

I am not talking attractions, much less E-ticket attractions, but space such as restaurants which would address the capacity issue and are being added as part of the Fantasyland expansion. Throughout the years retail and dining spaces were closed to guests and remain either closed or under utilized even as the park now needs capacity. Instead of working to reutilize existing space, the decision was made to build new facilities out in Fantasyland, tied to some rather big and underrepresented intellectual property. A new big dining experience is not going to help crowding significantly if it becomes another place people flock towards. The park needs more laid back, less headline offerings that guests discover upon entering the park and provide relief from the burgeoning crowds.

 

[WDW1974]

There have been complaints for years that Disney has not added any E-Ticket type rides to the MK for around two decades now. I think we can now see that is because they were building out elsewhere but also they were concerned with the numbers at the MK and not providing a proper guest experience. This is why they reconfigured the tram service at the MK parking lot. It may also be why we did not get mega-Space Mountain.

Ah, JT. You always come through. The MK has attractions (signature ones at that) which have been running in shambles and you talk about a proper guest experience. They didn't add a major attraction because they felt they didn't need to. People would come year after year and see the same stale things (that were falling apart) because Old Man Disney never said anything about 'Disneyland always being in a state of becoming'.

So, no E-Ticket at MK because they decided to redo the parking lot? Really?.:ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL:

How about they redid the parking lot because it too was in bad shape and they decided guests weren't smart enough to remember or type into their iPhones the row they parked in, so they needed to dumb it down?

And Space Mountain's horrible redo had everything to do with saving $$$.

You sound like you believe Disney wants to discourage people from visiting the MK. Why don't you think about how that really sounds?

The FLE, the new MK interactive game, all those new M&Gs and the interactive queues can now be seen for what they are. They are almost exclusively designed to help the MK handle the numbers of people it gets so that guests are liklier to stay on property longer and also return for future visits.

They are ways of entertaining guests with the attention spans of knats while they are at the parks. I guess you could make an argument that people slowing down to touch and play with things in the queues does keep them on property longer. :lol:

However, another way to help handle the MK crowds is to motivate guests to visit the other three parks. Hence DAK gets Avatar. And I suspect any funds going forward that are available for E Ticket style attractions will almost exclusively go to DAK, Epcot and the Studios until the crowds are better distributed. See Star Tours and TSMM.

People have a limited amount of vacation time in the USA. This hasn't changed over the years. If anything, people have less time now. So if Avatar gets built and if it is amazing, then all it is likely to do is take guests away from visiting another park (likely a Disney one) and history has shown it won't be MK that gets hurt. People visit there like it's the Vatican. They may take a day away from EPCOT ... or TPFKaTD-MGMS ... or even UNI/IOA/SW/etc. But Avatar isn't going to make MK crowds go down.

Someone asked why Disney would partner with the demanding Cameron as they rebalance the parks at WDW when there have been problems dealing with third parties in the past. Simple put, Iger was around when much of those issues were happening. It appears he learned from those events or is just the type of person who plays well with others. Either way, I think he has proven this will not be a problem with Cameron. After all, it was Iger who rebuilt all those relationships.

Someone, JT? C'mon. You mention me when I don't post here in months at a time and now you're attempting to quote what I said. It's OK, it's your old pal '74 wasting time he won't get back at the end of his days.

If Iger played well with others, he would have had a deal done with J.K. and no one would be paying attention to what was happening up the road at UNI. Iger has a very large ego, as one might expect. Cameron has a very large ego, as one might expect. Many Imagineers have very large egos ... it's going to be a very interesting relationship to watch.

Some thought he could not get the China deal done because he was not well versed in the way the Chinese do things or he was culturally incapable of understanding Chinese sensibilities. Obviously this was not the case. It seems people continually underestimate him.

Actually, JT, as someone intimately aware with many aspects of this deal, you're flat out wrong. The deal was almost dead in 2006 after Iger's underlings botched a very important Shanghai delegation visit to DLP. The deal was on life support and Iger kept trying to pull the plug by demanding a Disney Channel and more of a market for Disney films (things he didn't get in the final deal, btw). The reason why it ultimately happened was our economy collapsed in 2008 bringing much of the global economy down with it, including (naturally) our biggest supplier of 'stuff' -- China. The fates were finally on Disney's side to get a deal done and they did.

I don't underestimate Iger because I get major media. I don't overestimate him either like many fans do.

By the time Avatarland gets built, Iger will be long gone from the company (likely to play the political game in NY state). Take that to the bank ... or just play with it when you're standing in line for Pooh!

 

[RSoxNo1]

Ah, JT. You always come through. The MK has attractions (signature ones at that) which have been running in shambles and you talk about a proper guest experience. They didn't add a major attraction because they felt they didn't need to. People would come year after year and see the same stale things (that were falling apart) because Old Man Disney never said anything about 'Disneyland always being in a state of becoming'.

So, no E-Ticket at MK because they decided to redo the parking lot? Really?.:ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL:

How about they redid the parking lot because it too was in bad shape and they decided guests weren't smart enough to remember or type into their iPhones the row they parked in, so they needed to dumb it down?

And Space Mountain's horrible redo had everything to do with saving $$$.

You sound like you believe Disney wants to discourage people from visiting the MK. Why don't you think about how that really sounds?



They are ways of entertaining guests with the attention spans of knats while they are at the parks. I guess you could make an argument that people slowing down to touch and play with things in the queues does keep them on property longer. :lol:



People have a limited amount of vacation time in the USA. This hasn't changed over the years. If anything, people have less time now. So if Avatar gets built and if it is amazing, then all it is likely to do is take guests away from visiting another park (likely a Disney one) and history has shown it won't be MK that gets hurt. People visit there like it's the Vatican. They may take a day away from EPCOT ... or TPFKaTD-MGMS ... or even UNI/IOA/SW/etc. But Avatar isn't going to make MK crowds go down.




Someone, JT? C'mon. You mention me when I don't post here in months at a time and now you're attempting to quote what I said. It's OK, it's your old pal '74 wasting time he won't get back at the end of his days.

If Iger played well with others, he would have had a deal done with J.K. and no one would be paying attention to what was happening up the road at UNI. Iger has a very large ego, as one might expect. Cameron has a very large ego, as one might expect. Many Imagineers have very large egos ... it's going to be a very interesting relationship to watch.



Actually, JT, as someone intimately aware with many aspects of this deal, you're flat out wrong. The deal was almost dead in 2006 after Iger's underlings botched a very important Shanghai delegation visit to DLP. The deal was on life support and Iger kept trying to pull the plug by demanding a Disney Channel and more of a market for Disney films (things he didn't get in the final deal, btw). The reason why it ultimately happened was our economy collapsed in 2008 bringing much of the global economy down with it, including (naturally) our biggest supplier of 'stuff' -- China. The fates were finally on Disney's side to get a deal done and they did.

I don't underestimate Iger because I get major media. I don't overestimate him either like many fans do.

By the time Avatarland gets built, Iger will be long gone from the company (likely to play the political game in NY state). Take that to the bank ... or just play with it when you're standing in line for Pooh!

Is it wrong that I was eagerly anticipating your response to jt? Some quick points:

• The parking lot changes at TTC make sense - I can't stand that whenever a minor change is made, an irrelevant point is followed by fanboys regarding "why isn't this a new attraction"
• Short of multiple simultaneously additions across the boards to the other parks, the Magic Kingdom will not take a substantial attendance hit for the reasons you mentioned.
• DAK already passed DHS in attendance this year - I wouldn't be surprised to see an additional ride added to DHS prior to, or in the same time frame as Avatar.