Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

I actually found the SS Disney article more interesting than the Disney India article! Thank you for the link.

It's seeming more and more that the Disney Parks is one of the only truly Disney "franchises" that TWDC feels they can capitalize on. It doesn't seem like they have much faith in any other "Disney" property or in developing new fanchises to grow. I haven't fully developed this idea so what I'm trying to get at might not be completely clear...

I definitely think the world is becoming a little too saturated with Disney Parks. I am planning to visit all of them one day but they're building them faster than I can afford to visit them. So far I've only been able to cross off the domestic parks from my list.

The stock has been pretty flat for years and so the only way for them to find any significant growth is to grow the parks as they introduce the company in a unique way into new markets that goes beyond TV and movies. In Japan there are a significant number of people that first learned Disney through the parks and not through the media.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Can they put the park in Nepal, capture a real Yeti and bring it to Florida?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

There are interesting lessons in every park. Having worked on Tokyo Disneyland and Disneyland Paris, you really get an appreciation for how other cultures not only think, but dine, behave in line, spend their money, and see your brand. Each culture filters the imagery of the parks and it means something different to them. You want to do what you are good at, but you have to realize that literally much can be lost in translation. That is why understanding positivism and building optimism is so important as you have to transcend the culture and reach the guest at a deeper emotional level. Silent Movies are the most universal thing I can imagine as you just read the faces. Chaplin was the most famous person on earth because of it. His feelings were universal and were simplistic. So you have to make a park emotionally "legible" to the guest and know what you want to say at the base level.

Hmm, I can really understand that when I just walk down Main Street at WDW. The smells, sounds, and even some of the sights are at a base level. You smell the baked goods, you can hear people in the second floor talking, giving music lessons, etc. The forced perspective as you're walking towards the castle, to make it seem larger than it really is. All seem to speak to us at a lower level, and add so much to the environment and experience.

Not having been to Disneyland Paris or Toyko Disneyland yet, do they have the same or similar experiences as your walk in and head towards the castle? What else does Disney do that reaches us at this level?

 

[modegreen]

The stock has been pretty flat for years and so the only way for them to find any significant growth is to grow the parks as they introduce the company in a unique way into new markets that goes beyond TV and movies. In Japan there are a significant number of people that first learned Disney through the parks and not through the media.

See also: Universal Studios Singapore, which I think is more the model Disney should be following (i.e. medium-sized Theme Park, hotels, downtown complex, water park, casinos... basically, an integrated resort that's small yet still a draw from the start, as part of a larger development called "Resorts World Sentosa"). That makes more sense to me than building another Paris or Tokyo-sized property. Even HKDL seems too large to me (they have room for another park, but it feels like they started with the park and three hotels first instead of building an entire cohesive resort... it looks like they have room for another park and Downtown Disney, along with other resorts). I'm hoping Shanghai starts off like Sentosa.

 

[ChrisFL]

Disney in India...didn't really surprise me at all...the only other place I can see a Disney resort in the forseeable future would be Brazil. I think after that, we aren't going to see any other major countries get one.

In a way, this could be considered a "safe" bet, like Shanghai....taking on a smaller chunk of the ownership, put it into a massive population center that does have a lot of upper and middle class residents, and go from there.

I'm purely speaking on business terms though, I will let others share their thoughts on if this "deludes" the Disney brand in any way.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

See also: Universal Studios Singapore, which I think is more the model Disney should be following (i.e. medium-sized Theme Park, hotels, downtown complex, water park, casinos... basically, an integrated resort that's small yet still a draw from the start, as part of a larger development called "Resorts World Sentosa"). That makes more sense to me than building another Paris or Tokyo-sized property. Even HKDL seems too large to me (they have room for another park, but it feels like they started with the park and three hotels first instead of building an entire cohesive resort... it looks like they have room for another park and Downtown Disney, along with other resorts). I'm hoping Shanghai starts off like Sentosa.

I agree that Sentosa is a better model. It is a microcosm of WDW, but on less land.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

World Showcase

So I'm looking at today's article on the EPCOT Food and Wine Festival

http://www.yesterland.com/wine2011.html

and it occurred to me that since it's likely that World Showcase will never have a complete number of countries to live up to it's name, what would happen if they made some the more successful Food and Wine Festival elements permanent? It's so fun to taste all of these countries, that seems like a really good value, energizes the space and completes the picture to a degree. It makes EPCOT the food park. You may not do them all, but at least build permanent booths for some of the obvious places that will never be in EPCOT. The new Hawaii stand triggered this thought as I thought that it would be fun to be able to always try that booth. Why not?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

So I'm looking at today's article on the EPCOT Food and Wine Festival and it occurred to me that since it's likely that World Showcase will never have a complete number of countries to live up to it's name, what would happen if they made some the more successful Food and Wine Festival elements permanent? It's so fun to taste all of these countries, that seems like a really good value, energizes the space and completes the picture to a degree. It makes EPCOT the food park. You may not do them all, but at least build permanent booths for some of the obvious places that will never be in EPCOT. The new Hawaii stand triggered this thought as I thought that it would be fun to be able to always try that booth. Why not?

Wow, that would be awesome! My wife and I are regular Food & Wine visitors, and that would be a welcome addition to the park. We just love to go there, and no matter what park we start out at, we always end up at EPCOT every day during Food & Wine. Of course, I understand that some might think that it would dilute the experience if it's there all the time, but they don't have to add all of them. Just some, and then bring the rest back during the normal times. Great idea, Eddie!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Wow, that would be awesome! My wife and I are regular Food & Wine visitors, and that would be a welcome addition to the park. We just love to go there, and no matter what park we start out at, we always end up at EPCOT every day during Food & Wine. Of course, I understand that some might think that it would dilute the experience if it's there all the time, but they don't have to add all of them. Just some, and then bring the rest back during the normal times. Great idea, Eddie!

Glad you like it. To me, World Showcase is so stale, and the films are so dated, it needs something to energize it. I think sacrificing an event for the long term health is a good direction and you may still do a wine fest on top of all of it. So those Booths done in a prettier and more permanent way, perhaps with some cultural tie in would be so much fun.

 

[ChrisFL]

Glad you like it. To me, World Showcase is so stale, and the films are so dated, it needs something to energize it. I think sacrificing an event for the long term health is a good direction and you may still do a wine fest on top of all of it. So those Booths done in a prettier and more permanent way, perhaps with some cultural tie in would be so much fun.

Eddie: I realize you haven't been to Epcot for a while, so the only films that are dated are France and Norway...China and Canada have been updated within the past few years...and the ending of American Adventure has been updated a few times.

There's no excuse for not updating the Norway film though, it doesn't require 5 cameras or 9 cameras to film it, and its a whopping 5 total minutes.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie: I realize you haven't been to Epcot for a while, so the only films that are dated are France and Norway...China and Canada have been updated within the past few years...and the ending of American Adventure has been updated a few times.

There's no excuse for not updating the Norway film though, it doesn't require 5 cameras or 9 cameras to film it, and its a whopping 5 total minutes.

Thank you, that helps. My point is that the World Showcase is conceptually incomplete (they planned to have more countries) and at times obviously irrelevant. Anything to stitch it together into a more compelling experience would be welcome.

 

[ChrisFL]

Thank you, that helps. My point is that the World Showcase is conceptually incomplete (they planned to have more countries) and at times obviously irrelevant. Anything to stitch it together into a more compelling experience would be welcome.

Yes, I didn't mean to disagree with the sentiment, just wanted to give you an update.

I agree they really could use some permanent kiosks with more food and wine...right now is my favorite time of year because of F&W

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Yes, I didn't mean to disagree with the sentiment, just wanted to give you an update.

I agree they really could use some permanent kiosks with more food and wine...right now is my favorite time of year because of F&W

I'd love to see some barges dressed like Islands roaming the lagoon so you can hop on and island hop to Hawaii, Tahiti and Australia.

 

[AEfx]

Thank you, that helps. My point is that the World Showcase is conceptually incomplete (they planned to have more countries) and at times obviously irrelevant. Anything to stitch it together into a more compelling experience would be welcome.

Is it just money why they haven't added any new pavilions in several decades?

I find it so odd that Disney needs a sponsor to build an attraction. I get why it makes sense for them (they get out of it cheaper), but it's kind of like a rich guy asking you to buy his cup of coffee because he doesn't have any small bills.

I guess they make so much treating it like a glorified outdoor mall/food court to think it needs any sort of expansion for decades?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Is it just money why they haven't added any new pavilions in several decades?

I find it so odd that Disney needs a sponsor to build an attraction. I get why it makes sense for them (they get out of it cheaper), but it's kind of like a rich guy asking you to buy his cup of coffee because he doesn't have any small bills.

I guess they make so much treating it like a glorified outdoor mall/food court to think it needs any sort of expansion for decades?

That's the business model, although with companies like Kodak seeing their fortunes change for the worse, the business of doing these pavilions has gotten very tough. The global economy won't get you a Greece pavilion, that's for sure. The big $$$ EPCOT pavilions (i.e. Space, Test Track) are usually the vision of a CEO who wants to leave a legacy and that is a vanity project. GM is one big ad. the sell has gotten harder was the parks have less potential sponsors and they have to bend more for the money. There is more to these sponsorships than a ride or pavilion as there are promotional things in movies, happy meals, etc. The only reason you still see Coke, Kodak and other Credit Card companies in there is that they get to do business in the parks. When film was big, Kodak sold 10% of all of it's film in theme parks. Coke sells lots of product at the parks and so they have to pay the sponsor fees or their beverages are not sold there. All of these "cool spots" with misters from Coke were part of a big movement to "activate" sales as they thought they were not getting enough out of their deal (they paid for the kiosks). They wanted more exposure on Cups, roaming vendors, and more Coke presence everywhere and we had to do that as Corporate (Mike Ovitz) wanted it. To his credit, Eisner thought they were getting too much name recognition and rejected many of the cup designs. Look at the impact of the McDonalds deal in the parks. If you want to dilute escapism, put in a Chuckwagon selling McDonalds fries. Once Coke got their way, Nestle and the other big gun sponsors wanted their stuff more visible and wanted to drive sales. The cumulative effect in the lands was obvious. I love how a paper towel company has instructions on "how to wash your hands" in the bathrooms. Thanks for that.

Interesting times.

Bottom line, finding sponsors is really tough and if they do come in, they want sales.

 

[Alektronic]

That's the business model, although with companies like Kodak seeing their fortunes change for the worse, the business of doing these pavilions has gotten very tough. The global economy won't get you a Greece pavilion, that's for sure. The big $$$ EPCOT pavilions (i.e. Space, Test Track) are usually the vision of a CEO who wants to leave a legacy and that is a vanity project. GM is one big ad. the sell has gotten harder was the parks have less potential sponsors and they have to bend more for the money. There is more to these sponsorships than a ride or pavilion as there are promotional things in movies, happy meals, etc. The only reason you still see Coke, Kodak and other Credit Card companies in there is that they get to do business in the parks. When film was big, Kodak sold 10% of all of it's film in theme parks. Coke sells lots of product at the parks and so they have to pay the sponsor fees or their beverages are not sold there. All of these "cool spots" with misters from Coke were part of a big movement to "activate" sales as they thought they were not getting enough out of their deal (they paid for the kiosks). They wanted more exposure on Cups, roaming vendors, and more Coke presence everywhere and we had to do that as Corporate (Mike Ovitz) wanted it. To his credit, Eisner thought they were getting too much name recognition and rejected many of the cup designs. Look at the impact of the McDonalds deal in the parks. If you want to dilute escapism, put in a Chuckwagon selling McDonalds fries. Once Coke got their way, Nestle and the other big gun sponsors wanted their stuff more visible and wanted to drive sales. The cumulative effect in the lands was obvious. I love how a paper towel company has instructions on "how to wash your hands" in the bathrooms. Thanks for that.

Interesting times.

Bottom line, finding sponsors is really tough and if they do come in, they want sales.

It depends on the contract, but there is a lot of behind the scenes sales also. GM is a sponsor, so every company vehicle is a GM product. HP is a sponsor, so every company computer, monitor and printer is a HP product. That is a lot of computers. When GE was a sponsor, every light bulb purchased was required to be a GE product.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I love how a paper towel company has instructions on "how to wash your hands" in the bathrooms. Thanks for that.

What's amusing to me is the "Sparkle" signs in the bathrooms at Lights Motors Action, which is sponsored by Brawny.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It depends on the contract, but there is a lot of behind the scenes sales also. GM is a sponsor, so every company vehicle is a GM product. HP is a sponsor, so every company computer, monitor and printer is a HP product. That is a lot of computers. When GE was a sponsor, every light bulb purchased was required to be a GE product.

Yes, although there are ways around that if the sponsors product does not fill the need or is priced well beyond the market.

 

[WDW1974]

Hey Eddie ... been reading your thread with interest when time allows, but avoiding the back and forth of posting as it has become very unpleasant in the current social media/you must love or hate the Disney BRAND unconditionally atmosphere (not on your thread, or even here on MAGIC, but in general throughout the fan community as people get in on living something called 'The Disney Lifestyle' -- I don't know what it is, but it sounds scary!), so I might have missed these topics.

Word is going around that you may be tied up in Knott's soon. I think that would be a great move as they finally have some strong leadership with a vision at the head of that company.

On another note, recently spent some time at DLR and got to ride Mermaid at DCA for the first time. Don't know if you've covered this, but it felt very cheap to me ... C+ Ticket I guess is how I'd word it. Would have been a great attraction if it were 1995, not 2011. No real leaps in technology that I saw (unless someone will point out the Ursula AA). I was much more impressed by Star Tours, frankly. What were your thoughts about Mermaid?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hey Eddie ... been reading your thread with interest when time allows, but avoiding the back and forth of posting as it has become very unpleasant in the current social media/you must love or hate the Disney BRAND unconditionally atmosphere (not on your thread, or even here on MAGIC, but in general throughout the fan community as people get in on living something called 'The Disney Lifestyle' -- I don't know what it is, but it sounds scary!), so I might have missed these topics.

Word is going around that you may be tied up in Knott's soon. I think that would be a great move as they finally have some strong leadership with a vision at the head of that company.

On another note, recently spent some time at DLR and got to ride Mermaid at DCA for the first time. Don't know if you've covered this, but it felt very cheap to me ... C+ Ticket I guess is how I'd word it. Would have been a great attraction if it were 1995, not 2011. No real leaps in technology that I saw (unless someone will point out the Ursula AA). I was much more impressed by Star Tours, frankly. What were your thoughts about Mermaid?

Well the Knott's idea is wishful thinking at best right now. Because of my history there and Matt Ouimet being the new Cedar Fair CEO, some posters have expressed interest in my being a part of the future of the farm somehow. That would be fun, who knows?

I have not experienced the Mermaid ride yet, but my 12 year old daughter has and she enjoyed it. I think to her it was a D. We all loved Star Tours and that was the bit hit at our house. The parks are so crowded and I'm so busy, I tend to stay away unless business brings me down there.

Good to hear your voice here, it's always welcome!