Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Omnispace]

Since backstories have been discussed here in the past: for those curious to read the official take at the Disney Parks Blog there's a series on Disney Parks Storytelling presented with all the sparkle that blogger Erin Glover can muster. This one is on Condor Flats but at the end of the article there are links to others. Enjoy!!>>>>

Personally, I have some mixed feelings about these because several are certainly fictional and make no sense to the casual observer. But Erin does a pretty good job explaining them, (considering the wide audience she needs to write for), and a few of then have actually caused me to think a bit. In particular, the story about Grizzly Peak reminds me a lot about cultural legends. Icelandic culture is full of crazy stories about trolls being turned into their different mountains. Hawaiians have their deities associated with different aspects of the islands, (wonderfully presented at the Enchanted Tiki Room terrace.) The Grizzly Peak story of course alludes to Native American legends. I only wish there was a show such as Knott's Mystery Lodge to make that connection at DCA, (perhaps they can move it?). The parks are such a great place to tap into these cultural stories and keep them in the forefront, it's a shame they can't be utilized more.

 

[MOXOMUMD]

It's good to see that this is a recognized phenomenon among designers such as yourself.

As an aside: I've been summering in a small town (on the national historic registry) that was comprised, up until the last decade or so, mostly of 1880s-1920s structures - including many seaside "cottages", each being utterly cool and individual - each having a soul. The townscape was magic.

As is often the way of the world, the historic buildings sometimes weren't maintained, the town has no preservation laws (with teeth), and far too many have been razed and replaced over the last 15 years. Depressingly, the pace shows no sign of easing. The town's character is at a tipping point now, where growing number of new "Victorian" replacements are effectively erasing the magic/charm/soul of the townscape.

I'm early in the process of capturing about 25 of the razed Victorians in a series of illustrations, for posterity (all below were knocked down):

This is what I've been trying to get my head around: A lot of money has been put into the new replacement wannabe-Victorian buildings, but they don't have a fraction of the soul and beauty of the real Victorian ones. Why is that? What was so special about the earlier eras that cannot be replicated by most modern architects?

One of my chief conclusions (alongside modern materials, pre-fab, construction techs and other things like AC eliminating the need for sleeping porches) regarding this demise was the advent of CAD. It removes a lot of the humanity from the design process. It makes it easier, so the architect becomes more computer technician than artist. Humans are both symmetrical and asymmetrical. They are organic and buildings designed by actual humans, without the aid of computers, seem to reflect that. And, therefore, they innately, subconciosly appeal to us more. And even with all the ornament of Victorian buildings, a lot of the features and angles selected and tacked on in CAD for looks today, served an actual purpose back then.

This is an interesting image because it shows hand and CAD elevations side by side as it applies to Disney Victorian (Mystic Manor). Also interesting to note that it looks like they used the background of the famous Harper Goff Jungle Cruise illustration:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5507/9499942614_d39f197ae8_o.jpg

A little late here but I wanted to say there are many beautiful Victorian houses in my hometown that have gone for naught. 99% of them have been bought and hacked into many tiny apartments that have renters that just don't care about what they are doing to the property. My parents owned one of the first homes built in our city and I loved it. As we grew up and moved out, our parents downsized. The people who bought our home remodeled it into a top level apartment wih a home health care company on the main floor.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Since backstories have been discussed here in the past: for those curious to read the official take at the Disney Parks Blog there's a series on Disney Parks Storytelling presented with all the sparkle that blogger Erin Glover can muster. This one is on Condor Flats but at the end of the article there are links to others. Enjoy!!>>>>

Personally, I have some mixed feelings about these because several are certainly fictional and make no sense to the casual observer. But Erin does a pretty good job explaining them, (considering the wide audience she needs to write for), and a few of then have actually caused me to think a bit. In particular, the story about Grizzly Peak reminds me a lot about cultural legends. Icelandic culture is full of crazy stories about trolls being turned into their different mountains. Hawaiians have their deities associated with different aspects of the islands, (wonderfully presented at the Enchanted Tiki Room terrace.) The Grizzly Peak story of course alludes to Native American legends. I only wish there was a show such as Knott's Mystery Lodge to make that connection at DCA, (perhaps they can move it?). The parks are such a great place to tap into these cultural stories and keep them in the forefront, it's a shame they can't be utilized more.

There is a Spirit Cave at the Redwood Creek Challenge Trail across the way that dealt with Native American legends. http://allears.net/dlr/tp/dca/redwood.htm

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Talking about alternatives to traditional food operations, I thought this was interesting when I first read about it -- mostly because it is a Syd Mead design. Called FoodParc, it allowed one to order their selections from banks of computers and then pick them up at one of the counters. I'm not sure how well it worked and unfortunately it seems like it is now closed. As for the design, Syd did an amazing job. In realization, it looks like they ran out of their budget on the ceiling treatment. The curved canopies with dramatic lighting turned into translucent screens for fluorescent lights. Still interesting to to consider. No soulless queue's here.

New York seems to be the place for unusual scaled-up dining concepts. I've always wanted to try the Automat.

Poor Syd. I like the wall texture. Yet somehow it does not seem to be about food, but the process of getting it.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

A little late here but I wanted to say there are many beautiful Victorian houses in my hometown that have gone for naught. 99% of them have been bought and hacked into many tiny apartments that have renters that just don't care about what they are doing to the property. My parents owned one of the first homes built in our city and I loved it. As we grew up and moved out, our parents downsized. The people who bought our home remodeled it into a top level apartment wih a home health care company on the main floor.

I was telling a friend that I'd love to buy cheap original homes in say Detroit, and move then to virgin land in LA and do a new/old tract of restored classic craftsman homes, all original or with Victorian.
http://www.experthousemovers.com

 

[Omnispace]

Poor Syd. I like the wall texture. Yet somehow it does not seem to be about food, but the process of getting it.

I'm not sure if it was much more than a unique way of ordering. My impression from the review is that the food offerings were supposed to be a cut above the rest.

The design vs. realized comparison is a pretty good example of how important the viewpoint of the designer/artist is. One needs to really take a look at what makes Syd's rendering so successful in order to interpret it properly. Fortunately, they got a lot of Syd's wall treatments and decorative elements right. I have always been impressed by how he has been able to integrate artistic design into his futuristic visions so that they maintain a humanistic element. For that reason, I think that Syd would be able to pull off a remarkable makeover of Disneyland's Tomorrowland. The Star Wars blast-doors esthetic I have seen produced by Disney is much too heavy-handed. To expand that into the rest of the land would be a mistake.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

One thing about translating Syd's worlds is that he populates them with something cool going on. They are as much about a moment as about a design. They are about the people doing something in his "club" dressed just right to fit the space. I'd like to see a "Dapper Day" gone "Syd Mead" style in what's left of the 1967 Tomorrowland, maybe at Coke Terrace. His reflective "mood lighting" lighting is incredible as well. He's not always lighting his machines as he lights the entire scene. They serve the mood. You realize this when you see the reflections and accents he paints close up. I'm not sure that the reality can live up to the "magic" he puts out there, much like Ryman's paintings.

 

[Figments Friend]

Syd*s work is mindblowing.
I have been a fan of his since i saw the work he did in the original *TRON*.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I've been playing around with the new iOS7 in all of it's flatness and it got me to thinking about why I miss the warmth of Apple's previous efforts. Why? I think 7 is extremely sleek and clean, very (Microsoft Windows 8) but a bit cold and lacking soul. Functional as a Swiss Train Station, yet austere and without much inspiration. We have discussed Skeuomorphism here in the past and I've come down on liking it up to the point of it getting in the way of the function. So you have my bias. As Imagineers, we are guilty of "Skeu"-ing things to meet the audience.

Part of Disney's magic is "Nostalgia". Things we had a fondness for that may be scarce in today's world. We then took those things and made them better than they ever were (like Main Street) and then making the impossible...possible (Mr. Lincoln is there for us to see). Apple took cold mimimal hardware and embedded it with things we are familiar with like a pictorial analog "" or a chrome sliding switch and then made them do things buttons and switches could not. They "melted" into a dock or magically burst off the screen or swiped into an image, etc. I was reading Marty's Book and he mentioned Walt's description of WDW to the State of Florida where he thought you could stay one night in "yesterday" and the next in "tomorrow". Apple's entry point that made things intuitive is that you met the technology in "yesterday" (Garage Band Audio board) graphically and then it took you to tomorrow (what it does better with less).

When I look back at the Bauhaus movement or other great art and design case studies, you never imagine the average person enjoying or seeking to live in those minimal even brutal environments. Fascism is associated with some of that as it is so dictatorial. Disney has always been chided as being too literal and corny, but most loved by average people. Frank Lloyd Wright or Greene and Greene homes are beautiful, but hard to live in as they are so prescribed. They are self absorbed. Spaces that are lived in, end up with "layers" as life has layers. We sense and feel secure with layers. Nature is not graphically "flat", it's rich, dimensional, has warmth as it is timeless. Detail is something appreciated by all of us. It is a reward for us leaning in to appreciate it. From afar, a leaf is a flat graphic shape, yet closer up it has veins and a translucent skin. It adds value in the closeup. Detail in nature can be mistaken for ornament, but always has a greater purpose. So does Main Street. Walt's greatest skill was knowing what moved people but still moving them forward. My take on iOS7 is that we somehow moved sideways.

 

[choco choco]

When I look back at the Bauhaus movement or other great art and design case studies, you never imagine the average person enjoying or seeking to live in those minimal even brutal environments. Fascism is associated with some of that as it is so dictatorial. Disney has always been chided as being too literal and corny, but most loved by average people. Frank Lloyd Wright or Greene and Greene homes are beautiful, but hard to live in as they are so prescribed. They are self absorbed. Spaces that are lived in, end up with "layers" as life has layers. We sense and feel secure with layers. Nature has tons of detail and is the most preferred environment. It is not "flat", it's rich, dimensional and has warmth as it is timeless. Walt's greatest skill was knowing what moved people but still moving them forward. My take on iOS7 is that we somehow moved sideways.

I'm gonna tie this back to the Syd Mead/Tomorrowland stuff. Every concept I've seen of Tomorrowland is some hyper-techno vision, with all metallic or plastic surfaces and blaring electronic overload. Stuff that's Times Square wannabe.

But really that perhaps isn't the vision of the future that should be promoted...it certainly isn't very optimistic. Who wants to live in Times Square? The future should have humans more in tune with nature. I always felt a good Tomorrowland scheme should plant more trees. Syd Mead's stuff is pretty. But give me Naohisa Inoue's future any day.

As for the coldness of modern architecture, no film addressed this theme better than Playtime, Jacques Tati's legendary skewering of modernism. I highly recommend it.

 

[Omnispace]

One thing about translating Syd's worlds is that he populates them with something cool going on. They are as much about a moment as about a design. They are about the people doing something in his "club" dressed just right to fit the space. I'd like to see a "Dapper Day" gone "Syd Mead" style in what's left of the 1967 Tomorrowland, maybe at Coke Terrace. His reflective "mood lighting" lighting is incredible as well. He's not always lighting his machines as he lights the entire scene. They serve the mood. You realize this when you see the reflections and accents he paints close up. I'm not sure that the reality can live up to the "magic" he puts out there, much like Ryman's paintings.

I know what you mean and I love your past references to Syd's "cocktail party" renderings. Perhaps populating a revitalized '67 Tomorrowland with CM's in Syd-designed costumes would help to pull it off. You are right that it would be difficult to capture the quality of space conveyed in his paintings but they contain so much weird and interesting stuff, it would be an incredible and fun place if realized properly. Adventure Thru Inner Space certainly had that weirdness, and the Space Mountain remake is a good example of taking the best parts of what's there and making it fresh and interesting. That's why I hate the thought of having to create something from a movie property. It limits the aesthetic.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I'm gonna tie this back to the Syd Mead/Tomorrowland stuff. Every concept I've seen of Tomorrowland is some hyper-techno vision, with all metallic or plastic surfaces and blaring electronic overload. Stuff that's Times Square wannabe.

But really that perhaps isn't the vision of the future that should be promoted...it certainly isn't very optimistic. Who wants to live in Times Square? The future should have humans more in tune with nature. I always felt a good Tomorrowland scheme should plant more trees. Syd Mead's stuff is pretty. But give me Naohisa Inoue's future any day.

As for the coldness of modern architecture, no film addressed this theme better than Playtime, Jacques Tati's legendary skewering of modernism. I highly recommend it.

Playtime is very good. "Skewer" is a good description too. I love that film, his use of sound, especially the hip Restaurant opening. I relate to that. His other work, "Mon Oncle" also shows the futility of the modern high tech home, and how it forces you into it's own "lifestyle" by all of the technology not really working.






You end up conforming to it's rigid design. Kind of what I tried to say about homes that are totally designed, they don't allow you to live in them unless you want to be displayed. Architectural magazines seldom show people in the images, as they ruin the real focus, the architecture.

 

[Omnispace]

Steve Jobs was all about technology conforming to the user -- it's the moment when you can intuitively access your contact list that you reach that state of "zen" with your phone.

 

[Omnispace]

I'm gonna tie this back to the Syd Mead/Tomorrowland stuff. Every concept I've seen of Tomorrowland is some hyper-techno vision, with all metallic or plastic surfaces and blaring electronic overload. Stuff that's Times Square wannabe.

But really that perhaps isn't the vision of the future that should be promoted...it certainly isn't very optimistic. Who wants to live in Times Square? The future should have humans more in tune with nature. I always felt a good Tomorrowland scheme should plant more trees. Syd Mead's stuff is pretty. But give me Naohisa Inoue's future any day.

As for the coldness of modern architecture, no film addressed this theme better than Playtime, Jacques Tati's legendary skewering of modernism. I highly recommend it.

I agree about the hyper-techno over-stimulating visions for Tomorrowland coming to the forefront. I believe the attempt is to create a sense of "excitement" through neon tubing and loud detailing. Obviously, the world of the future is going to be as multi-faceted as it is today with urban, rural, and wilderness all in the mix. But in general, it is the tools of our technology that has come to define our placement in time -- whether it is a bronze-age axe, a GPS device, or even the type of clothes we wear. Pushing those visual cues of technology further along is part of what helps to establish a sense of future, in my opinion. But you are correct that it needs to find the proper balance.

Thanks for sharing Naoshia Inoue's work. I'm posting an example here for everyone's benefit -- very dream-like and certainly a very personal vision of a more synergistic future. There's nothing to say that something similar to this won't come into being and it definitely makes a poetic case for an alternative course to take.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I agree about the hyper-techno over-stimulating visions for Tomorrowland coming to the forefront. I believe the attempt is to create a sense of "excitement" through neon tubing and loud detailing. Obviously, the world of the future is going to be as multi-faceted as it is today with urban, rural, and wilderness all in the mix. But in general, it is the tools of our technology that has come to define our placement in time -- whether it is a bronze-age axe, a GPS device, or even the type of clothes we wear. Pushing those visual cues of technology further along is part of what helps to establish a sense of future, in my opinion. But you are correct that it needs to find the proper balance.

Thanks for sharing Naoshia Inoue's work. I'm posting an example here for everyone's benefit -- very dream-like and certainly a very personal vision of a more synergistic future. There's nothing to say that something similar to this won't come into being and it definitely makes a poetic case for an alternative course to take.

This reminds me of futurist Bob Mc Call. He did some great inspirational EPCOT and NASA design. This is paradisiac with futurism on the horizon. I think this mega piece was in the attraction.

Personal favorite of his....probably Kubrick's too.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Some interesting "tidbits" about the upcoming "Star Wars" addition to Tomorrowland at Disneyland here.
http://micechat.com/44830-disneyland-das/

 

[Californian Elitist]

Some interesting "tidbits" about the upcoming "Star Wars" addition to Tomorrowland at Disneyland here.
http://micechat.com/44830-disneyland-das/

Boo. I don't like the sound of this at all, especially the removal of Autopia part.

 

[trs518]

This reminds me of futurist Bob Mc Call. He did some great inspirational EPCOT and NASA design. This is paradisiac with futurism on the horizon. I think this mega piece was in the attraction.

The first thing that I noticed in this picture, is the amount of green space. It's probably used as a reference point for the size of the buildings, but it's there anyways. In Tomorrowland in the Magic Kingdom, there isn't any green space. They have artificial trees. That's always bothered me.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The first thing that I noticed in this picture, is the amount of green space. It's probably used as a reference point for the size of the buildings, but it's there anyways. In Tomorrowland in the Magic Kingdom, there isn't any green space. They have artificial trees. That's always bothered me.

Well you could say that the land was flanked by green lawns and flowers from the hub with a bridge over water, no? So your view was over a green zone to enter. Is what lies ahead an improvement?

 

[Omnispace]

The first thing that I noticed in this picture, is the amount of green space. It's probably used as a reference point for the size of the buildings, but it's there anyways. In Tomorrowland in the Magic Kingdom, there isn't any green space. They have artificial trees. That's always bothered me.

I think the intent has always been to create more of an urban feel to the main portion of Tomorrowland. The original Tomorrowland used to have a bit more landscaping but for some reason once you put space rocks around that seems to be thematically incompatible with trees. Everyone knows that retro spaceports don't have trees.

Btw, I always thought that WDW's Tomorrowland had an unusual configuration on the backside of the central plaza. There just seems to be this awkward, poorly-utilized space back there that the Peoplemover track cuts off. The placement of the Skyway station didn't help maters much. I suspect that it has to do with the developing plans for Space Mountain -- that it was originally intended to go in that location but the expanding scope and size of the building made more sense to put it outside the railroad tracks. I'm sure that others might have a lot better insight on this matter.