Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

Awesome, looks like Carsland will have great family appeal. They spared no expense to re-create Radiator Springs, even sending Imagineers down Route 66 though much of the area is taken from the film.

There's a rumor that Tony Baxter will be heading a major expansion in Disneyland, maybe in Frontierland and maybe based on the Lone Ranger, possibly a Western River Expedition ride, to expand guest capacity as DLR is sure getting more business with Carsland.

It is interesting to note that here we are in the middle of a marketing blitz and on a Saturday, the wait for California Screamin' was only about 10 minutes at 3 in the afternoon. Midway Mania was 30. Single rider for Cars was averaging 30 to 40 with standby at 120. Given what I've seen in the past with mobbed opening, this was not that bad. Those are the tentpole shows and there are not that many in DCA. The parks did not feel too cramped either. BV Street and Carsland both look great at night. Guests seemed to be loving it all.

Tom Morris, who was the design lead on that project, told me about his trip with John Lassiter and others down Route 66, where they ate the food, photographed the surroundings and visited the people. How fun and interesting that must have been. I could see things he mentioned back then, like the house made from bottles in the queue. They should do a slide show of things and saw and how they integrated them into the area. I did not go into the "Blue Sky Cellar", but it has been updated to include lots of backstory on the land and probably some of that research is there too. The Carsland merchandise is fun as well. They have lots fun things like tire shaped hats that seemed to be selling.

Note: Avoid the Chicken Verde Cone as my daughter got sick on it in line and we had to give up our spot after investing an hour. The CM escorting us out agreed as he got sick on it as well. Then a friend texted me an hour later telling me to avoid it! Tasted good, but it's an "eat now pay later" risk. The chili one was fine.

BV Street really set the right quality tone for the park as a whole. First impressions are powerful as you really enter in a good mood. Good area music. Very much like Disney MGM. You say to yourself that you are in a Disney park, and that's a good thing. It is good enough to erase the immediate impulse to compare with DL across the way. You feel you are on common if not more compelling ground initially. Red Car looks adorable and adds kinetics. The interiors are hit and miss as some of them are inspired by the old LA Deco department stores and are minimally streamlined (Bullock's Wilshire), but the product just does not work with it. Others are a bit more successful. Graphics are very good overall. I think the stores kind of suffer more than the restaurants by obeying a retail design formula or template and it makes them uninteresting overall. We bought nothing. The Carthay Tower makes an elegant Icon, I don't get the fountain. Good idea, but seems like a missed opportunity.

Lots of entertainment and streetmosphere make all the difference. Both parks had stuff going on all over the place. Love that. Goofy conducts the DCA WOC fountains set to the music of Spike Jones (Dance of the Hours) and did a terrific job.

"Goofy's Fly School" took me back to the old Soap Box Racer days at Knott's where you basically use dark ride sets outdoors. They did a fun job of it and the ride itself is good enough to please anyway.

The kids kept wanting to go back to Carsland, if nothing else, just to explore it. We'd just read the plaques and decode the buttes, etc. Carsland as a space was big, immersive and overwhelming and it was nice to see Disney push themselves. The Tomorrowland of the 90's was a big move but not big or immersive enough. It wimped out on what could have been same as the original DCA. Carsland didn't seem to. True, the lesser C rides are weak, but overall you just want to be in it and want to just stare at it. My bet is that John will not let Luigi's be boring forever and they will make some changes when it is practical to do so. Beach Balls are not the answer and the land is too valuable. Having said that, it was the first time in a long time you just look at those rocks and say, "wow" this land is incredible. Guests were all standing taking pictures just like they do at the Grand Canyon. Welcome back to doing the impossible.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Disneyland has a great Fantasyland as you've got a lot of neat little dark rides and other attractions in a cozy setting, Magic Kingdom is more sprawling, and while I like some of the FLE, such as the BOG restaurant, MK still lacks the intimacy and "magic" of Disneyland's Fantasyland.

Ariel's facade, which is really just rock-work around a big box, is kinda too imposing and "showy" for me. I think they should have hidden the show building behind a berm, and gone with a more humble entrance, such as utilizing Prince Eric's ship for the facade.

Sometimes lowering or managing expectations is a good thing. TDL Pooh was deliberate in that way and it worked. Keeping the facade more subtle and quiet just lets the ride speak louder when you're on it. Pirates is actually in an unassuming facade and you real have no idea that it will ever open up into what it does. If you put a Wal-Mart sized building with a massive marquee out there, then the guest will naturally keep expecting the show to get bigger and bigger. Matterhorn, Space Mountain and the other "Mountains" can live up to their stature but in reality you never get to the top, but you think you did! Good things come in small packages.

 

[flynnibus]

Eddie, the imagineers gave an indepth talk and presentation on their route 66 research during a d23 expo presentation. Should be able to watch on youtube

 

[Alektronic]

Or simply it was the last flat blacklight ride that isn't nearly as popular as other attractions. Think about it.. MK has now purged all the original FL style dark rides except for Peter Pan. Pooh is a lot more advanced than the old style rides.

Yet DL still manages with 5! such styled rides. Peter Pan, Alice, Snow White, Pinocchio, and Toad

Because they moving the flat blacklight rides to Epcot, that is what Test Track will be like, a ton of blacklights with some neon and fiber optics.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Because they moving the flat blacklight rides to Epcot, that is what Test Track will be like, a ton of blacklights with some neon and fiber optics.

We went on Toad yesterday and they are still fun rides and have their place. EPCOT is less stylized so you probably expect more realism and to entertain a bit of a more sophisticated audience. Black light is just a tool like a type of paint brush and can be used many ways. It's all in how you apply it.

 

[Alektronic]

We went on Toad yesterday and they are still fun rides and have their place. EPCOT is less stylized so you probably expect more realism and to entertain a bit of a more sophisticated audience. Black light is just a tool like a type of paint brush and can be used many ways. It's all in how you apply it.

Yes. I agree. I like most blacklight rides, but I heard Test Track is going to rely heavily on it, I just hope they will be able to maintain it.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Yes. I agree. I like most blacklight rides, but I heard Test Track is going to rely heavily on it, I just hope they will be able to maintain it.

The queue in the old "Rocket Rods" Attraction at DL used black light to create a "Tron" inspired vector graphic world set on a black background. It would not be surprising to see Test Track do something along those lines.

 

[Alektronic]

The queue in the old "Rocket Rods" Attraction at DL used black light to create a "Tron" inspired vector graphic world set on a black background. It would not be surprising to see Test Track do something along those lines.

I hope they do some amazing things with the lighting in there, because the right lighting can set up a mood or even change your mood with the right lighting. Speaking of lighting, did you see Carsland at night? How did the rockwork and Monument Valley look during night time?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I hope they do some amazing things with the lighting in there, because the right lighting can set up a mood or even change your mood with the right lighting. Speaking of lighting, did you see Carsland at night? How did the rockwork and Monument Valley look during night time?

It looked great. The saturated neon signs of the town (maybe too much green from Flo's?) and the amber on the rocks was really pretty in context. A spectacular backdrop. Daytime is the most realistic, but night is very magical. BV Street looked pretty too.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, the imagineers gave an indepth talk and presentation on their route 66 research during a d23 expo presentation. Should be able to watch on youtube

Speaking of D23....I will be on a panel with Tony at a D23 Event this August at the DL Hotel. Here's more about it.

http://wdccduckman.blogspot.com/2012/06/news-from-d23-destination-d-details.html

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

It looked great. The saturated neon signs of the town (maybe too much green from Flo's?) and the amber on the rocks was really pretty in context. A spectacular backdrop. Daytime is the most realistic, but night is very magical. BV Street looked pretty too.

Yeah, I was surprised with the photos that showed how greenish-blue Flo's was, as opposed to the aquamarine-teal paint used in some incarnations of Mel's Drive-In (Universal Orlando.) Carsland Flo's neon looks a shade tade greener than virtual Flo's in the Cars film. I wonder if some of the green neon from Ramone's is causing this? Overall looks pretty fabulous.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

It is interesting to note that here we are in the middle of a marketing blitz and on a Saturday, the wait for California Screamin' was only about 10 minutes at 3 in the afternoon.

I figure that guests will make Carsland a must see, and then a good chunk will matriculate back to Disneyland.

The BVS fountain looks a little cluttered, like it was built with a reclaimed art-deco light fixture and other leftover material. It’s not that bad, but more like something you’d see added on a hotel as an afterthought.

I think the completion of the inside of the BVS shops was really rushed to get it finished. I can appreciate the “clean” look of art deco/mission style, but also miss some of the details of Main Street. The inside of the stores looks boring as they don’t have much 1930’s antiques/curiosity pieces, they may add more later. I also agree that the merchandise in some of the stores doesn't look like it belongs there.

I would have thought that BVS, while pretty during the day, would need some upgrades as far as night time looks. Main Street has the popcorn lights, gas lights, the bluish castle off in the distance, and twinkle lights in the hub. From what I can tell, BVS has standard landscape lighting for the trees, maybe some neon here and there. I haven’t seen it in person though.

Sorry your daughter got sick on the chicken verde cone! I seriously wonder if it was food poisoning if a lot of others experienced this, kinda scary.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I figure that guests will make Carsland a must see, and then a good chunk will matriculate back to Disneyland.

Sorry your daughter got sick on the chicken verde cone! I seriously wonder if it was food poisoning if a lot of others experienced this, kinda scary.

She was fine by morning thanks. I"m sure that the crowds head back over to DL later in the day as you have the fireworks or Fantasmic!. There is a lot going on at night as you also have the "Mad T Party" rave over at DCA. The wildest thing I encountered was this "Dancing with Disney" stunt in the old Millionaire soundstage. It was full of people just dancing with characters in the middle of the afternoon to a DJ. Wow! Cheap and successful. Guests were digging getting to go dancing with a Disney Character.

The BVS lighting feels a bit typical as we already have the Main Street-ish "Grove" Shopping Center in LA, but BVS is still pretty and embraces the Hollywood Blvd really well, giving it a new sense of life. There are even resident sound effects in the upstairs windows as was done on Main Street. Lots of small touches. Now TOT is tied into the park in a way that makes sense. I like that style of architecture and while I could knit pick it, it was really a great overall upgrade to the park.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Yeah, I was surprised with the photos that showed how greenish-blue Flo's was, as opposed to the aquamarine-teal paint used in some incarnations of Mel's Drive-In (Universal Orlando.) Carsland Flo's neon looks a shade tade greener than virtual Flo's in the Cars film. I wonder if some of the green neon from Ramone's is causing this? Overall looks pretty fabulous.

Greenish neon make people and food look cold and anemic, so that was my only reason for saying that.

 

[The_Mesh_Hatter]

I've really been enjoying reading this thread. Thanks for responding, it's been an interesting insight.

Did you ride the Matterhorn? I rode it with my family, and we all simultaneously wondered where the legroom went when getting into the sled. It's really unfortunate, the ride was quite uncomfortable. Other than that though, it looked great. Still my favorite "mountain" in the park. It's just one of those rides where the layout always surprises.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

We all rode the Matterhorn. A favorite for all of us. The exterior stone of the brooding Mountain looked grayer and darker as there is a lot less snow on it. Climate change? I'm not sure. Liked more snow better, but that's personal thing. 3 to a car is a coup for the new single rider line! The Snowman seemed louder.

I'm 5' 11" so the seats were not too bad for a legroom point of view, although I saw it being an issue for others. In the past, a heavier person could use the entire toboggan area and now it is prescribed, like a economy plane seat with no room to adjust. When you are scrunched in knees up, it seemed to change your posture or position in the hard seat to be more erect. The ride itself became uncomfortable from that aspect and my tailbone felt every bump due to little or no padding. I found myself raising my body off the seat to avoid the constant feedback. The ride was always jerky, but now lost the precarious sensation of sloshing around in the open Bobsled. Before you used your side grips to stabilize yourself and lean and I did not sense having to do any of that, just sit there. To me, that thrill was kind of gone as you are perfectly packed in. We rode the right side of the mountain so you have lots of runs with less surprises.

 

[The_Mesh_Hatter]

I agree, sitting in the front seat of the old trains really did feel like being in a toboggan. I sat in the back seat since I used the single rider line (very appreciated!), but I still would guess that sensation is gone.

I was surprised with regards to the lack of the room. I'm rather 5'10" and very skinny, but I still had a difficult time. It wasn't so much the lack of room, as the awkward position. The Fantasyland side feels more like the wharf scene in Mr. Toad than an actual roller coaster.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Oh great. Matterhorn is my favorite ride and I really hope I'm not going to have trouble being comfortable in the new bobsleds. That would really suck.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

We all rode the Matterhorn. A favorite for all of us. The exterior stone of the brooding Mountain looked grayer and darker as there is a lot less snow on it. Climate change? I'm not sure. Liked more snow better, but that's personal thing. 3 to a car is a coup for the new single rider line! The Snowman seemed louder.

I'm 5' 11" so the seats were not too bad for a legroom point of view, although I saw it being an issue for others. In the past, a heavier person could use the entire toboggan area and now it is prescribed, like a economy plane seat with no room to adjust. When you are scrunched in knees up, it seemed to change your posture or position in the hard seat to be more erect. The ride itself became uncomfortable from that aspect and my tailbone felt every bump due to little or no padding. I found myself raising my body off the seat to avoid the constant feedback. The ride was always jerky, but now lost the precarious sensation of sloshing around in the open Bobsled. Before you used your side grips to stabilize yourself and lean and I did not sense having to do any of that, just sit there. To me, that thrill was kind of gone as you are perfectly packed in. We rode the right side of the mountain so you have lots of runs with less surprises.

I thought the point of the Bobsleds was to make you feel like you were in a bobsled, if it is just another roller coaster car then it changes the feel of the ride. You really used to feel like you were "precariously" hanging on for dear life!

All of these changes aside, it doesn't make sense that they didn't add any padding to the seats!

Given how some guests may have real injuries from the ride, such as lower back injuries which can be notoriously hard to treat, I think they'll have to close the ride to add padding. They might consider adding an old-style bobsled to the train to fit heavier guests, but ideally it needs to be redesigned.

Disney hired an outside firm to work on the new bobsleds, the early models they were testing looked a little different from what was used, almost like they were sort of experimenting with a totally new design, rather than keeping what worked and modifying it slightly.

Why the change? Ride capacity?

Is this is what its come to? Painfully squeezing guests into a ride train to increase the ride capacity so they can take out a ride like the Subs and save some on maintenance?

I'm shocked that they probably tested these vehicles, knew they would be painful for some guests, and some how OK'd it!

Unbelieveable.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I agree, sitting in the front seat of the old trains really did feel like being in a toboggan. I sat in the back seat since I used the single rider line (very appreciated!), but I still would guess that sensation is gone.

I was surprised with regards to the lack of the room. I'm rather 5'10" and very skinny, but I still had a difficult time. It wasn't so much the lack of room, as the awkward position. The Fantasyland side feels more like the wharf scene in Mr. Toad than an actual roller coaster.

I'm not sure it was for capacity, as with 3 per car they lost one rider (used to be 2+2), as odd numbers create inefficiencies, hence the single rider fix. Maybe that works better? I'd guess it was for legal reasons of restraint or whiplash or something like that.

My sense is that the ride experience has hit rock bottom and needs to be rethought to a degree. You may think that is an extreme comment but go back and look at the original intent with a single vehicle. It seems to have all been in-perceptively tamed over the years. The two sled system was the first big difference. My childhood memories of the single vehicle were quite different than the "push and pull" of the two car trains. I recall riding them when they were introduced.

Since the seats are what they are, save for some padding tweaks, I think there may be some room to develop a ride vehicle chassis that has a softer, more side to side give in it to create a fishtailing type slide that a toboggan would have in a trench. Call Bob Gurr. That would make each car feel more loose and like it's more precarious. The feedback from the track is too direct right now. Even the ability to have them shock mounted to have a feel for leaning into the turns more like the old sleds. The lawyers and operations criteria have finally made it a bit of a dud from what it once was. Let's get that lake really full and push the splashdown more too. Add a live (Swiss) Bernese Mountain Dog as a Mascot! I even miss the yodeling.

(Images from Daveland)