Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[COProgressFan]

What's next? I won't be surprised when they "shrink-wrap" the massive glass windows of the Contemporary, like they do giant billboards here on the Sunset Strip. Or adding text signage to the Monorail beamways. ("follow me to the wine and food event").

I think what has happened is that the Monorails have set a precident as "advertising space" for the divisions to fight over so they will always have something on them. The horse is out of the monorail barn.

Or, I hope, until an intelligent exec comes along and puts a stop to the practice. (Perhaps not likely)

 

[lazyboy97o]

Looking at an earlier update, I think I am even more put off by the bit of red stripe showing. If you are going to ruin the monorails, at least do it well.

 

[AEfx]

I actually think it's the best looking wrap they have done.

The gun thing is a non-issue for me. As Eddie pointed out, there is so much gun play at WDW already, personally it seems a bit hypocritical to say that gun is not OK, but the guns throughout POTC, or the ones you operate yourself on Buzz Lightyear, shooting gallery, or any of the other many representations of guns throughout the parks, are OK. A gun is a gun, "vintage" or new.

I'm not any particular fan of guns, don't get me wrong. But I'd be much, much more worried about the gun laws and general climate (especially in Florida in particular) with REAL guns than I would be a graphic on a poster.

As to the aesthetics of wrapping in general, I kind of agree. I can see both sides. I believe they only wrap one at a time, so it's not like it's the whole fleet. And let's face it, as much as I/we love 'em, they do scream 1960's.

I think the reason I like this one overall in particular is the dark colors. I wish they'd really paint the heck out of them - the pale color stripe on white we have feels so dated and tacky. I'd love them fully painted in vibrant, slick, solid colors - red, blue, black.

Of course, the eternal optimist in me says, "Hey, maybe if they get enough response to advertising some other Disney department will help pick up the cost of more monorail fun", while the pessimist/conspiracy lover in me wants to think it's Disney taking a dig at Universal by using Marvel in the resort in any way they can.

In truth, I'm sure it's much more simple than that...but I have to say, when I first saw this wrap I was much more impressed than any I had seen before. And I don't even particularly care for the Avengers or Marvel (I'll probably see it on Blu-ray, I have Captain America but I haven't even watched it yet).

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Of course, the eternal optimist in me says, "Hey, maybe if they get enough response to advertising some other Disney department will help pick up the cost of more monorail fun", while the pessimist/conspiracy lover in me wants to think it's Disney taking a dig at Universal by using Marvel in the resort in any way they can.

The optimist in me thinks Disney is trying to be a thorn in Universal's side; at least it would mean they care. For all of the bad about you-know-who, we would have had a response to Disney getting upstaged like they did with WWoHP. That moxie has been absent from the company. :shrug:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I actually think it's the best looking wrap they have done.

The gun thing is a non-issue for me. As Eddie pointed out, there is so much gun play at WDW already, personally it seems a bit hypocritical to say that gun is not OK, but the guns throughout POTC, or the ones you operate yourself on Buzz Lightyear, shooting gallery, or any of the other many representations of guns throughout the parks, are OK. A gun is a gun, "vintage" or new.

I'm not any particular fan of guns, don't get me wrong. But I'd be much, much more worried about the gun laws and general climate (especially in Florida in particular) with REAL guns than I would be a graphic on a poster.

As to the aesthetics of wrapping in general, I kind of agree. I can see both sides. I believe they only wrap one at a time, so it's not like it's the whole fleet. And let's face it, as much as I/we love 'em, they do scream 1960's.

I think the reason I like this one overall in particular is the dark colors. I wish they'd really paint the heck out of them - the pale color stripe on white we have feels so dated and tacky. I'd love them fully painted in vibrant, slick, solid colors - red, blue, black.

Of course, the eternal optimist in me says, "Hey, maybe if they get enough response to advertising some other Disney department will help pick up the cost of more monorail fun", while the pessimist/conspiracy lover in me wants to think it's Disney taking a dig at Universal by using Marvel in the resort in any way they can.

In truth, I'm sure it's much more simple than that...but I have to say, when I first saw this wrap I was much more impressed than any I had seen before. And I don't even particularly care for the Avengers or Marvel (I'll probably see it on Blu-ray, I have Captain America but I haven't even watched it yet).

Good counterpoint. Marvel does represent a beachhead agains Universal, although they have the best Spiderman ride already.

 

[John]

Put me down in the "dont like it" column. For me it is all about the context the so called "gun play" is portrayed. It is not only the gun on the wrap for me it is just to large...nothing subtle about it. A very "in your face" Maybe that is the intent. The reason Mr Sotto mentions it is because it is so large. If it was just a typical Lobby poster no one would enem mention it. But because iot is on the beloved monorail it becomes and issue. I guess the fact that we are even talking about it, the ad accomplishes it's purpose.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Put me down in the "dont like it" column. For me it is all about the context the so called "gun play" is portrayed. It is not only the gun on the wrap for me it is just to large...nothing subtle about it. A very "in your face" Maybe that is the intent. The reason Mr Sotto mentions it is because it is so large. If it was just a typical Lobby poster no one would enem mention it. But because iot is on the beloved monorail it becomes and issue. I guess the fact that we are even talking about it, the ad accomplishes it's purpose.

True enough! I wonder if seeing all these Marvel characters just reminds guests where they really live, at Universal! The kid sees them on the monorail and goes "Hey Dad, let's go on Spiderman and Hulk rides like last time, which park is that in?" Uh.....

I do like hearing the thought process going through all the comments for and against.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Okay, so I pay huge money with airlines, hotels, and tickets, and then they might use the monorail for more advertising. Hello, I'm already here. I no longer attend professional football, baseball, or basketball games because I just paid big money to be there, and I don't want my captivity used to have ads thrown at me between each play.

I'm serious. If Disney World starts inundating me with advertising once I'm already there, I may stop going. Call me fanatical, but drowning me in advertising where I already dumped huge money is just wrong. What's next, Disney telemarketers interrupting me in my room at the Beach Club or Bay Lake Tower? I know that a few small ads already appear on the buses, and I'm okay with that because they're not obtrusive and in your face. But I consider the monorail an attraction. I wouldn't expect to see an ad for Pecos Bill's in the line for Splash Mountain, or an ad for the Electric Umbrella while on Mission Space.

Don't pollute the experience with unbridled attempts to suck more money out of me. I guarantee that our trips will be shorter and less frequent. The new TTA narration, the unmitigated atrocity that pollutes Tomorrowland, is little more than a plug for the giftshops. In response, I absolutely forbid my family to buy souvenirs in Magic Kingdom. Feel free to call me a lunatic, but I'm also spending in excess of $10,000 per year at the parks, DVC, and/or cruises. Become too commercial, and many people like me will go somewhere else. Seriously.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Okay, so I pay huge money with airlines, hotels, and tickets, and then they might use the monorail for more advertising. Hello, I'm already here. I no longer attend professional football, baseball, or basketball games because I just paid big money to be there, and I don't want my captivity used to have ads thrown at me between each play.

I'm serious. If Disney World starts inundating me with advertising once I'm already there, I may stop going. Call me fanatical, but drowning me in advertising where I already dumped huge money is just wrong. What's next, Disney telemarketers interrupting me in my room at the Beach Club or Bay Lake Tower? I know that a few small ads already appear on the buses, and I'm okay with that because they're not obtrusive and in your face. But I consider the monorail an attraction. I wouldn't expect to see an ad for Pecos Bill's in the line for Splash Mountain, or an ad for the Electric Umbrella while on Mission Space.

Don't pollute the experience with unbridled attempts to suck more money out of me. I guarantee that our trips will be shorter and less frequent. The new TTA narration, the unmitigated atrocity that pollutes Tomorrowland, is little more than a plug for the giftshops. In response, I absolutely forbid my family to buy souvenirs in Magic Kingdom. Feel free to call me a lunatic, but I'm also spending in excess of $10,000 per year at the parks, DVC, and/or cruises. Become too commercial, and many people like me will go somewhere else. Seriously.

Walt in his day literally advertised the attractions across lands. The attraction posters we all love are just ads. Post shows did the same thing. So are the small ads on the Omnibuses. It can be done well and even enhance the experience. When we are bringing in the outside world and trying to push that in a way that is either obvious or discordant, then you are eroding the core experience as you point out.

"Over merchandising" is a fine line that usually gets crossed, not by one offense, but by the cumulative effect of many small ones from many sources.

No one sets out to do this, it just happens as a slow "death but 1000 cuts". This is difficult for Disney to wrangle as there are many self centered divisions all out for the attention of the guest. The parks are their first stop for "synergistic" advertising. Do DVC booths really support the 19th century theme? I'd make a huge deal about being tele marketed by Disney on my vacation! WOW! In addition to the Disney divisions, there are the participants (attraction sponsors) who want something more for their money beyond the small signs at the Attraction entrance. Coke for example, and other food sponsors want more of their goods sold, so you see "real world" plastic bottles of Coke sold from Carts, Backpacks, etc vs. in a Disney cup. (This invites price comparison to the local market. Worse yet.) Each land gets appropriate "soft sell" ID advertising masquerading as "show". (You may find signs explaining to you the step by step process of how to wash your hands, courtesy Brawy towels.) http://www.flickr.com/photos/23032267@N00/2604923596/

It all adds up and the SVP Imagineer in charge of the park is the one who is tasked with trying to rein it all in but has little control. Why? Deals are made by other divisions and then you have to live with some of the fallout. Your choice is not so much if it's there (although you can lobby), it's more about how you're gonna theme it.

In the 90's I was that person in Tokyo and for a time Disneyland under Tony. You try to get ahead of those deals by partnering with the participant affairs division, and when you are involved in the early stages you tend to have a better shot at keeping the blatant stuff out of the parks. It can work well if you are part of the solution and work within the system, versus reacting to the problems. Other times, you hear from the studio after the fact that some big promotion is going and you need to support it. McDonald's Fry wagons, stuff like that. The monorail ad for the Avenger's movie release smells like that synergy stuff. Many guests will love it and take pictures of it I'm sure.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Just to set the record straight, we loved the Tron monorail. My son loved the movie, and it fit with the Future World theme in our minds, as well as the transportation methods that were used or implied in the movie. The problem with riding on the Tron monorail was that we had a hard time seeing out the windows brecause they were mostly covered up.

Thanks again, Eddie, for your analysis. I don't mind the occasional Coke label, especially when they are themed like in the Hurambia Village (I think) with old-fashioned rusty signage. But I do have some minor irritation on Magic Express, when it gives the DVC spiel. Nevertheless, it all pales to the annoyance of the TTA narration in large part because something fun and cool was replaced by these uninspired gift shop plugs by Mr. Wimpy Voice. But that's just my pet peeve.

 

[gmajew]

The world has changed. True. I think they DO think they are entitled to everything because they believe they have already paid for it via huge admissions and packages. Morals have gone by the wayside for many, true as well, but when you feel gouged you want just as much value. When you perceived you are getting charged a lot for everyday things you tend to think in a predatory way.

The Eisner Era was about raising all the prices in increments till they hit "price resistance" from the public. At that point, people are not happy and staying away. So you are charging what the traffic will bear, so people see the parks as a "getting your money's worth" proposition with all the unlimited passports and so forth. A "Get it all it in because the meter is running" mentality.

I agree that people feel they are entitled to things because of the high prices etc but that does not give them an excuse for bad behavior. Like all the spit balls you find throughout the rides. Or the littering... That is not because of the prices they pay it is because people no longer have any morals and do not know how to get their kids to behave.

My trip at the end of March I was disgusted by the way people acted. It is a said display of the way we act as a group these days.

 

[Bork Bork]

Forgive me if it's in either of these wonderfully cavernous threads, but I didn't know Eddie had his name on a Main Street window at DLP.

Pretty cool!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Just to set the record straight, we loved the Tron monorail. My son loved the movie, and it fit with the Future World theme in our minds, as well as the transportation methods that were used or implied in the movie. The problem with riding on the Tron monorail was that we had a hard time seeing out the windows brecause they were mostly covered up.

Thanks again, Eddie, for your analysis. I don't mind the occasional Coke label, especially when they are themed like in the Hurambia Village (I think) with old-fashioned rusty signage. But I do have some minor irritation on Magic Express, when it gives the DVC spiel. Nevertheless, it all pales to the annoyance of the TTA narration in large part because something fun and cool was replaced by these uninspired gift shop plugs by Mr. Wimpy Voice. But that's just my pet peeve.

Interesting. If it made the experience any less or more claustrophobic, I'd probably complain about that. I thought the Tron-orail was a nice design and was something I only could see at WDW. I've read they only do one train, not all of them. That would be better I guess and a bit more special.

The original "Peoplemover" went through the gift shop as well.

"The Character Shop, it's the modern way to window shop" that was all it said while you were seeing it. I loved riding through all the shows and looking down on them. Any other ad seems irrelevant.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Policy can breed bad behavior.

I agree that people feel they are entitled to things because of the high prices etc but that does not give them an excuse for bad behavior. Like all the spit balls you find throughout the rides. Or the littering... That is not because of the prices they pay it is because people no longer have any morals and do not know how to get their kids to behave.

My trip at the end of March I was disgusted by the way people acted. It is a said display of the way we act as a group these days.

Agree. The guest experience is also determined by how WE treat the other guests we're sharing it with. So True. Policies can spark the worst in people too and it does not take much. Littering also results from a messy environment to begin with. An old Disney saying is "trash breeds trash". If you see a clean area you tend to respect it, if it's not, you join the littering in progress. Today's crowds may be more challenging. Another policy example would be unfair or "open" parade or fireworks seating. No terrace or difficult viewing angles in roped areas invite guests to block out the greater number by standing. People get in physical fights over kids on shoulders blocking their view. Access to Alcohol does not help in some cases. So much is at stake when a vacation costs that much and your kid can't see, or the park is oversold and they are whining. Environment can bring out good or bad behavior if the bar is already set low in the guest's ethics. We live in a world today where more and more behavior is legislated, as the less conscience some people exercise to control themselves, the only fear they have for doing wrong is getting caught. Theme Parks rely a lot on good guest behavior as they cannot fiscally afford to be "police states" and should not be. Look at the LA Dodger's incident that resulted in the Stadium becoming a police state. (Isolated for sure), but the alcohol and tolerance of bad behavior breeds escalation and the notion that you can do anything. Many guests still are well behaved and mirror the happy spirit of the parks, but there are more and more situations, (like the Airlines experience) where the close quarters and rule driven experience breeds discontent. Designers and Operators play a role in designing experiences that are kind add fair. I always fought for the narrower queues (36 inches) as it naturally limits the incentive for people to try and cut in front of you. Don't forget, Pleasure Island opened with a Roller Skating Rink that allowed you to skate up to a full bar! Drunks on wheels! Insane.

Today's culture is very different from that of Walt's day where people actually dressed up to come to the parks. That says something about the way we respect each other in public. I know that in nice restaurants the dress code has fallen pretty far and it lowers the specialness of "date nite" or a special occasion in high end dining experiences. Rivera has ways to accommodate both and we try and hold the bar as high as is practical. I don't want to pay big bucks for an anniversary dinner and look at a guy in a dirty T shirt at the next table. Times have changed and so you adjust. I recall a story that was told to me by one of the old guard supervisors operating Disneyland. In the early days of selling unlimited use passports, he found a teen in the bathroom spinning and unravelling the toilet paper and throwing it all over the wet floor. The place was a mess. He asked the youth why he was doing it and the answer was that "he was getting his money's worth." Hmmm. The CM went on to tell me that he did not like the idea of losing the ticket books because it gave the guest the subconscious idea that they owned the place. The attractions lose the sense of value of being a "transaction". No ticket takers to control the entry to the rides, meant they were just there for the taking. "Unlimited use" meant you could "learn them" and then vandalize or jump out of them. Combine that use policy with the society we live in today which has a "me first" mentality and you are where you are. I never forgot that story and analogy as I heard it in the early 80's!

Some see it a sign of the "last days" of this system of things. Another thread altogether.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Good book on Character.

Here's something that also captures good character as Disney tried to live it himself. Free to read on Google.

http://books.google.com/books/about/How_to_Be_Like_Walt.html?id=lSJIngvkCsAC

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Forgive me if it's in either of these wonderfully cavernous threads, but I didn't know Eddie had his name on a Main Street window at DLP.

Pretty cool!

It's not been mentioned, and yes it is a great honor to get a window while you're alive to see it! I got some heat for that because some of the other land designers wanted their own window. I told them it used up too many and that we should share. Thought the joke played better as more of a "clinic" idea anyhow. I did the Dentist Voice and agonizing patient moans that play from the dentist office window ( laughter while drills run and teeth are pulled). The same effects play from another "Dr. Bitz office" in MSUSA DL although my name is not featured. Fun stuff.

You can hear it here, along with some other audio stuff I voiced on, like the Market House Phones and the Marceline Hotel.

http://www.themeparkaudioarchives.com/members/disneyland_main_street.html

 

[culturenthrills]

It's the monorail. It's an icon. You don't mess with icons. Don't they remember the birthday cake castle?

Oh, I will never forget the old pepto bismol castle.:ROFLOL:

I think I have pictures of it somewhere. That is something hopefully we will never see again. Of course at night they could just use the projectors to turn the castle into a birthday cake if they wanted to. :snore:

 

[thehowiet]

Completely agree with your sentiment here. The look of the monorail wrap is tacky and "real world" enough, but the gun pointing is juts pushing it over the edge. And I'm sure it looks just lovely in the MK station or driving by the $500 +/night rooms at the GF.

When these sorts of things appear, it signals to me that WDW has really lost touch with its own identity (meaning execs really don't know what WDW was and it what it should be).

It's the monorail. It's an icon. You don't mess with icons. Don't they remember the birthday cake castle?

So now, People will start to wonder what they'll do next, will we see the next teen pop star on monorails, and are they going to start wrapping more than one? The monorail has always been a clean, warm (in appearance) vehicle, now its just a moving billboard like city buses, as you said.

I agree with all of these comments. It really does come off as tacky to me. This is exactly the same thing they do with the Vegas monorails. They are moving billboards, which is fine....for Vegas. I also wasn't a huge fan of the Tronorail, but that was at least executed a little better and was less of an in your face advertisement in my opinion. To me the Avengerail wrap looks like the exact same design they'll be using on billboards worldwide, even going as far as including the release date, while paying zero attention to the actual design of the monorail train itself.

Sadly, I think we will be seeing a lot more of these in the future. Maybe next they can start projecting advertisements on the back of the doombuggies in the Haunted Mansion so that guests ridding in the vehicle behind will know when the next Disney movie will be released.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Like all the spit balls you find throughout the rides. Or the littering... That is not because of the prices they pay it is because people no longer have any morals and do not know how to get their kids to behave.

My trip at the end of March I was disgusted by the way people acted. It is a said display of the way we act as a group these days.[/QUOTE]

It's 3rd graders raising 3rd graders. Parents who are too clueless to have good behavior themselves, and/or too lazy to push it in their kids. In Church the other day, a tall teenage boy rested his arms on the top of his head, utterly blocking the view of the people behind him and attracting attention to his arm pits. His clueless parents never did a thing about it, in Church. I know the parents, and they're whiners about most things, calling their boys gifted and blaming any number of people for their problems and their boys' failures, which are numerous. Fine examples they are of the larger problems in society. Clueless. Rude. Crude. Elitist. Blind.

 

[HMF]

I agree that people feel they are entitled to things because of the high prices etc but that does not give them an excuse for bad behavior.

I agree with that, but we are now near the age where traditional currency is on it's way out due to the benefits of mass production. Within a few years I can see the credit card as the sole currency.