DVC Problems?: Chicago/NYC Sales Office to Close

[flynnibus]

Has nothing to do with the office closing but since people are posting that seem to know DVC I thought I would ask. BTW I think many DVC's are financed, how many people have 30-50K just hanging around???

The upfront money isn't that high for most.. and people often take money out of other places (like home equity) or investments to pay for large purchases like this.

Some finance, but many do not finance through Disney too..

 

[baymenxpac]

I think if they had moved the New York location in to NYC it might have been beneficial. Yes the Long Island location is in a nice part of Long Island but it is in LI. I know the rent in Manhattan would be more expensive (unless they just put a small office in the Disney Store TS) but the foot traffic in Manhattan is huge. Also a lot of the people who have the kind of cash to just buy a time share out right are in Manhattan not in LI. Many of them don't live in Manhattan but they work here and if they see something about a Disney timeshare they may stop in to ask some questions.

sorry, but no. not at all.

first off, your assessment of long island couldn't be further from accurate. i don't know where you're going with the "but it is in (sic) LI" comment, but for the record, long island has an obscene amount of disposal income. ever been to cold spring harbor? manhasset? any part of the gold coast? it's called that for a reason. and that's just the most affluent areas. the majority of areas are very firmly entrenched in middle-to-upper-middle class strata.

secondly, the people who commute to manhattan do just that: commute. they go in on the LIRR or NJ transit, take the subway, bus, cab or a very quick walk to work, then go back to penn station and come on home. usually in something that resembles a dead sprint. there's not a lot of leisurely walking around to explore if they can buy into bay lake tower or excess time to try to sit down and understand the annual dues.

like @ParentsOf4 said, it makes no sense to rent out space anywhere (especially, of all places, manhattan) when you can use your own facilities rent-free AND be in better position to sell. all the closing of these locations mean are disney doesn't feel like wasting money on something that i'm sure brought in very little in terms of return on their investment.

 

[wilkeliza]

sorry, but no. not at all.

first off, your assessment of long island couldn't be further from accurate. i don't know where you're going with the "but it is in (sic) LI" comment, but for the record, long island has an obscene amount of disposal income. ever been to cold spring harbor? manhasset? any part of the gold coast? it's called that for a reason. and that's just the most affluent areas. the majority of areas are very firmly entrenched in middle-to-upper-middle class strata.

secondly, the people who commute to manhattan do just that: commute. they go in on the LIRR or NJ transit, take the subway, bus, cab or a very quick walk to work, then go back to penn station and come on home. usually in something that resembles a dead sprint. there's not a lot of leisurely walking around to explore if they can buy into bay lake tower or excess time to try to sit down and understand the annual dues.

like @ParentsOf4 said, it makes no sense to rent out space anywhere (especially, of all places, manhattan) when you can use your own facilities rent-free AND be in better position to sell. all the closing of these locations mean are disney doesn't feel like wasting money on something that i'm sure brought in very little in terms of return on their investment.

Yes like I said it is in a nice part of Long Island as you pointed out as well but what I was saying is in Manhattan you not only get the people from LI who have money but you also get the people who live in Manhattan and also your NJ and CT commuters. I was a commuter for several years and have close friends who are also commuters. Not all commuters just get on the train and go back home.

Also with the "foot traffic" comment I wasn't just saying commuters. My commuters comment was more about people who have the disposable income that already have to be in NYC for work who might make a meeting on their lunch break or right after work on a Friday to sit down and chat about it. Not many people are going to go out to LI to do that unless they live in those areas or maybe that's just me since I live in Manhattan. The foot traffic comment was about the hundreds of thousands of tourists who are in NYC on a daily basis. None of these people are going to go out to LI but a few of them might go into an office at the Disney Store Times Square and talke about buying into DVC and a few just like those who travel in WDW might just have that extra income to buy into DVC.

I wasn't trying to offend you if you are from Long Island I was just trying to say that it is not using NY to its fullest potential especially since the Disney company already has offices and a store in NYC. They could easily use the real estate they already pay for and repurpose some of it for this.

 

[bunnyman]

sorry, but no. not at all.

first off, your assessment of long island couldn't be further from accurate. i don't know where you're going with the "but it is in (sic) LI" comment, but for the record, long island has an obscene amount of disposal income. ever been to cold spring harbor? manhasset? any part of the gold coast? it's called that for a reason. and that's just the most affluent areas. the majority of areas are very firmly entrenched in middle-to-upper-middle class strata.

secondly, the people who commute to manhattan do just that: commute. they go in on the LIRR or NJ transit, take the subway, bus, cab or a very quick walk to work, then go back to penn station and come on home. usually in something that resembles a dead sprint. there's not a lot of leisurely walking around to explore if they can buy into bay lake tower or excess time to try to sit down and understand the annual dues.

like @ParentsOf4 said, it makes no sense to rent out space anywhere (especially, of all places, manhattan) when you can use your own facilities rent-free AND be in better position to sell. all the closing of these locations mean are disney doesn't feel like wasting money on something that i'm sure brought in very little in terms of return on their investment.

Agree. Having grown up in the Garden City area, I can tell you that many in the village commute into NYC (just look at the 9/11 rolls from Garden City, and you’ll see that it had the largest number of victims within one town). I’m in Roosevelt Field quite often, and have never really seen much foot traffic going in there. In fact, the way it looks from the outside it is not really that inviting for walk in's, as it was really set up for appointments (kind of like a doctor’s office). I work in a local office building where they’ve set up tables in the cafeteria from the Roosevelt Field DVC location, and other than those stopping by to say hi who are already members, they don’t really seem to get many potential customers walking up. As someone said in an earlier post, you really have to be in the middle of the “magic” at WDW, etc., to become interested enough to sit and talk. I just returned from a DCL trip, and they had a desk right on the ship near the future cruise desk, plus they gave public sessions with gifts/prizes, and I saw a decent amount of activity. Heard a couple of instances where groups traveling together had one DVC member that ended up talking another into joining. Again, the hook is being in the middle of everything Disney that gets the motivation going, not a mall.

 

[bunnyman]

Yes like I said it is in a nice part of Long Island as you pointed out as well but what I was saying is in Manhattan you not only get the people from LI who have money but you also get the people who live in Manhattan and also your NJ and CT commuters. I was a commuter for several years and have close friends who are also commuters. Not all commuters just get on the train and go back home.

Also with the "foot traffic" comment I wasn't just saying commuters. My commuters comment was more about people who have the disposable income that already have to be in NYC for work who might make a meeting on their lunch break or right after work on a Friday to sit down and chat about it. Not many people are going to go out to LI to do that unless they live in those areas or maybe that's just me since I live in Manhattan. The foot traffic comment was about the hundreds of thousands of tourists who are in NYC on a daily basis. None of these people are going to go out to LI but a few of them might go into an office at the Disney Store Times Square and talke about buying into DVC and a few just like those who travel in WDW might just have that extra income to buy into DVC.

I wasn't trying to offend you if you are from Long Island I was just trying to say that it is not using NY to its fullest potential especially since the Disney company already has offices and a store in NYC. They could easily use the real estate they already pay for and repurpose some of it for this.

Listen, everyone has good points, and as a LI’er I don’t take offense to your comments. At the end of the day, most people are going where they’re going for a purpose, either to shop at a mall, shop in NYC, see a Broadway show, etc. I’ve never really felt the urge when I’m out shopping or in NYC to say to the family “hey, let’s sit down for an hour or two and look into buying into DVC”. On the other hand, when I’m at WDW in the middle of the Mickey mania, I’ve had more than my fair share of conversations with DVC reps. Most people I know aren’t even aware that DVC has a Roosevelt Field site, and it’s location within the mall is not exactly on most people’s footpath (outside of Nordstrom’s). The kiosk they have in the middle of the mall is usually just walked through by people without really realizing that it’s there.

 

[wilkeliza]

Listen, everyone has good points, and as a LI’er I don’t take offense to your comments. At the end of the day, most people are going where they’re going for a purpose, either to shop at a mall, shop in NYC, see a Broadway show, etc. I’ve never really felt the urge when I’m out shopping or in NYC to say to the family “hey, let’s sit down for an hour or two and look into buying into DVC”. On the other hand, when I’m at WDW in the middle of the Mickey mania, I’ve had more than my fair share of conversations with DVC reps. Most people I know aren’t even aware that DVC has a Roosevelt Field site, and it’s location within the mall is not exactly on most people’s footpath (outside of Nordstrom’s). The kiosk they have in the middle of the mall is usually just walked through by people without really realizing that it’s there.

I think what you are saying is true. Most people aren't going to just stop and ask about DVC no matter where a location is if it is outside of DL or DW.

 

[baymenxpac]

Yes like I said it is in a nice part of Long Island as you pointed out as well but what I was saying is in Manhattan you not only get the people from LI who have money but you also get the people who live in Manhattan and also your NJ and CT commuters. I was a commuter for several years and have close friends who are also commuters. Not all commuters just get on the train and go back home.

Also with the "foot traffic" comment I wasn't just saying commuters. My commuters comment was more about people who have the disposable income that already have to be in NYC for work who might make a meeting on their lunch break or right after work on a Friday to sit down and chat about it. Not many people are going to go out to LI to do that unless they live in those areas or maybe that's just me since I live in Manhattan. The foot traffic comment was about the hundreds of thousands of tourists who are in NYC on a daily basis. None of these people are going to go out to LI but a few of them might go into an office at the Disney Store Times Square and talke about buying into DVC and a few just like those who travel in WDW might just have that extra income to buy into DVC.

I wasn't trying to offend you if you are from Long Island I was just trying to say that it is not using NY to its fullest potential especially since the Disney company already has offices and a store in NYC. They could easily use the real estate they already pay for and repurpose some of it for this.

i'm sorry. i didn't mean for it to come off like you offended me. you didn't.

that said, i understand what you're saying. it would seem to make sense at first thought, but i just think that no matter where you would put a kiosk or a storefront, it's unnatural.

 

[bunnyman]

I think what you are saying is true. Most people aren't going to just stop and ask about DVC no matter where a location is if it is outside of DL or DW.

I liken the concept to the future cruise desk on the ships. When I’m on the ship having a great time, I’m more inclined to book a future cruise. But the more time that elapses once I’m home, I feel less inclined to do so, or find other things to spend money on, or find other vacations to take. We were also hooked in a couple of times by “bounce back” offers that they put in WDW property hotels where you had to book the offer before you left. But again, the more time and distance between me and WDW, the urge starts to gradually subside.

 

[TINKER625]

I am a long islander from the North shore(Golden Coast) If you are familiar with this area, a brand new mall is going up right next to Roosevelt Field. Its insane. We have 3 malls right next to each other. The rents are VERY VERY expensive. A coffee shop at Roosevelt field is $8000.00 a month. The DVC is up stairs in the MAll so you have to go upstiars. Not much foot traffic. But if you think every one on LONG ISLAND IS RICH YOU ARE VERY WRONG. The camps this year were not filled and family vacations were not as long. NOBODY can get a loan for anything. Our taxes are going thru the roof. Suffolk county the East End of Long Island is going BANKUPT. Hamptons, etc the very rich area. Many MANY homes for sale. If your going to buy DVC like my friend 3 months ago. It was done on line with a resale agent. No need to go to the mall when everything you want to do is at your finger tips.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Has nothing to do with the office closing but since people are posting that seem to know DVC I thought I would ask. BTW I think many DVC's are financed, how many people have 30-50K just hanging around??? Most people lease or finance cars so I'm not thinking they come up with cash for their DVC. I could be wrong, the finance everything America is not likely to pony up cash for much of anything.

Ah, now we are getting into the realm of how people do and should spend their money. A DVC is not a house or car which fulfills a need. (I consider a car to a “need” unless living in an area with extensive public transportation.) You purchase a DVC because you want it, not because you need it. Purchasing a DVC is like buying a vacation home or a boat; it’s a luxury item.

Large ticket items such as vacation homes or boats need to be paid for all at once. If you don’t have the money, you have to finance. You have no choice. This is not true with Disney vacations. What Disney is trying to do is to get you to bundle together a series of individual vacations that you could have paid for one at a time. Why on earth would you want to pay a lump sum for future vacations unless there was a reason? Disney pushes the “savings” gimmick to try to convince you that it’s in your best financial interest to bundle these together. “You’ll save so much if you buy a DVC.”

As others have posted, DVC is a long-term commitment already requiring years to realize savings. If you remain a DVC member for many years, it’s possible to achieve significant savings. However, once you finance a DVC membership, you pretty much wipe out any financial savings you might have achieved by bundling your multiple vacations into a single package. If you finance your DVC, you destroy the strongest financial reason for purchasing DVC. (DVC membership has other perks but these provide only ancillary financial benefits.)

There are non-financial reasons to purchase a DVC and I make no attempt to judge these. In addition, there are some circumstances where financing makes sense. (For example, the money is in an investment with a rate-of-return greater than DVC financing.) However, for most consumers, any possible financial gain from purchasing a DVC is lost if the purchase is financed.

There is little to no fiscal justification for financing a DVC purchase. IMHO, you should never finance a DVC purchase if your primary goal is to save money.

Sorry for stealing the thread but I thought it imporant for people who might be reading this thread and are considering a DVC purchase.

 

[GoofGoof]

So, my concern over buying resale versus direct isn't the current change in owner rights, but the potential future changes they could choose to implement. We've traded out into the Concierge Collection twice and used for DCL once since 1999. Not very often at all, and not enough to suggest we tie ourselves to those benefits. But, other changes and differentiations may impact us.

We've bought both direct and resale, and other than the additional time it takes to do resale and cost savings, found no real difference between the two (before changes were made).

When they made the change it was only for future resale contracts. Previous resales were grandfathered in. They cannot legally take away something that you are entitled to when you purchase the contract. They can take away perks like AP discounts since they are listed as not being guaranteed, but they cannot take away basic rights of ownership.

My point on using the trade ins often is this. When I bought my resale points at BLT I paid $94 a point or roughly $15K. Buying those same points direct through Disney at $165 a point is $26K. The $11K I saved can cover a whole lot of cruises and hotel stays. To me it's not worth paying $11K extra to trade in for hotel rooms or cruises. Realistically I never plan to use my DVC points for trade in even through RCI. DVC is at the top of the food chain for timeshares. If you trade in through RCI the room you are getting is almost guaranteed to be cheaper than what your points are worth. For example, If you were to rent out 160 points even at $10 a point you would get $1,600. There is a good chance you could rent the timeshare you are getting as a trade in for less than that. I only use my points every other year at WDW so if I want to go somewhere in the off year I just pay out of pocket for my room. This is obviously just my way to travel and everyone has different uses so I'm not saying this is the only way to use it.

I also agree with some of the others that I would not finance DVC. It is a luxury item and If I couldn't afford it outright I wouldn't buy it. That's just my opinion and I know it's anti-American of me.

 

[Brian Noble]

Just wondering what the foreclosure rate is at DVC??? Anyone have an idea??? All I know is on Hilton Head Island our local paper is filled with time shares being foreclosed or what ever you call it when you don't pay for your time share any more. In the legal notices I saw maybe 40 notices coming from Marriott time shares alone. We have a Disney DVC up here and I really haven't noticed many of those but I'm not looking for the most part, it just sticks out when you have 4 or 5 pages of foreclosures in the legal notice section of the paper. Happens on a monthly basis at least.

Most of those foreclosures are on intervals with zero (or almost zero) resale value. There is no other way out for the owners who want to get rid of their ownerships, and for many---particularly if they are seniors and past the "borrowing" stage of their financial lives---just defaulting is the easiest and least costly way out.

 

[vinnya1726]

That's the most logical, honest post I've ever read by an owner.

That is why I am looking at resale. I Visited the Doorway to Dreams store here on the Island and what they wanted was out of this world. Resale is the way to go, which is why Disney started putting limitations on those buying resale. People are still going to do it though, buying direct from Disney is just too expensive and not worth it.

 

[captainkidd]

That is why I am looking at resale. I Visited the Doorway to Dreams store here on the Island and what they wanted was out of this world. Resale is the way to go, which is why Disney started putting limitations on those buying resale. People are still going to do it though, buying direct from Disney is just too expensive and not worth it.

Not to steal others lines, but worth is based on individual. I agree with you - Buying through Disney is not worth it. Then again, I've been looking at resale, and I came across a listing today for WL for 600 points. It's a lot of points, but it's about what we'd need each year. The dues alone are $3,300 per year. That's what always gets me.

 

[GoofGoof]

Just wondering what the foreclosure rate is at DVC??? Anyone have an idea??? All I know is on Hilton Head Island our local paper is filled with time shares being foreclosed or what ever you call it when you don't pay for your time share any more. In the legal notices I saw maybe 40 notices coming from Marriott time shares alone. We have a Disney DVC up here and I really haven't noticed many of those but I'm not looking for the most part, it just sticks out when you have 4 or 5 pages of foreclosures in the legal notice section of the paper. Happens on a monthly basis at least.

I have no idea what the foreclosure rate is for DVC. I have heard of a lot of timeshares selling for $1 or people just abandoning them and letting them go to foreclosure. The issue is that maintenance fees cover costs that are mostly fixed like real estate tax, maintenance, security, front desk, etc. As more people default or just fall behind on fee payments the costs exceed the revenue from the fees. I read somewhere that close to 50% of timeshare owners are at least 1 year behind in fee payments. The timeshare is forced to raise the fees to cover. Those left paying are seeing huge increases in fees. Traditional timeshares have seen increases much larger than those at DVC over the last few years. On average something like 7 to 10% per year (don't quote me on that, but I think it's ballpark). People can't or don't want to keep up with the increases so they dump. That just accelerates the problem. With DVC if you are behind on fees your account is frozen until you pay the dues. They can then rent cash rooms to supplement your lost fees. Also, if someone does go into default they would never sell for $1 due to ROFR. Disney would just buy back and resell.

 

[Brian Noble]

I read somewhere that close to 50% of timeshare owners are at least 1 year behind in fee payments.

I'm not sure where that number comes from, but based on the budgets at the two resorts I own, 50% is probably far too high. Bad debt at my two is much much lower. Then again, mine are both pretty aggressive at foreclosing and reselling units to get those fees paid.

 

[Funfy]

No one is going to close a 50+k commitment by looking at a DVC website.

So much of the close is dependent on that in person exchange, and having the mock-ups there is essential. There is no 'well they aren't needed with the web' kind of BS. The web or even a phone agent isn't going to close a real estate deal like this.

This really is just Disney shifting their sales strategy.

Actually, we never toured one, just looked at the informational kit and the went with it. And, we were not disappointed. It can happen.

 

[Funfy]

DVC resales are no longer eligible to trade in for hotel rooms at WDW or DL or DCL or the adventure thing with safaris and stuff. You can still trade in through RCI. There are only something like 50 villas in CA so there is not a lot of availability. In my opinion it's hard to justify economically why you would pay nearly double for the same points just to do a cruise or stay in a hotel room. You would have to plan on mostly using those trade ins. If you only want to trade in every now and then it's not worth it.

The reason we use them to take the cruises (twice) is because I do not have the time nor do I want to get involved with renting points to someone-it is not worth it to me and I will take the hit for the sake of convenience and peace of mind.

 

[bunnyman]

Not to steal others lines, but worth is based on individual. I agree with you - Buying through Disney is not worth it. Then again, I've been looking at resale, and I came across a listing today for WL for 600 points. It's a lot of points, but it's about what we'd need each year. The dues alone are $3,300 per year. That's what always gets me.

The dues were usually what killed it for us, as in some cases they were more than we'd pay for a basic hotel stay alone (we don't always go deluxe).

 

[captainkidd]

The dues were usually what killed it for us, as in some cases they were more than we'd pay for a basic hotel stay alone (we don't always go deluxe).

Well, that's where everyone pretty much agrees. If you don't compare apples to apples, DVC isn't going to make financial sense. Once you start throwing Moderates or Values into the mix, DVC isn't the way to go.