DVC Problems?: Chicago/NYC Sales Office to Close

[WDW1974]

For some reason, I can't edit the above ... but I think I glossed over a key point.

If you'd pay rack rate for a 2-bedroom at OKW every October for 12 nights then no doubt you have a deal with DVC.

But for someone who is used to getting discounts of 30-60% everytime I book a WDW resort, there is no value at all. None.

 

[GoofGoof]

Debated wading in here because as much as I'm known as a Disney hater, I'm known even more as a DVC hater (and that's with family and good friends being 'owners').

I have been to four presentations over the years and a few other special events, like touring BW and BLT before they opened (got a buffet of some sort for BW, a dessert type thing with characters for BLT!)

Now, I have issues with what they do to the quality of a deluxe resort when added (sorry, folks bringing in bags of Walmart groceries doesn't say 'class' to me) but I'll place that aside.

I'd rather focus on the value aspect because I certainly think it is a value for some folks (vastly fewer than likely think so, though).

It all comes down to what I've gone through every time I've had a DVC sales pitch. Do I vacation a lot? Check. Do I go to WDW frequently? Check. Do I enjoy staying on property? Check. Would I like to lock in a rate for 43 years? Sorta check? Would I like to stay in deluxe resorts? Check.

All sounds good, right?

Except Disney bases its value on what they charge for rack rate for the same DVC accomodations during said periods of the year. I'd never pay rack rate to stay at WDW ever, anyway. And I'd certainly not pay say $700 a night for a villa there (don't care that I can have friends and family with me, I don't even like them!) DVC stops becoming a value as soon as you realize you are being 'upsold' into a product you wouldn't normally stay at. Sure, if that villa at $700 a night would be your normal accomodation, then maybe Disney has you. But what if you're perfectly happy staying at a value motel? Oh ... well, Disney's line is prices increase every year, which they do ... but discounts are constant. I can book a room at the All Stars next week for $66 a night (I paid $79 to stay there a dozen summers ago, so how is that a price increase?) ... DVC's sales pitch pretends that there are no such things as discounts and that you have to stay in a 'luxury DVC villa' versus a regular resort room. It certainly doesn't take into account that you can also stay off-property for far less and at other timeshares for far less (some that offer far more).

I think the Pixie Dust factor plays a big factor in some folks thinking. I have a relative who was touting 'owning' a place at WDW as soon as she bought into OKW (she later added points at Vero and BC and dropped her husband for another woman, but that's a whole different story!) She didn't like when I pointed out that she in essence owned nothing at all. She had simply bought into a pre-paid vacation plan and one that makes the points far less valuable the further you travel from your home resort (leave O-Town and they really drop!)

I think it's emotional for many. There's no way it would ever come close to being a value for me (except maybe picking up one of those $35 per point resales for a short time), but I also travel to places beyond Orlando. And I'm a pretty savvy traveler because while I like being a one percenter, I much prefer that I don't spend money at all.

There's no doubt that DVC is doing better than others in the business, but it's also safe to say that the market isn't what it once was (see those 70% discounts at Aulani now for CMs) and will likely continue to be diluted. If there isn't an endless number of rubes waiting to experience WDW, there certainly isn't an endless number of rubes who wish to purchase MAGICal timeshare.

(flame suit on!)

You get no argument from me on most of this. If you compare DVC to anything other than a deluxe resort it's not a great value. You have to compare it to a discounted deluxe room. For me I think of DVC as a way to stay in villas for around what I would pay for a deluxe studio room. I know I could stay at a value resort or off site and save money. I have become accustomed to staying in condos with my family and DVC is the only way it works for me if I want to stay on property and have the extra space. I am more of an every other year visitor (or twice every 3 years) so I bank and borrow my points. I like to go other places besides WDW too.

Your Aulani point is intersting. I didn't really understand why Disney was building a DVC in Hawaii when I first heard about it. Seemed like a great place to trade in for one time, but who will the owners be? Someone explained to me that a large base of sales were expected to come from Japan. In my trips to Hawaii I can confirm there are a Lot of Japanese tourists in HI so I guess that makes sense. After the tsunami and nuclear plant issue I guess it's not the best time to rely on Japanese tourists.

 

[Longhairbear]

Debated wading in here because as much as I'm known as a Disney hater, I'm known even more as a DVC hater (and that's with family and good friends being 'owners').

I have been to four presentations over the years and a few other special events, like touring BW and BLT before they opened (got a buffet of some sort for BW, a dessert type thing with characters for BLT!)

Now, I have issues with what they do to the quality of a deluxe resort when added (sorry, folks bringing in bags of Walmart groceries doesn't say 'class' to me) but I'll place that aside.

I'd rather focus on the value aspect because I certainly think it is a value for some folks (vastly fewer than likely think so, though).

It all comes down to what I've gone through every time I've had a DVC sales pitch. Do I vacation a lot? Check. Do I go to WDW frequently? Check. Do I enjoy staying on property? Check. Would I like to lock in a rate for 43 years? Sorta check? Would I like to stay in deluxe resorts? Check.

All sounds good, right?

Except Disney bases its value on what they charge for rack rate for the same DVC accomodations during said periods of the year. I'd never pay rack rate to stay at WDW ever, anyway. And I'd certainly not pay say $700 a night for a villa there (don't care that I can have friends and family with me, I don't even like them!) DVC stops becoming a value as soon as you realize you are being 'upsold' into a product you wouldn't normally stay at. Sure, if that villa at $700 a night would be your normal accomodation, then maybe Disney has you. But what if you're perfectly happy staying at a value motel? Oh ... well, Disney's line is prices increase every year, which they do ... but discounts are constant. I can book a room at the All Stars next week for $66 a night (I paid $79 to stay there a dozen summers ago, so how is that a price increase?) ... DVC's sales pitch pretends that there are no such things as discounts and that you have to stay in a 'luxury DVC villa' versus a regular resort room. It certainly doesn't take into account that you can also stay off-property for far less and at other timeshares for far less (some that offer far more).

I think the Pixie Dust factor plays a big factor in some folks thinking. I have a relative who was touting 'owning' a place at WDW as soon as she bought into OKW (she later added points at Vero and BC and dropped her husband for another woman, but that's a whole different story!) She didn't like when I pointed out that she in essence owned nothing at all. She had simply bought into a pre-paid vacation plan and one that makes the points far less valuable the further you travel from your home resort (leave O-Town and they really drop!)

I think it's emotional for many. There's no way it would ever come close to being a value for me (except maybe picking up one of those $35 per point resales for a short time), but I also travel to places beyond Orlando. And I'm a pretty savvy traveler because while I like being a one percenter, I much prefer that I don't spend money at all.

There's no doubt that DVC is doing better than others in the business, but it's also safe to say that the market isn't what it once was (see those 70% discounts at Aulani now for CMs) and will likely continue to be diluted. If there isn't an endless number of rubes waiting to experience WDW, there certainly isn't an endless number of rubes who wish to purchase MAGICal timeshare.

(flame suit on!)

I would never flame you, but I might have a polite disagreement with you. You make some good points, and I am guilty of some of them. However I do also know that I am getting a better value for the way we vacation, and where we are willing, and not willing to stay no matter the savings. Am I a snob? No, but a great cook. You should see the meals I whip up with the Walmart groceries in my DVC kitchen. I know I am saving money on meals when at WDW. The savings go to upscale dinners within Disney, and Dole Whips. Things I can't make at home. Where else can I make a full Thanksgiving turkey and step outside to ride a few attractions, and then hop back to baste the bird? Oh yea, that would only be at the Grand California. I'm happy with my DVC, so there.

 

[WDW1974]

I would never flame you, but I might have a polite disagreement with you. You make some good points, and I am guilty of some of them. However I do also know that I am getting a better value for the way we vacation, and where we are willing, and not willing to stay no matter the savings. Am I a snob? No, but a great cook. You should see the meals I whip up with the Walmart groceries in my DVC kitchen. I know I am saving money on meals when at WDW. The savings go to upscale dinners within Disney, and Dole Whips. Things I can't make at home. Where else can I make a full Thanksgiving turkey and step outside to ride a few attractions, and then hop back to baste the bird? Oh yea, that would only be at the Grand California. I'm happy with my DVC, so there.

That's what counts.

But the idea of cooking at home is something I don't do. I either dine out, buy premade food that I heat up at home or make the best damn Spirited sandwiches and salads in the UNIverse. So, I'd never use a kitchen at a DVC except possibly to reheat leftovers, which I often do in basic hotel rooms.

I will admit that when at DLP in May we stayed at the absolute top of the line Grand Villa (puts to shame any/every DVC I've been in except perhaps the two-story Grand in the BLT that I toured, although I liked the style and furnishings better at Marriott) and one night we did make a basic, but wonderful pasta and salad and champagne dinner. Trust me, though, that was a once in a blue moon deal.

But Walmart? ... Nope, never, ever, ever ...

 

[Bolna]

For some reason, I can't edit the above ... but I think I glossed over a key point.

If you'd pay rack rate for a 2-bedroom at OKW every October for 12 nights then no doubt you have a deal with DVC.

But for someone who is used to getting discounts of 30-60% everytime I book a WDW resort, there is no value at all. None.

I agree with most of what you are saying - but I think with regard to discounts you personally might be in a much more advantageous position than many others as you are a Florida resident and AP holder - and those are two groups which usually get deeper and more available discounts than others.

Still, your main point stays correct. The value of DVC is personal and has to be seen in comparison to how someone would vacation if they did not buy into DVC. Just as with the Dining Plan: If you only rarely eat at TS restaurants normally and would not order lots of desserts there is no value in getting the plan.

 

[Longhairbear]

I agree with most of what you are saying - but I think with regard to discounts you personally might be in a much more advantageous position than many others as you are a Florida resident and AP holder - and those are two groups which usually get deeper and more available discounts than others.

Still, your main point stays correct. The value of DVC is personal and has to be seen in comparison to how someone would vacation if they did not buy into DVC. Just as with the Dining Plan: If you only rarely eat at TS restaurants normally and would not order lots of desserts there is no value in getting the plan.

Because we cook breakfast, and fancy /diet friendly/ something we never had dinners in our villa to rival what's served on the DDP, we are saving hundreds of dollars. Believe me when I say that. We both love to cook, and are not one of those " I'm vacation, and don't want to cook..." sissies. We bought DVC to enhance our foodie hobby. We used to go during Food and Wine, and will again to get recipe ideas. Our vacations all over the country revolve around good food, and wine, and cocktails. The upside to DVC is the parks, and WDW, and DLR.
Our opinion of the DDP? No thanks.