DTD's Marketplace Complete?

[flavious27]

Wow. I've been digging around Save Please Island and there are at least a couple hints and rumors that Hyperion Wharf is in trouble. There's even a suggestion or two that Disney may be looking into reopening some clubs.

Can't wait to see how this plays out!

:sohappy:

 

[xdan0920]

I've been skimming this thread today, and I'm trying to figure out if this is actually the case, or if I missed something....

After shuttering Pleasure Island a few years ago, Hyperion Wharf was announced at a small media event back in November, 2010. But the announcement had no real info on any actual store or restaurant to inhabit this new concept. Six months later, and there still has been no announcements on any major new store or restaurant that will be a tenant in Hyperion Wharf. Disney has continued to demolish a few of the old nightclubs, but a few of them still sit there in mothballs. No major construction work on anything other than "seed and mulch" has begun.

So.... Hyperion Wharf is heading towards a Flamingo Crossings type status in purgatory? It was announced six months ago in a very vague sort of way, and then it's just sort of sat there with only some basic land clearing and infrastructure work completed and no tenants announced.

Is that about where we are with this Hyperion Wharf thing? More energy seems to have been spent on this thread than on actual Hyperion Wharf construction.

You are essentially correct. The only thing keeping this from being a Flamingo Crossings level disaster is the fact that there are a couple restaurants operating on the island formerly known to provide night time entertainment. The way things look, we will never see that concept art come to fruition. It's a shame really, because PI could really be something special. Not just a lawn.

 

[Orangelake555]

Rapid Infiltration Basins, allow land treatment and disposal of wastewater. Applied wastewater percolates through the soil and the treated effluent drains via hydraulic pathways to groundwater or surface water.

http://wikimapia.org/5658665/rapid-infiltration-basins

oh eww. i guess i didnt really want to know. one of the golf courses i play down here uses that as a hazard. now i know not to chase my golf ball down there.

thanks tho

 

[CDavid]

You are essentially correct. The only thing keeping this from being a Flamingo Crossings level disaster is the fact that there are a couple restaurants operating on the island formerly known to provide night time entertainment.

Is Flamingo Crossings really a disaster, or perhaps rather a case of the right thing happening for the wrong reasons? Walt Disney World is arguably better off without Flamingo Crossings.

 

[flavious27]

oh eww. i guess i didnt really want to know. one of the golf courses i play down here uses that as a hazard. now i know not to chase my golf ball down there.

thanks tho

Well this graphic goes over what is happening:

it is an unique way to reclaim water for irrigation.

 

[Mouse Detective]

Rapid Infiltration Basins, allow land treatment and disposal of wastewater. Applied wastewater percolates through the soil and the treated effluent drains via hydraulic pathways to groundwater or surface water.

Yes, they're Orange County landfills for garbage.

Keep watching. Uni does have an older skewing customer base but I bet they are experiencing problems too. I keep saying it, but I know that PI's profit margins were eaten up by the loss of customers elsewhere at DTD.

1) You bet they're experiencing what problems? The PI Blog recently quoted CityWalk management as saying all their clubs are profitable.
2) You know PI's profit margins were eaten up by customer losses elsewhere? How do you know that, what is your source?

 

[jt04]

I had no earthly idea the land stretched that far west. Now I must recalculate my entire 5 year plan.

Yes, they're Orange County landfills for garbage.




1) You bet they're experiencing what problems? The PI Blog recently quoted CityWalk management as saying all their clubs are profitable.
2) You know PI's profit margins were eaten up by customer losses elsewhere? How do you know that, what is your source?

If I had not answered these issues at least a half dozen times then I would be happy to do so again in detail. In short....

Bad business model. Counter productive to regular retail. Even if I gave you hard data and guest surveys you would claim it was being purposely skewed by some grand conspiracy. I know zealotry when I see it.

So where are we? Steve posted today that HW is moving forward. I offer valid reasons why it is slow going. Some choose to believe the SPI blog which features contributers who are in more denial than the AC folks were a couple years ago.

I choose to believe WDWMAgic and this sites proven track record. :wave:

 

[lazyboy97o]

The site that can't be named reconfirmed yesterday that it is happening. Sorry to dissapoint you.

Out of curiosity, can you give more of a hint which site you're referring to? I follow quite a few, seen no news other than Bob's update on Save PI.

Permission has explicitly been given that it is acceptable to post links to other Disney sites if it is to provide relevant information.

As I have mentioned a few times this in some ways is more complicated than DCA for example. At DCA Disney can close what they want when they want. They can put up construction walls as they see fit etc. HW has to balance the needs of third party tenants and I am sure that leads to tough negotiations at times. It is entirely possible Harley requested a delay in order to complete their move. Disney could probably play hardball but the fact Lego stayed indicates to me they would rather not offend anyone.

You just proved what you set out to disprove. If things were going so well, then Disney nor the tenants would be concerned about the disruption caused by construction occurring years after the spaces went vacant. It would be a momentary inconvenience that is not at all unusual to malls or lifestyle centers. Plenty of retail developments have undergone extensive expansion, remodeling, covering, uncovering, etc. while remaining open for business.

 

[menamechris]

You just proved what you set out to disprove.

This has been more the rule than the exception. Like a dog chasing its tail...

 

[jt04]

Permission has explicitly been given that it is acceptable to post links to other Disney sites if it is to provide relevant information.


You just proved what you set out to disprove. If things were going so well, then Disney nor the tenants would be concerned about the disruption caused by construction occurring years after the spaces went vacant. It would be a momentary inconvenience that is not at all unusual to malls or lifestyle centers. Plenty of retail developments have undergone extensive expansion, remodeling, covering, uncovering, etc. while remaining open for business.

I choose to believe WDWMagic and this sites proven track record.

 

[Mouse Detective]

I choose to believe WDWMagic and this sites proven track record.

Well I missed the story. Can you please provide a link to "Steve" and the "WDW Magic" story that says HW is moving forward with their plans, please?

 

[menamechris]

::crickets::

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Well I missed the story. Can you please provide a link to "Steve" and the "WDW Magic" story that says HW is moving forward with their plans, please?

Steve posted a thread today with some pics showing HW construction.

Sorry if I'm off the mark here, but I get the feeling a lot of people are rooting against HW almost solely because jt is rooting for it. I think that's the wrong approach. I'd like to see *something* creative and interesting in that spot. If that means re-opening night clubs, great! But I just doubt that's really likely. Disney doesn't tend to do 180's that dramatic and complete. If it's a choice between the HW concept art and...nothing....I'd much rather see HW work out.

(Besides, we all know if the HW plans collapse, jt will just claim he predicted it all anyway.)

Edit: I see you already found Steve's thread and have some questions about whether it actually shows progress. I'm not wading into that. :lol:

 

[wm49rs]

If I had not answered these issues at least a half dozen times then I would be happy to do so again in detail. In short....

Bad business model. Counter productive to regular retail. Even if I gave you hard data and guest surveys you would claim it was being purposely skewed by some grand conspiracy. I know zealotry when I see it.

So where are we? Steve posted today that HW is moving forward. I offer valid reasons why it is slow going. Some choose to believe the SPI blog which features contributers who are in more denial than the AC folks were a couple years ago.

I choose to believe WDWMAgic and this sites proven track record. :wave:

How about actually providing the supposed proof, and then letting others decide for themselves?

And as for the SPI blog, you've had no problem in the past using them as a point of reference when it suited your purposes. Don't start decrying them now simply because they're not toeing the HW line.....

Oh, and spare the "Steve doesn't like us posting from other sites" argument as well. He himself has stated it is appropriate.....

 

[flavious27]

I had no earthly idea the land stretched that far west. Now I must recalculate my entire 5 year plan.

Yeah, they own a good size chunk of land. There are 3 properties, totaling 500 acres bordering 545 that it would make sense for them to buy before any larger development to avoid the same sightline and buffer problems with bonnet creek. I don't think it would be smart for them to put a 5th gate out that way, too far away, but an adult only area would have space to grow if the idea takes off. Even if it does not, it is over a 1,000 acres to work with.

 

[TP2000]

At DCA Disney can close what they want when they want. They can put up construction walls as they see fit etc. HW has to balance the needs of third party tenants and I am sure that leads to tough negotiations at times. It is entirely possible Harley requested a delay in order to complete their move. Disney could probably play hardball but the fact Lego stayed indicates to me they would rather not offend anyone.

Now admittedly it's been a few years since I've bothered visiting Downtown Disney at WDW, but what would those two stores have to do with turning Pleasure Island into Hyperion Wharf? Isn't the Harley store in the Westside, and the Lego store in the Marketplace? Even if those two shops are on the Island, any landlord worth their jangling key ring would have a basic lease agreement that allows for construction or mall renovation to take place on nearby land without protest of the tenant.

If Mannequins and 8Trax and Rock N' Roll Beach Club and the Adventurers Club, etc. all closed years ago, what would stop Disney from getting Hyperion Wharf off the ground in their place if Landry's or any other restauranteur really did want to build and operate a restaurant (or six, or eight) in Hyperion Wharf?

I just checked YouTube and there's a 2 minute video from six months ago that is now a bit painful to watch. It features Keith Bradford as the President of Downtown Disney kickin' back for the camera and bragging about how cool Hyperion Wharf will be and how it will bring over a thousand new jobs to Central Florida.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsQNxIJw7fM

I'm thinking there's a pretty good story behind the scenes here involving some corporate intrigue and a healthy dose of drama and disappointment. Seriously, it's been six months since Keith Bradford put on his sport coat and announced this thing.... where is it?

 

[GymLeaderPhil]

There are currently negotiations underway for five new third-party restaurants at Downtown Disney. Predominately Hyperion Wharf.

I would also expect an announcement about the Virgin Megastore building soon.

 

[jt04]

Now admittedly it's been a few years since I've bothered visiting Downtown Disney at WDW, but what would those two stores have to do with turning Pleasure Island into Hyperion Wharf? Isn't the Harley store in the Westside, and the Lego store in the Marketplace? Even if those two shops are on the Island, any landlord worth their jangling key ring would have a basic lease agreement that allows for construction or mall renovation to take place on nearby land without protest of the tenant.

If Mannequins and 8Trax and Rock N' Roll Beach Club and the Adventurers Club, etc. all closed years ago, what would stop Disney from getting Hyperion Wharf off the ground in their place if Landry's or any other restauranteur really did want to build and operate a restaurant (or six, or eight) in Hyperion Wharf?

I just checked YouTube and there's a 2 minute video from six months ago that is now a bit painful to watch. It features Keith Bradford as the President of Downtown Disney kickin' back for the camera and bragging about how cool Hyperion Wharf will be and how it will bring over a thousand new jobs to Central Florida.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsQNxIJw7fM

I'm thinking there's a pretty good story behind the scenes here involving some corporate intrigue and a healthy dose of drama and disappointment. Seriously, it's been six months since Keith Bradford put on his sport coat and announced this thing.... where is it?

The only intrique is why folks keep asking the same question over and over then getting explanations and then asking the same questions. Now I know some people are literally incapable of hearing answers they don't want to hear. As close minded as it gets. Others are just transparantly trying to pry a statement out of Disney. Painfully transparent.

Harley is on the former PI and is moving to the WestEnd.

I mentioned Lego as an example that Disney is not playing hardball when it comes to the politics of the situation. It is obvious to me the priority is giving guests the best experience they can. And Disney said the transition would take a few years. Likely due to keeping all parties happy during the process.
The progress may be slow but all the recent moves and constant relocation of construction walls proves it is happening.

Our resident chicken little doom and gloom I demand it NOW because I am so special narcissists have never looked more foolish. :lol:

 

[jt04]

There are currently negotiations underway for five new third-party restaurants at Downtown Disney. Predominately Hyperion Wharf.

I would also expect an announcement about the Virgin Megastore building soon.

I really hope they have something great in mind for that venue. The architecture has an 'epic' feel to it. Larger than life. Perhaps a recently aquired business venture will be considered. I still think something Disney owned in every 'region' is the ideal way to go.

 

[xdan0920]

I hardly think the pictures of the lawn that appeared on WDWMagic yesterday confirm that anything is actually happening with PI. If anything, photos of grass show us that nothing is going on aside from the era of seed and mulch.