DTD: The hits just keep on coming...

jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
GothMickey said:
What you are talking about is a prject called Xanadu. It is a mega-mall shopping center, complete with an indoor ski slope. It is being built next to Izod Center, formerly Continental Airlines Arena, which is due to be knocked down in a few years. HOWEVER, Xanadu is having a bit of an issue right now. And that issue is:

THEY CANNOT GET 3RD PARTY VENDORS TO OPEN STORES IN XANADU, LEAVING AN ISSUE WITH THE OPENING OF THE "MALL."
Click to expand...


Sounds familiar,

Good thing Disney has the resources to "Imagineer" themselves out of that problem if necessary.
 
Lee

Lee

Adventurer
jt04 said:
I am just asking for some substance behind the "Disney conspiracy" claim.
Click to expand...
Proof...that's not easy considering that the people with direct knowledge of the situation are not willing to speak publically about it. Hence, I can't point to John Doe, VP of DTD and quote him on the subject.

All I can do is state with all honesty, that in conversations with multiple people who are employed both at DTD and TDO, I have been given substantial information regarding the situation.
Therefore, I can state with some certanity the following:
-Pleasure Island was very popular and profitable for the first decade plus of it's existence, and never reached the point of being a bad business decision.
-The island was opened to foot traffic a few years ago to increase guest flow between east and west sides. This required a restructuring of the pricing for entry to all the clubs. The result of this was that the clubs that were doing well, and the ones that were not, were now easily identified.
-At some point in the recent past, the interest of dance clubs waned, leaving the main draws at PI as the AC and CW, which both continued to thrive. Fewer guests going to the dance clubs meant less profit in those clubs, making them ripe for conversion to third-party businesses.
-Since the opeining of the island to foot traffic, there was indeed an uncomfortable situation where families with children wandered into the middle of an adult-oriented location. This was a result of the removal of the gates, and Disney found themselves with a problem - try to prevent kids from going into that area or replacing the gates and making guests walk around PI. They never came up with a workable solution.
-The decision was made by Disney to close the dance clubs, and make the spaces available for third-parties to come in and open their own operations. This was purely a financial decision. Those clubs, while popular, were expensive to run. Burbank's current mindset of "make money at all costs" led to the decision to try to fill the spaces with third-party operations who would pay very high rent to be at DTD. No restrictions at all were placed on the types of businesses that were allowed. (In other words, there was no intention to focus on only family-friendly locations.)
-There was never an intention to try to cater more to the family crowd, as they feel that they are doing that already, all across the property.
-The original plan was to keep CW and AC as stand alone clubs, since they were both capable of running well and making a profit on their own merits. The decision to close them as well came fairly late in the process, and was purely a result of management deciding it was a better move to just turn over the whole island to third-parties.
-When these decisions were finally made, surveys were taken of guests. These surveys were designed to achieve a desired result, one that would justify the decision to close the island. None of the surveys asked if the guests liked the PI clubs. None of them asked if the guests thought Disney should pull the clubs in favor of more family oriented locations. The surveys only asked if guests would like to see more shopping and dining locations at DTD. Naturally, the guests said "Sure", without knowing that their response would used to justify the closing of the clubs. No question existed that said anything like "Should Disney close the PI clubs to make room for more shopping and dining, or should they keep the clubs and just add the other stuff." Too many guests would choose to have both, so that question was never asked.
-Since the closure last year, there has been a tremendous lack of interest on the part of the potential third-party operators. Hence the area turning into a ghost town. The current occupants are not happy with the situation, and some are encouraging management to reopen some clubs to increase traffic to the island.
-It is now seen in many circles as a bad move to close the whole island at once, though there were some accounting advantages to doing it that way. If it were done over, they would only close locations that had signed leases from third-parties, be they stores, restaurants, bars or clubs. AC and CW would still be open.

Ok...fingers are tired of typing. Once and for all...the closure of PI was purely motivated by the idea of making an easy profit from third-party operators. It had nothing to do with making it more family friendly, or a "bold, new vision" that would result in a makeover into anything else than what it now is.
None of this is my opinion. None of this is the result of my personal feelings one way or the other. This is not subjective, it is how things are.
The world is not flat, no matter how much some here would like to convince others that it is based purely on their own opinion and personal tastes.

Now then...:snore:
 
EpcotServo

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
Proof...that's not easy considering that the people with direct knowledge of the situation are not willing to speak publically about it. Hence, I can't point to John Doe, VP of DTD and quote him on the subject.

All I can do is state with all honesty, that in conversations with multiple people who are employed both at DTD and TDO, I have been given substantial information regarding the situation.
Therefore, I can state with some certanity the following:
-Pleasure Island was very popular and profitable for the first decade plus of it's existence, and never reached the point of being a bad business decision.
-The island was opened to foot traffic a few years ago to increase guest flow between east and west sides. This required a restructuring of the pricing for entry to all the clubs. The result of this was that the clubs that were doing well, and the ones that were not, were now easily identified.
-At some point in the recent past, the interest of dance clubs waned, leaving the main draws at PI as the AC and CW, which both continued to thrive. Fewer guests going to the dance clubs meant less profit in those clubs, making them ripe for conversion to third-party businesses.
-Since the opeining of the island to foot traffic, there was indeed an uncomfortable situation where families with children wandered into the middle of an adult-oriented location. This was a result of the removal of the gates, and Disney found themselves with a problem - try to prevent kids from going into that area or replacing the gates and making guests walk around PI. They never came up with a workable solution.
-The decision was made by Disney to close the dance clubs, and make the spaces available for third-parties to come in and open their own operations. This was purely a financial decision. Those clubs, while popular, were expensive to run. Burbank's current mindset of "make money at all costs" led to the decision to try to fill the spaces with third-party operations who would pay very high rent to be at DTD. No restrictions at all were placed on the types of businesses that were allowed. (In other words, there was no intention to focus on only family-friendly locations.)
-There was never an intention to try to cater more to the family crowd, as they feel that they are doing that already, all across the property.
-The original plan was to keep CW and AC as stand alone clubs, since they were both capable of running well and making a profit on their own merits. The decision to close them as well came fairly late in the process, and was purely a result of management deciding it was a better move to just turn over the whole island to third-parties.
-When these decisions were finally made, surveys were taken of guests. These surveys were designed to achieve a desired result, one that would justify the decision to close the island. None of the surveys asked if the guests liked the PI clubs. None of them asked if the guests thought Disney should pull the clubs in favor of more family oriented locations. The surveys only asked if guests would like to see more shopping and dining locations at DTD. Naturally, the guests said "Sure", without knowing that their response would used to justify the closing of the clubs. No question existed that said anything like "Should Disney close the PI clubs to make room for more shopping and dining, or should they keep the clubs and just add the other stuff." Too many guests would choose to have both, so that question was never asked.
-Since the closure last year, there has been a tremendous lack of interest on the part of the potential third-party operators. Hence the area turning into a ghost town. The current occupants are not happy with the situation, and some are encouraging management to reopen some clubs to increase traffic to the island.
-It is now seen in many circles as a bad move to close the whole island at once, though there were some accounting advantages to doing it that way. If it were done over, they would only close locations that had signed leases from third-parties, be they stores, restaurants, bars or clubs. AC and CW would still be open.

Ok...fingers are tired of typing. Once and for all...the closure of PI was purely motivated by the idea of making an easy profit from third-party operators. It had nothing to do with making it more family friendly, or a "bold, new vision" that would result in a makeover into anything else than what it now is.
None of this is my opinion. None of this is the result of my personal feelings one way or the other. This is not subjective, it is how things are.
The world is not flat, no matter how much some here would like to convince others that it is based purely on their own opinion and personal tastes.

Now then...:snore:
Click to expand...







:sohappy:

Somebody close the thread now, glad that's all resolved.
:snore:
 
EPCOT Explorer

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
jt04 said:
In those days of hard selling the "devil's juice" (as PN would say) at Pleasure Island there were some horrific accicents in the PI area involving people departing the festivities. But I think it would be in bad taste to dredge up the details. I don't blame Disney except as far as they were really pushing alcohol hard in those days.
Click to expand...
C'mon....That's a poor argument. People have to be responsible for themselves..

jt04 said:
I prefer to call it "give and take" :lol:

If you watch what I post I rarely, if ever, "attack" someone unless I am "attacked" first. I love to have my ideas challanged, but baseless personal cheap shots do nothing to advance the conversation. But if someone wants to play the "go personal" card I can do that too.

I think Steve recognizes this in me which is why he does not ban me. I just have strong opinions and I will never apologize for it.

Enough about me.

Could someone please provide the details on the grand Disney conspiracy to destroy PI story? Otherwise I am left to believe it's just a bunch of hoopla! :p
Click to expand...
You are going to the dark side, jt.;):D
MichWolv said:
Disagree. PI died because it was poorly executed, not because it was a poor idea.
Click to expand...
In the end of it's time, yes. The beginning of it was well thought out...
Lee said:
Proof...that's not easy considering that the people with direct knowledge of the situation are not willing to speak publically about it. Hence, I can't point to John Doe, VP of DTD and quote him on the subject.

All I can do is state with all honesty, that in conversations with multiple people who are employed both at DTD and TDO, I have been given substantial information regarding the situation.
Therefore, I can state with some certanity the following:
-Pleasure Island was very popular and profitable for the first decade plus of it's existence, and never reached the point of being a bad business decision.
-The island was opened to foot traffic a few years ago to increase guest flow between east and west sides. This required a restructuring of the pricing for entry to all the clubs. The result of this was that the clubs that were doing well, and the ones that were not, were now easily identified.
-At some point in the recent past, the interest of dance clubs waned, leaving the main draws at PI as the AC and CW, which both continued to thrive. Fewer guests going to the dance clubs meant less profit in those clubs, making them ripe for conversion to third-party businesses.
-Since the opeining of the island to foot traffic, there was indeed an uncomfortable situation where families with children wandered into the middle of an adult-oriented location. This was a result of the removal of the gates, and Disney found themselves with a problem - try to prevent kids from going into that area or replacing the gates and making guests walk around PI. They never came up with a workable solution.
-The decision was made by Disney to close the dance clubs, and make the spaces available for third-parties to come in and open their own operations. This was purely a financial decision. Those clubs, while popular, were expensive to run. Burbank's current mindset of "make money at all costs" led to the decision to try to fill the spaces with third-party operations who would pay very high rent to be at DTD. No restrictions at all were placed on the types of businesses that were allowed. (In other words, there was no intention to focus on only family-friendly locations.)
-There was never an intention to try to cater more to the family crowd, as they feel that they are doing that already, all across the property.
-The original plan was to keep CW and AC as stand alone clubs, since they were both capable of running well and making a profit on their own merits. The decision to close them as well came fairly late in the process, and was purely a result of management deciding it was a better move to just turn over the whole island to third-parties.
-When these decisions were finally made, surveys were taken of guests. These surveys were designed to achieve a desired result, one that would justify the decision to close the island. None of the surveys asked if the guests liked the PI clubs. None of them asked if the guests thought Disney should pull the clubs in favor of more family oriented locations. The surveys only asked if guests would like to see more shopping and dining locations at DTD. Naturally, the guests said "Sure", without knowing that their response would used to justify the closing of the clubs. No question existed that said anything like "Should Disney close the PI clubs to make room for more shopping and dining, or should they keep the clubs and just add the other stuff." Too many guests would choose to have both, so that question was never asked.
-Since the closure last year, there has been a tremendous lack of interest on the part of the potential third-party operators. Hence the area turning into a ghost town. The current occupants are not happy with the situation, and some are encouraging management to reopen some clubs to increase traffic to the island.
-It is now seen in many circles as a bad move to close the whole island at once, though there were some accounting advantages to doing it that way. If it were done over, they would only close locations that had signed leases from third-parties, be they stores, restaurants, bars or clubs. AC and CW would still be open.

Ok...fingers are tired of typing. Once and for all...the closure of PI was purely motivated by the idea of making an easy profit from third-party operators. It had nothing to do with making it more family friendly, or a "bold, new vision" that would result in a makeover into anything else than what it now is.
None of this is my opinion. None of this is the result of my personal feelings one way or the other. This is not subjective, it is how things are.
The world is not flat, no matter how much some here would like to convince others that it is based purely on their own opinion and personal tastes.

Now then...:snore:
Click to expand...

THREAD WON.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
Proof...that's not easy considering that the people with direct knowledge of the situation are not willing to speak publically about it. Hence, I can't point to John Doe, VP of DTD and quote him on the subject.

All I can do is state with all honesty, that in conversations with multiple people who are employed both at DTD and TDO, I have been given substantial information regarding the situation.
Therefore, I can state with some certanity the following:
-Pleasure Island was very popular and profitable for the first decade plus of it's existence, and never reached the point of being a bad business decision.
-The island was opened to foot traffic a few years ago to increase guest flow between east and west sides. This required a restructuring of the pricing for entry to all the clubs. The result of this was that the clubs that were doing well, and the ones that were not, were now easily identified.
-At some point in the recent past, the interest of dance clubs waned, leaving the main draws at PI as the AC and CW, which both continued to thrive. Fewer guests going to the dance clubs meant less profit in those clubs, making them ripe for conversion to third-party businesses.
-Since the opeining of the island to foot traffic, there was indeed an uncomfortable situation where families with children wandered into the middle of an adult-oriented location. This was a result of the removal of the gates, and Disney found themselves with a problem - try to prevent kids from going into that area or replacing the gates and making guests walk around PI. They never came up with a workable solution.
-The decision was made by Disney to close the dance clubs, and make the spaces available for third-parties to come in and open their own operations. This was purely a financial decision. Those clubs, while popular, were expensive to run. Burbank's current mindset of "make money at all costs" led to the decision to try to fill the spaces with third-party operations who would pay very high rent to be at DTD. No restrictions at all were placed on the types of businesses that were allowed. (In other words, there was no intention to focus on only family-friendly locations.)
-There was never an intention to try to cater more to the family crowd, as they feel that they are doing that already, all across the property.
-The original plan was to keep CW and AC as stand alone clubs, since they were both capable of running well and making a profit on their own merits. The decision to close them as well came fairly late in the process, and was purely a result of management deciding it was a better move to just turn over the whole island to third-parties.
-When these decisions were finally made, surveys were taken of guests. These surveys were designed to achieve a desired result, one that would justify the decision to close the island. None of the surveys asked if the guests liked the PI clubs. None of them asked if the guests thought Disney should pull the clubs in favor of more family oriented locations. The surveys only asked if guests would like to see more shopping and dining locations at DTD. Naturally, the guests said "Sure", without knowing that their response would used to justify the closing of the clubs. No question existed that said anything like "Should Disney close the PI clubs to make room for more shopping and dining, or should they keep the clubs and just add the other stuff." Too many guests would choose to have both, so that question was never asked.
-Since the closure last year, there has been a tremendous lack of interest on the part of the potential third-party operators. Hence the area turning into a ghost town. The current occupants are not happy with the situation, and some are encouraging management to reopen some clubs to increase traffic to the island.
-It is now seen in many circles as a bad move to close the whole island at once, though there were some accounting advantages to doing it that way. If it were done over, they would only close locations that had signed leases from third-parties, be they stores, restaurants, bars or clubs. AC and CW would still be open.

Ok...fingers are tired of typing. Once and for all...the closure of PI was purely motivated by the idea of making an easy profit from third-party operators. It had nothing to do with making it more family friendly, or a "bold, new vision" that would result in a makeover into anything else than what it now is.
None of this is my opinion. None of this is the result of my personal feelings one way or the other. This is not subjective, it is how things are.
The world is not flat, no matter how much some here would like to convince others that it is based purely on their own opinion and personal tastes.

Now then...:snore:
Click to expand...


Sorry Lee, I'm not doubting you were told this, but it just doesn't ring true to me. Something about it sounds like a huge CYA with a heavy dose of finger pointing on top of that. Perhaps we will never really know. Until someone explains it officially I'll stick with my theory.
 
MousDad

MousDad

New Member
jt04 said:
Waiting patiently...

and waiting, and waiting, and waiting,,,,,,

:snore:
Click to expand...

180px-GreatPumpkin.jpg
 
Lee

Lee

Adventurer
jt04 said:
Waiting patiently...
and waiting, and waiting, and waiting,,,,,,
:snore:
Click to expand...
No...you got it. You just don't like what it was.:rolleyes:
This will never be part of an official statement from Disney. Anecdotal, second-hand information is all we have, and likely ever have.
Doesn't make it not true.....'cause it is.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
Pumbas Nakasak said:
Just relax...................

3244293721_7c4d14d91f.jpg


Just a little pin prick..............
Click to expand...

That may actually be necessary for those believing the AC is coming back. Seriously. :lookaroun


Of course the Great Pumpkin/Linus joke applies very well to them too. You are very clever mousedad. :ROFLOL:
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
No...you got it. You just don't like what it was.:rolleyes:
This will never be part of an official statement from Disney. Anecdotal, second-hand information is all we have, and likely ever have.
Doesn't make it not true.....'cause it is.
Click to expand...

Go to sleep, you need it. I'll post it when they announce the return of the "Great AC".
 
EPCOT Explorer

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
jt04 said:
Sorry Lee, I'm not doubting you were told this, but it just doesn't ring true to me. Something about it sounds like a huge CYA with a heavy dose of finger pointing on top of that. Perhaps we will never really know. Until someone explains it officially I'll stick with my theory.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't doubt Lee...
 

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