Downtown Disney update

[Jim Handy]

Well stated. I think Iger/Staggs/Rasulo know exactly what's going on, and the sheer dollar value of what needs to be done to just maintain infrastructure, let alone continue to enhance/improve the product at WDW just keep up with the times and compete, is frightening. It's many billions of dollars. So long at things can moderately coast along during their tenure, they are fine with it, and they will pass the WDW mess along to the next management team who will have to deal with it (or continue to ignore it...hope not).

None of them have the vision, passion, or care for the product or the guts to actually do anything like a "bold, new vision." They are simple "managers" in the truest sense.

Iger had some knowledge from his previous position in Disney but it really hit him when he became CEO and essentially was given a list of what WDW needed. Staggs has been around since 1990 when Disney was at the top of its game, so I expected more out of him and he was also well aware of what WDW needs. Jay knew but was too busy with his reorganization.

Let's never forget the blatant lie posted by Tom Staggs on the Disney parks blog following the D23 Expo.

Thanks to all of you for your responses. Your passion, energy and affection for our parks and resorts is the reason we do what we do so I appreciate your feedback. I know many of you were hoping for announcements regarding new projects from Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, especially at Walt Disney World Resort, so I wanted to take a moment to address those comments.​

The projects we’ve already announced represent the largest period of growth ever in Disney Parks’ history. We’re working hard to create new and exciting experiences for our guests around the world and while the timing isn’t always right to announce another big project, we like to use opportunities like the D23 Expo to update fans like you on the great progress we’re making. We have several incredible projects currently in the works and look forward to sharing more information with all of you in the weeks and months ahead, including new details regarding Downtown Disney in Florida.​

Okay, so he gave us Avatar not long after this. But for some reason at the time he mentioned Downtown Disney. We are coming in on one year since he made those comments. No Downtown Disney!
http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2011/08/special-thanks-to-d23-expo-attendees/

 

[baymenxpac]

If he is a true journalist he has many sources.

OrSen has been very quiet lately about WDW. Makes me suspicious.

have you ever seen the episode of the west wing where josh lyman finds his own fan site, posts on it, and then sees all the depravity of online message boards at work? if not, go check it out. then you'll see what reading your posts are like to the average person.

you go on and on about other people's "talking points" (again, as a real PR executive, i find that nauseating), but you toe the company line for disney on everything. dude, it's exhausting. it's okay to say you're an eternal disney optimist, but to come out and say, "I don't deal in 'likleyhoods' (sic) or subjective opinions drenched with personal agandas (sic). I deal with the reality of the situation as it presents itself," is borderline insane.

i also need get a little miffed when you give lee a hard time, which you did most notably upon the initial avatar announcement and have been doing this morning. he's a real insider that generously shares what he knows, just like raven, marni, steve, and others. why are you busting his chops? how about realizing that what we get on here is just a microscopic peak into the inner workings of an international conglomerate and own up to the fact that you can't just infer your way into sounding smart?

anyway, rant over. if we do get something MUCH bigger for DTD, i'll be stoked. until then, i'll temper my expectations.

 

[71jason]

I agree with you in some ways. Any major new expansion would require more entertainment options. Certainly a PG-13 rated comedy club would be a must. A return of something like an AC would work. Personally I would like to see the HDD relocate to DTD from FW. More live acts at HoB and Bongos etc. Something like this will be necessary. Bongos, HoB and Splitsville have or will have dancing so I have no idea where you get the idea those do not exist.

HoB isn't really set up for more live acts--it's essentially a restaurant. And the only dancing is late on Sunday night, with a 25 and under crowd that caters almost exlusively to locals. And I thought we agreed more entertainment isn't coming if there's no admission charge--same reason Frankie and the West End Boys and the fireworks got pink-slipped, WDW doesn't want free competition for its $90-a-day parks.

And other than entertainment, what would work? Again, DTD is maxed out on dining and shopping (except quick serve, and I don't foresee PI becoming a mall food court). The market is saturated, The same could be said for any huge expansion--if Raglan is frequently a walk-up now, how bad would it be with 10 more competitors?

 

[71jason]

Well I see you have all your talking points down. I am sure you have earned your AC patch to sew on your new AC jacket.

You do realize PI was always far more than the AC, online fanboi memories to the contrary not withstanding. More people entered 8-Trax between 10:16 and 10:28 p.m. than went in the AC all night.

Oh, and Kungaloosh!

 

[Disnee4Me]

I would love to see a new theater built at DTD where they could perform the Disney musicals that currently are not on Broadway, such as Aida, Tarzan or Little Mermaid. Also a theater where you can actually see vintage Disney movies. Seeing them in my own home on tv is one thing, but on a big screen would be spectacular. Also, a really nice 1930's or 1940's jazz club, themed around Jessica Rabbit. And last a family oriented dinner/stage show of the Mickey Mouse Club. And maybe a TRON dance club, for those younger than myself, lol.

Wow ... these are all great ideas. Love them all and it would be a great addition to DTD or maybe a whole seperate area?

 

[jt04]

HoB isn't really set up for more live acts--it's essentially a restaurant. And the only dancing is late on Sunday night, with a 25 and under crowd that caters almost exlusively to locals. And I thought we agreed more entertainment isn't coming if there's no admission charge--same reason Frankie and the West End Boys and the fireworks got pink-slipped, WDW doesn't want free competition for its $90-a-day parks.

And other than entertainment, what would work? Again, DTD is maxed out on dining and shopping (except quick serve, and I don't foresee PI becoming a mall food court). The market is saturated, The same could be said for any huge expansion--if Raglan is frequently a walk-up now, how bad would it be with 10 more competitors?

It may be maxed out on themed eateries but there are a lot of cusines not featured yet that people love. People love to stroll after dining and more third party shops seem viable to me. Entertainment needs to be third party except for the possibility of moving the HDD there. All of this requires new parking first though.

You do realize PI was always far more than the AC, online fanboi memories to the contrary not withstanding. More people entered 8-Trax between 10:16 and 10:28 p.m. than went in the AC all night.

Oh, and Kungaloosh!

Yes but those venues and the way PI operated also drove people away.

Thanks for the Kungaloosh though.

 

[jt04]

have you ever seen the episode of the west wing where josh lyman finds his own fan site, posts on it, and then sees all the depravity of online message boards at work? if not, go check it out. then you'll see what reading your posts are like to the average person.

you go on and on about other people's "talking points" (again, as a real PR executive, i find that nauseating), but you toe the company line for disney on everything. dude, it's exhausting. it's okay to say you're an eternal disney optimist, but to come out and say, "I don't deal in 'likleyhoods' (sic) or subjective opinions drenched with personal agandas (sic). I deal with the reality of the situation as it presents itself," is borderline insane.

i also need get a little miffed when you give lee a hard time, which you did most notably upon the initial avatar announcement and have been doing this morning. he's a real insider that generously shares what he knows, just like raven, marni, steve, and others. why are you busting his chops? how about realizing that what we get on here is just a microscopic peak into the inner workings of an international conglomerate and own up to the fact that you can't just infer your way into sounding smart?

anyway, rant over. if we do get something MUCH bigger for DTD, i'll be stoked. until then, i'll temper my expectations.

You would have had a point if I did always "toe the company line". But I always talk about how they can do things better.

Lee knows I write with a bit of jest behind everything. I mean we aren't talking about war and famine here. It is Disney!

Never saw an episode of West Wing and never will. There are literally hundreds of popular TV series that came and went that I never saw a single episode of. You would be stunned at the list of shows I have never seen. I do like the stuff Kiefer Sutherland chooses to star in. That I will watch.

So if you want to give me an object lesson in life choose a classic movie next time. Thank you.

 

[asianway]

I think PI isn't the only think left out in the sun too long ...

Someone might wanna 'splain to JT that Disney will likely have most of the Iger, Staggs, Rasulo management team gone by the end of 2013 or start of 2014. Gone. So, I'm guessing he's looking into that crystal ball (very popular in New Mexico I am told) and talking about the guys (and gal if my guess is correct) who will be taking over then?

Not Meg...anything but that...

 

[menamechris]

Let's never forget the blatant lie posted by Tom Staggs on the Disney parks blog following the D23 Expo.

Okay, so he gave us Avatar not long after this. But for some reason at the time he mentioned Downtown Disney. We are coming in on one year since he made those comments. No Downtown Disney!
http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2011/08/special-thanks-to-d23-expo-attendees/

Yep. Amazing what some will say to settle the masses. And it certainly worked.... The time never seems to be right to announce anything but DVC's for WDW.

 

[menamechris]

And other than entertainment, what would work? Again, DTD is maxed out on dining and shopping (except quick serve, and I don't foresee PI becoming a mall food court). The market is saturated, The same could be said for any huge expansion--if Raglan is frequently a walk-up now, how bad would it be with 10 more competitors?

This is exactly what I don't understand. And it honestly concerns me. I have a feeling Disney is going to once again roll out some massive plan for DTD, but the bottom line is that if it is just more of the same (restaurants and mall shops), there is really no point in doing anything. They might as well leave it the way it is.

It needs to be a gated area. This could be a win-win for Disney. They will be able to close all the parks except MK fairly early (9ish) and people will migrate over and use their "Waterparks and More" option on their ticket for whatever experience they have there. But the only reason I can think of for the stalling for YEARS on this is that Disney still wants third parties - and third parties just aren't interested.

 

[John]

I really like all of our resident "insiders".... I really do. Steve, Marni, Lee, Raven and 74. You guys ROCK! But, yes there is a but. I am exausted over the DTD issue. Most of you said that something is brewing at our beloved outdoor mall with ears. Saying something is in the works....is like saying its going to rain.....of course it is...just when? what day? If you have been a real fan of WDW this is just par for the course. I am not trying to bash you guys for giveing us what you can....it isnt your fault. The bottom line is the fault lies in Burbank. I dont even think its TDO anymore. There is no way TDO wants to leave that much money on the table for that long period of time. Does Burbank understand DTD? or has Burbank recieved bad info on DTD from the minions? MY money is on the latter.

SO now we are in DTD pergatory.....in limbo. YESSSSSS JT I know Splitsville will be opening soon. I have been thinking about our latest addition to DTD. The early press has said it will have a lounge....where it will provide adult beverages....Even have some music time to time. Is this the family fun we are talking about when it comes to Disney? A bunch of drunk adults throwing around 15 lb balls. Cussing because they dont get the 7-10 split? Personally I dont like it when alcohol and kids are mixed. To much a recipe for trouble.....Am I trying to poo poo Splitsville....absolutely not. Just making an observation. I wouldnt want to take my children there after 9:00. Most parents wont, but you know there will be those that will. Maybe there should be sometype of curfew....like 10:00. Then its adults only....I think that might help satisfy SOME of that adult entertainment DTD is lacking.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't deal in 'likleyhoods' or subjective opinions drenched with personal agandas. I deal with the reality of the situation as it presents itself. And I have said more times than I can count that after DCA was finished they would turn more attention back to WDW. I stand by that. The other attractions in Central Florida are forcing the issue if there were some going wobbly.

Nothing subjective being offered. Just objective talk about what I know is going on inside Disney ... as to personal agenda, I must ask (since you and others bring this up from time to time) what exactly do you feel my agenda was in posting the above? Do you think I'm up for Iger's job? Do you think I'd even want it?

I can't imagine living in a world where my cynacism completely blinded me to the truth. It must be hell getting out of bed every day. No wonder you spend so much time going to amusement parks and watching Pee Wee's big top reruns.

Have you tried Yoga?

Find me cynical, do you? Realist, says I. ... and I deal in facts and not beliefs. It can be hell getting out of bed, especially when I have to do it early, but you do what you have to. ... and while I know WDW ain't what she once was, i would never refer to it as an amusement park. But I do love Pee Wee!

Oh, and yoga is something you do on the west coast ... in the morning before Starbucks and telecommuting and picking up the organic foods at Trader Joe's for Friday's dinner, maybe a nice bottle of wine or two, then it's In N Out followed by the dry cleaner ... maybe pop into DL at 3 or 4 p.m.

Unfortunately, I'm in FL much of the time. You've seen the average WDW guest driving an ECV while chomping on a turkey leg. You think many folks do yoga here (SoBe aside)?

 

[WDW1974]

Please then back-up your "facts" with some sort of independent verifiable source. As much as I appreciate Lee and Martin, they really are not independent. Someone like Jason Garcia would qualify.

Lee and Martin not independent?!? I wasn't aware they were in business together. Did I miss that? Or do you believe they are secret plants for WDI?

Jason Garcia isn't worth much, I'm afraid. He writes very weak pieces, largely from press releases. He doesn't understand enterprise reporting and he is content to write the easy stuff. I get the feeling he doesn't have any significant sources, which astounds me after what ... 3-4 years on the beat. ... But I know nothing about media.

Avatar is in the pipeline so again you are on this ice with your subjective opinions.

I advise you stop digging before you reach the point you can't climb out.

You giving advice on digging out of holes? That's classic, JT. You boy, are a hoot. That's what you are!

 

[WDW1974]

Downtown Disney is still very much in development. No specifics yet, but it is going to be a much bigger project than anything that was previously announced.

I'll believe it when I see it under construction ... and real construction. Not the Flamingo Crossing type or the last 4-5 years of absolutely nothing of substance at TSFKaPI.

I know they have plans. We all have plans, though!

 

[Lee]

Do you think I'm up for Iger's job? Do you think I'd even want it?

Up for it? No.
Want it? Maybe, but not as much as you want Staggs'. Either one, you'd get my vote.

(1.785649)

 

[menamechris]

Jason Garcia isn't worth much, I'm afraid. He writes very weak pieces, largely from press releases. He doesn't understand enterprise reporting and he is content to write the easy stuff. I get the feeling he doesn't have any significant sources, which astounds me after what ... 3-4 years on the beat. ... But I know nothing about media.

Jason is walking the fine line of wanting to edgy enough that the Sentinel sees his worth on the payroll (Kristin Ford kissed Disney's right out of the newsroom), but also wanting to ensure that he can keep his contacts at Disney and still get the interviews and quotes (which is also key to keeping his job). I don't know how investigative and "hardball" he wants to be anyways. Its a pretty peach job if you like entertainment and attractions.

 

[WDW1974]

Only a certain spirit is allowed to speak in absolutes around here. The rest of us mortals have to be very specific. Oh, to see things from his perch......

Allowed? This is America, even if we do have some censorship here in the form of community standards and moderators. I speak in absolutes when I absolutely know what I am speaking of. You speak in absolutes when you absolutely are just throwing stuff against a cyberwall and waiting to see what sticks.

But you are right, you'll never have my perch ... and it is often a lofty one ...

 

[John]

Unfortunately, I'm in FL much of the time. You've seen the average WDW guest driving an ECV while chomping on a turkey leg. You don't think many folks do yoga here (SoBe aside)?

Thats funny right there....I dont care who you are!

 

[Californian Elitist]

Oh, and yoga is something you do on the west coast ... in the morning before Starbucks and telecommuting and picking up the organic foods at Trader Joe's for Friday's dinner, maybe a nice bottle of wine or two, then it's In N Out followed by the dry cleaner ... maybe pop into DL at 3 or 4 p.m.

So very accurate. Except I go to Coffee Bean, not Starbucks. LOL have you lived here in California before??? And In N Out sounds so amazing right now.

 

[menamechris]

(1.785649)

Any hint?