Doubting Avatar

[danlb_2000]

This is a ludicrous claim. The movie wouldn't have made as much as it did if it didn't pull in entire families by the bus load. It also pulled in more families than every single Potter movie individually. Logic fail.

Just because a movie was high grossing, doesn't mean it was drawing the whole family. Titanic was number one (not adjusted for inflation) but I doubt that was a big family draw, it's money came for a high level of repeat customers. And what about Dark Knight at number four? There's a family friendly movie for you.

By it's second theatrical run, I'm pretty sure everyone know Star Wars is here to stay. Avatar did the same with its initial run. The buzz about these sequels today is massive. The film also got good ratings from critics and audiences. They liked the story and characters.

I disagree with this. A year after Star Wars came out you could probably go up to almost anyone on the street, say the name of one of the lead characters and most people would probably know who you were talking about. As for Avatar, don't get me wrong I really liked the movie, I doubt you could find to many people who really remember the characters, even amongst people who saw it. I just didn't seem to enter the cultural consciousness like Star Wars and Harry Potter did. Maybe that will change with the more movies, but that is yet to be seen.

I also don't see massive buzz about the sequels. Checking Google news, there are 62 articles today about the Avatar sequels. Picking a random piece of entertainment news to compare with, a casting rumor for the next Hunger Games movie, 104 articles. Not scientific, but if the buzz was massive I would expect more media coverage.

 

[Cybercat]

I watch movies but I didn't go to see it. I did attempt to watch it on DVD but fell asleep 20 minutes in. Needless to say I won't be seeing Avatar 2, 3 or 4 and if Avatarland happens, I have no intention of setting foot in it.

First of all, I don't believe any of this. So looking forward to seeing you in Avatarland. Secondly, why do you think you are more important than millions and millions of other people? I could find some guy that didn't watch the Super Bowl. Does that mean they should cancel the Super Bowl next year because he doesn't like football? Do you realize what the point of a business is?

Kidified muck? There wouldn't have been a Disneyland or WDW if it hadn't been for the success of what you call "kidified muck".

Yup I said it. The truth stings. As much as you people despise Avatar, I despise campy dreck like Finding Nemo and Beauty and the Beast more. I like WDW for the immesrive theme park experience. I don't have to like the films that were used as its basis.

 

[WDW1974]

I watch movies but I didn't go to see it. I did attempt to watch it on DVD but fell asleep 20 minutes in. Needless to say I won't be seeing Avatar 2, 3 or 4 and if Avatarland happens, I have no intention of setting foot in it.

Never say never, Frank ... you may wind up crashing a plane on Pandora and wind up spending six seasons there. On a plane coming back from Europe is actually when I saw Avatar and I couldn't believe how bored I was (yeah, I know ... the amazing in theater 3D would have made up for the cardboard characters, godawful dialog and paper thin and derivative storyline).

Doesn't mean I won't set foot there if and when it opens (at this point, you're looking at 2017 at the earliest!)

BTW, some goober here actually thinks that I think you are a pilot from a fictional TV series that I loved ... how amusing is that?

Kidified muck? There wouldn't have been a Disneyland or WDW if it hadn't been for the success of what you call "kidified muck".

I wouldn't even bother ... it's summer and that means kid season and troll season. And this one is obnoxious beyond all get out, so hopefully he'll do exactly that ... likely after flaming (what else for fanbois?) out spectacularly first.

Oh, and why exactly do we have multiple threads about Avatar going when nothing is happening? Is this designed to keep us from realizing that nothing is happening at WDW while DL just had a major atttraction approved, after a few billion dolllars worth of investment in both parksover the last 6-7 years? (Oops, did I just let one slip out again? I didn't even eat a burrito and I'm talking about new attractions coming to parks in Anaheim. Think it's time to move back to the better coast!)

Ah, work calls ... back later ... maybe ... or not...

 

[FrankLapidus]

First of all, I don't believe any of this. So looking forward to seeing you in Avatarland.

I can guarantee you that you 100% will not . I don't like James Cameron in general, I personally find his films overhyped and primarily style over substance. I don't want to complain about Avatarland,if it happens then it happens, but I have no intention of ever setting foot in it out of personal choice.

Secondly, why do you think you are more important than millions and millions of other people?

When did I say I thought that? You made a comment that everyone who goes to see movies went to see Avatar and I was just pointing out that I must have been the exception to that rule. In a short space of time you really have proven to be a very pleasant individual.

Yup I said it. The truth stings. As much as you people despise Avatar, I despise campy dreck like Finding Nemo and Beauty and the Beast more. I like WDW for the immesrive theme park experience. I don't have to like the films that were used as its basis.

Okay, if that's your opinion then fine.

 

[muse1983]

I think the general consensus here is that the majority of us don't care for avatar too much as a film and don't see it leaving a legacy that necessarily gives it the lasting appeal for its own land. However I think that most of us will agree that regardless, we are in a wait and see period hoping that the end product is astounding regardless of what the theme is. I don't exactly see anyone up in arms towards you when you said that you hate the great majority of the films that wdw utilizes in the parks ( which is odd to hate everything with Disney animation yet still go to the park...universal is right down the street ). Cybercat...take a deep breath, chill out and enjoy the forums.

 

[Taylor]

First of all, I don't believe any of this. So looking forward to seeing you in Avatarland. Secondly, why do you think you are more important than millions and millions of other people? I could find some guy that didn't watch the Super Bowl. Does that mean they should cancel the Super Bowl next year because he doesn't like football? Do you realize what the point of a business is?



Yup I said it. The truth stings. As much as you people despise Avatar, I despise campy dreck like Finding Nemo and Beauty and the Beast more. I like WDW for the immesrive theme park experience. I don't have to like the films that were used as its basis.

You do realize beauty and the Beast and nemo are consistently on Top 10 animated movie list by some of the most respected guys in the business. Heck I'm 16 and I'd rather watch toy story over any R rated movie. I agree with you on avatar land but your movie taste I respectfully disagree

 

[FrankLapidus]

Never say never, Frank ... you may wind up crashing a plane on Pandora and wind up spending six seasons there.

Whatever happened to those fun rumours of Discovery Island being turned into an interactive Lost area? Now that is one land I would have loved to see.

Doesn't mean I won't set foot there if and when it opens (at this point, you're looking at 2017 at the earliest!)

My dislike of Cameron runs deep; Alien is my favourite film but I hated Aliens (although I think I'm the only person didn't find it an upgrade on Ridley Scott's film) and I can't say I've liked many of his films (enjoyed Terminator, hated Titanic and couldn't make it through half hour of Avatar). I imagine that if Avatarland is built to it's full potential then it will prove to be very successful but I have no plans to experience it myself. Maybe that sounds like an extreme standpoint to take but the idea of it hasn't interested me since it was announced so I just find it easier to try and ignore it rather than get too caught up in my own opposition to it.

BTW, some goober here actually thinks that I think you are a pilot from a fictional TV series that I loved ... how amusing is that?

I saw that and I did find it very amusing.

 

[GLaDOS]

I hated Aliens (although I think I'm the only person didn't find it an upgrade on Ridley Scott's film) .

Nope, I'm with you. I like Aliens a lot, probably the only Cameron film I enjoy, but Alien is the far superior film. The sense of dread is more powerful than any movie I've ever seen.

 

[wm49rs]

First of all, I don't believe any of this. So looking forward to seeing you in Avatarland. Secondly, why do you think you are more important than millions and millions of other people? I could find some guy that didn't watch the Super Bowl. Does that mean they should cancel the Super Bowl next year because he doesn't like football? Do you realize what the point of a business is?

Yup I said it. The truth stings. As much as you people despise Avatar, I despise campy dreck like Finding Nemo and Beauty and the Beast more. I like WDW for the immesrive theme park experience. I don't have to like the films that were used as its basis.

Well, I might (might, mind you) be able to find someone that agrees with your overblown tripe. Thankfully that doesn't mean we should shut down this site. Another analogy wasted, I fear.

And what's really amusing is that the "campy dreck" is now pulling in record crowds at DCA. Might be something worth considering in the hallowed halls of TDO.

 

[ChrisM]

Aliens and Terminator 2 are possibly the two best action films ever made.

Alien is a masterpiece and possibly the finest horror film of all time.

 

[CinematicFusion]

I think a lot of people are playing down the success of avatar. It made 2.7 billion worldwide. I don't care if it was a 3d movie. That is a ton of money. Cars one and two combined don't hit those numbers. Avengers as great as it is didn't hit those numbers. Again all those movies were 3d.

Avatar had an average story( or better yet) a story that has been told with dances with wolves, the last samurai. It didn't have characters that stood out like a Luke skywalker or a Harry potter. And the Subtle America sucks vibe it had...most marines are evil and all American corporations are greedy and evil. That left a bitter taste in my mouth and upset Most of my friends in the military. Cameron is a master at controlling emotions. He put the smurf village in the tree....if it was a Infestation of cockroach type things, the audience would have been on the marines side. Nobody likes a cockroach. Of course nobody wants to destroy the smurf village.

Anyway.... What made avatar awesome was the land it took you too. That is what is coming to animal kingdom. All the plants, creatures, rock formations, waterfalls, and lights at night. The world of pandora will be a huge hit at animal kingdom. It isn't much different then the original beastly kingdom. It has all the fantasy creatures, all the action, all the magic.
It will be an amazing world that will fit perfect into the original design of animal kingdom.

Oh...and yes we will see marvel attractions in Disney parks....just not in Florida. When movies make that type of bank...rides are built.

 

[Cybercat]

Well, I might (might, mind you) be able to find someone that agrees with your overblown tripe. Thankfully that doesn't mean we should shut down this site. Another analogy wasted, I fear.

And what's really amusing is that the "campy dreck" is now pulling in record crowds at DCA. Might be something worth considering in the hallowed halls of TDO.

And when Avatarland pulls in bigger crowds will you still be complaining endlessly that "TDO" can't do anything right? Because you know Cars 2 was such a critical darling. I think it won the Oscar for best picture. That's why they made an entire land based on it. Oh wait it didn't, and I forgot some people here have a problem with hypocrisy. My bad.

 

[CaptJapan]

....someday....you'll all see....someday.

 

[wm49rs]

And when Avatarland pulls in bigger crowds will you still be complaining endlessly that "TDO" can't do anything right? Because you know Cars 2 was such a critical darling. I think it won the Oscar for best picture. That's why they made an entire land based on it. Oh wait it didn't, and I forgot some people here have a problem with hypocrisy. My bad.

And yet CarsLand is now pulling in record numbers of people for DCA, and AvatarLand is pulling in record numbers for.....well, just get back to me when it finally opens. If you're still around, of course. But with your tossing insults around like Cameron's movie budgets, that's long odds.

 

[WDW1974]

Whatever happened to those fun rumours of Discovery Island being turned into an interactive Lost area? Now that is one land I would have loved to see.

That's all it was, fanboi wishful thinking. I spent about 45 minutes chatting up your old 'pal' Ben Linus at a party (right before his double, some dude named Michael Emerson walked off with an Emmy) about why won't Disney do anything with Lost. He said to his knowledge no one had ever approached Bad Robot/JJ/Damon/Carlton about it, and he thought it was pretty dumb. I later got to talk to Carlton about it and his opinion was ''I guess Disney doesn't think we're a good fit'' and some other stuff I can't write here.
This was at the same time they were grabbing Freemantle/FOX's American Idol for the Studios.

Anyone see a correlation as Disney goes and grabs Avatar when they have so many of their own properties/characters/franchises just sitting around and collecting dust?

My dislike of Cameron runs deep; Alien is my favourite film but I hated Aliens (although I think I'm the only person didn't find it an upgrade on Ridley Scott's film) and I can't say I've liked many of his films (enjoyed Terminator, hated Titanic and couldn't make it through half hour of Avatar). I imagine that if Avatarland is built to it's full potential then it will prove to be very successful but I have no plans to experience it myself. Maybe that sounds like an extreme standpoint to take but the idea of it hasn't interested me since it was announced so I just find it easier to try and ignore it rather than get too caught up in my own opposition to it.

I am not so hard on Cameron although I know from people who have worked with him how difficult and abrasive a person he is. I loved Alien, but loved Aliens as well. Both great films. As was Terminator. Titantic was worth it just to watch the boat sinking and see Leonardo (who I think did his best work on ABC's Growing Pains) turn into a Jackcicle.Avatar is the only film of his that I flat out couldn't stand. It isn't because it's the worst thing ever made, but more that it was hyped so much and had so many of these geeks-who-live in Mommy's basement going to see it 5-6 times because they wanted some hot blue alien sex kitten to come live in the basement too! I don't care about stunning visuals and vistas if there's nothing surrounding it. That was Avatar. And the folks here who point out the lack of interest, the lack of merchandise, the fact it really isn't a franchise at all yet ... and just because they're making more films won't necessarilly solve that ... all of that just makes me BLAH on sticking it in a theme park that it doesn't belong in.

I saw that and I did find it very amusing.

Good. I meant to comment on that and then lost track of it.

 

[twebber55]

I think a lot of people are playing down the success of avatar. It made 2.7 billion worldwide. I don't care if it was a 3d movie. That is a ton of money. Cars one and two combined don't hit those numbers. Avengers as great as it is didn't hit those numbers. Again all those movies were 3d.

Avatar had an average story( or better yet) a story that has been told with dances with wolves, the last samurai. It didn't have characters that stood out like a Luke skywalker or a Harry potter. And the Subtle America sucks vibe it had...most marines are evil and all American corporations are greedy and evil. That left a bitter taste in my mouth and upset Most of my friends in the military. Cameron is a master at controlling emotions. He put the smurf village in the tree....if it was a Infestation of cockroach type things, the audience would have been on the marines side. Nobody likes a cockroach. Of course nobody wants to destroy the smurf village.

Anyway.... What made avatar awesome was the land it took you too. That is what is coming to animal kingdom. All the plants, creatures, rock formations, waterfalls, and lights at night. The world of pandora will be a huge hit at animal kingdom. It isn't much different then the original beastly kingdom. It has all the fantasy creatures, all the action, all the magic.
It will be an amazing world that will fit perfect into the original design of animal kingdom.

Oh...and yes we will see marvel attractions in Disney parks....just not in Florida. When movies make that type of bank...rides are built.

i couldnt of said it better
i also want to point out that theme park lands , at least to me, are more about the immersion and theming than the actually story telling thats going on...my example would be forbidden journey..its kind of a corny story that really has nothing to do with the movies but it works because the themeing of the land is the new standard for theme park lands...the first time i went to WWOHP i hadnt watched any of those movies

and i totally get people not liking it because its anti military bs and i also get that the big knock on this land is a lack of merchandising.....

 

[marni1971]

Personal opinion does not equal fact...

Just like one reply does not warrant a new thread...

 

[FrankLapidus]

Nope, I'm with you. I like Aliens a lot, probably the only Cameron film I enjoy, but Alien is the far superior film. The sense of dread is more powerful than any movie I've ever seen.

Agree with this and what ChrisM said. A lot of people I speak to about Alien have criticised it for being "dull" or that "nothing happens for the first hour". I shouldn't have said that I hate Aliens, on reflection it's a decent film, but I don't think it comes close to Alien.

That's all it was, fanboi wishful thinking. I spent about 45 minutes chatting up your old 'pal' Ben Linus at a party (right before his double, some dude named Michael Emerson walked off with an Emmy) about why won't Disney do anything with Lost. He said to his knowledge no one had ever approached Bad Robot/JJ/Damon/Carlton about it, and he thought it was pretty dumb. I later got to talk to Carlton about it and his opinion was ''I guess Disney doesn't think we're a good fit'' and some other stuff I can't write here.

That Michael Emerson guy sounds like he's pretty smart (not to mention an amazing actor). I never thought that there was any real possibility of any kind of 'Lost-land' being brought to WDW but some of the ideas I read on the internet were pretty interesting (I remember someone suggested somewhere that they could have themed a children's play area on the plane wreckage of Oceanic 815). I think the closest we ever did come to seeing Lost at WDW was when 'Down the Hatch' fish and chips were on the menu at the ABC Commissary. And how can you tease us with Lost information that you can't talk about on the forum, information that came from the creators no less?

Anyone see a correlation as Disney goes and grabs Avatar when they have so many of their own properties/characters/franchises just sitting around and collecting dust.

That seems to me to be Iger's mantra; "why spend time and care creating our own properties when we can just buy things like Marvel and Avatar?" Can't argue with the logic; they make money and Disney's attempts at creating franchises (John Carter, Prince of Persia) have fallen woefully short. But to me it just represents the continued loss of the identity that the WDC used to have. Iger's been a good CEO but I don't think he has any sense of creativity.

And the folks here who point out the lack of interest, the lack of merchandise, the fact it really isn't a franchise at all yet ... and just because they're making more films won't necessarilly solve that ... all of that just makes me BLAH on sticking it in a theme park that it doesn't belong in.

Yep, I would agree with the viewpoint. We'll just have to wait and see but I really don't think Avatar will become a franchise that can compete in the popularity stakes with the likes of Harry Potter or Star Wars. That's just my opinion and I might very well be proved wrong but either way I would still have no interest in anything to do with Avatar at WDW.

 

[tl77]

Avatar was the most financially successful movie of all time and performed wildly beyond expectations in every single market it was shown. Are those sequels to the most successful movie of all time? No, they're not. Seriously, just admit you are in denial and living in an alternate universe. That's ok. I understand you're upset that Disney is investing in something isn't Disney, but that doesn't excuse for throwing your reasoning ability out the window. The next Avatar movie has about as big of a chance of bombing as the next Super Bowl does of failing in the ratings. Although, with this much denial, I wouldn't put it past you to claim that is a possibility and for the next Super Bowl to be the last one.

Everyone is "assuming" this Avatar thing will work because the first movie made a ton of money. "Batman" in 1989 made a ton of money, "Batman Returns" didn't do quite as well, the third one made a ton of money, but the forth one "Batman and Robin" was such huge disaster it destroyed the franchise. This is the kind of thing no one seems to be concerned with, is anyone going want to want to go to Avatarland if the forth movie sucks as bad as "Batman and Robin" did? Probably not?

They're planning on building Avatarland and "hoping" everything goes well for the next 10 years or so, but if everything doesn't go well, if something goes terribly wrong, if the public gets tired of CG action movies, or if some new movie comes along and makes Avatar seem stupid or out touch... then what?

Deciding to build this theme park land before these movies come out is an extremely risky move to be making, especially when there's absolutely no good reason to be making it. So my problem is I have no idea how this thing is going to turn out, and neither do you

 

[walt-sent-me]

My initial reaction at reading that Disney was putting Avatarland in Animal Kingdom was "that doesn't seem right." This wasn't because of whether or not the movie was good or bad as many of you are debating, but rather thinking that Avatar was scientific and futuristic in nature and Animal Kingdom is all about animals. (I have to say here that Animal Kingdom is probably my favorite park because of themeing and the relaxed factor.) Then a quick second reaction was "wow, what Disney Imagineers could do with Pandora." I think it's this notion of an entire land of visual spectacle is what is entriguing about the project. Imagine what could be developed. Now, imagine Disney going even further than what you can think becasue that's what they do WHEN they do it right. It will be an environment like no other...similar to what movie-goers were mesmerized with in the Pandora scenes...but, it will be the real 3-D. Disney saw the opportunity. Many mentions of the recent Carsland success. When I heard about this expansion I thought "okay, they'll use the technology from Test Track and lay out a driving course in a cemented canyon" Then, I watched a video post of what Carsland actually ended up being. Man, it is totally beyond anything I ever thought - makes me want to see it in person even though Cars wasn't a favorite Pixar movie. Someone said that if they build it right, regardless of what the movie is, people will want to experience it. I think we're not seeing Avatarland concept art because they haven't figured it out yet.