Done they were. Lied they did.

[Wendy Pleakley]

Like??

And as far as “the company” goes (nametag alert - cringe)....do you believe that Iger wanted to can Kennedy for abrams last year? Just out of curiosity.

As you seem like the right person to ask this: tell me why I should like last Jedi? As in what about it resonated with you?

I’ve asked that since 12/17/17 here and nobody can make a case? A lot of mindless Disney defending and patronizing...after the initial week at the box office which proved absolutely nothing.

And patronization = nothing...as is well established.

You don't have to like The Last Jedi, just as the rest of the world doesn't need to agree with your assessment of it.

The movie was discussed at length. If you want to know what people liked about it, there's a thread.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The way I always thought of any possible “agenda” was that LucasFilm seemed to think they can write whatever character and then just get brownie points for diversity. The new characters imo are just boring. Rey has no growth, Finn is a traitor to both sides that only had loyalty to Rey and then had his shot at a redeeming sacrifice stolen, Poe is just discount Han Solo with less balls, and Rose is just uninteresting. Marvel has an incredibly diverse cast and none of them feel boring at all. I liked the war profiteering bit but the whole Canto Bight scene wasn’t needed. It didn’t fit the adventure feel that Star Wars is supposed to have.

I don't buy the argument that casting was made for "brownie points" or anyone thought diversity negates the need for character development.

We live in a diverse society, and maybe there's simply more of an awareness that there's no excuse to have a movie cast that's exclusively white and almost entirely male.

 

[LSLS]

Not as far as I am aware, no.


If you really care about my oipinion, here is my original review. My thoughts have evolved somewhat since then, but this captures it better than a couple of words on a message board.

Spoiler Review: The Last Jedi. A Surprise, to be Sure, but a Welcome One - Star Wars News Net

This review contains extensive discussion of spoilers for The Last Jedi. Turn back now if you don’t want to know

www.starwarsnewsnet.com

I quickly skimmed (sorry, don't have time yet, but really do want to read the whole thing), thanks. As someone who is kind of a middle of the road guy on Star Wars in general, there were a few things I really didn't like at all, but far and away top of the list was the casino thing. It felt like the most useless 30-40 minutes I have seen in a movie in a long time. I actually liked Luke (though didn't like he got Thanos'd off) for most of it, I didn't mind Rey/Kylo/etc. But that whole thing was just so horrible to me. Do you cover it? If not, what are your thoughts on that scene?

 

[Gomer]

I quickly skimmed (sorry, don't have time yet, but really do want to read the whole thing), thanks. As someone who is kind of a middle of the road guy on Star Wars in general, there were a few things I really didn't like at all, but far and away top of the list was the casino thing. It felt like the most useless 30-40 minutes I have seen in a movie in a long time. I actually liked Luke (though didn't like he got Thanos'd off) for most of it, I didn't mind Rey/Kylo/etc. But that whole thing was just so horrible to me. Do you cover it? If not, what are your thoughts on that scene?

I brought that up in my nitpicks at the end of the review. I do think it is by far the weakest portion of the movie. I get how it ties in thematically, but if feels tonally off with the rest of the movie. On its own, I equated it to the best parts of the prequels (I do think there a few, but I don't love those movies overall). But I would have been happier with a different plot for Finn and Rose. I feel like Rian's script had a really good handle on Poe and Rey's arcs, and he had to figure something out to do with Finn so it was forced a bit. (no pun intended)

 

[erasure fan1]

I think there’s something to say about Rian’s trilogy only being talked about by himself and Kennedy when it comes to prominent figures. Bob Iger only mentioned the GoT guys.

I've really only heard Rian talk about his trilogy. Kennedy has been been pretty silent and Iger just straight up ignored it completely and just talked Benioff and Weiss. I wouldn’t be surprised if after ep9 releases, Kennedy "moves on to other opportunities" and Johnson just silently goes away.

 

[Gomer]

I've really only heard Rian talk about his trilogy. Kennedy has been been pretty silent and Iger just straight up ignored it completely and just talked Benioff and Weiss. I wouldn’t be surprised if after ep9 releases, Kennedy "moves on to other opportunities" and Johnson just silently goes away.

Kennedy made a recent reference to Johnson. She mentioned (I think it was at celebration) that D&B and Rian have all been together at the Ranch working with the story group developing the story (note singular) for upcoming films.

You are correct on Iger being conspiculously silent. Read into that what you will.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You don't have to like The Last Jedi, just as the rest of the world doesn't need to agree with your assessment of it.

The movie was discussed at length. If you want to know what people liked about it, there's a thread.

This is exactly what I was talking about.

I remember those threads...and I didn’t get a compelling reason of “why”??

Just a lot of “plenty of people liked it”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You don't have to believe me. Didn't expect you to anyway as I'm aware of your posting history.

But even I'm making it all up, it's still no better or worse than internet speculation from people on a message board.

Indeed...I agree that’s its internet speculation. As long as it’s framed as such.

Lol....I love the “aware of history” part. Towing the line for a stock conglomerate as opposed to common sense always is pushed as a virtue that it never was. Even when I had a nametag.

They should always do what makes sense...like canning those that screwed up Star Wars. Perception is reality 99.9% of the time.

 

[Gomer]

Indeed...I agree that’s its internet speculation. As long as it’s framed as such.

Lol....I love the “aware of history” part. Towing the line for a stock conglomerate as opposed to common sense always is pushed as a virtue that it never was. Even when I had a nametag.

They should always do what makes sense...like canning those that screwed up Star Wars. Perception is reality 99.9% of the time.

Accusing anyone who disagrees with you as towing the line for the company doesn't really lend much weight to your criticism.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Accusing anyone who disagrees with you as towing the line for the company doesn't really lend much weight to your criticism.

To be fair...I don’t think you’re doing that on this topic.

But the “aware or your history” is patronizing and gets right back to a point that is beneath you.

It was a legit discussion until then.

I discuss the topics as they seem to be...there isn’t an overarching agenda. I want to have fun and see new things like everyone else. Just without dust...that stuff is dangerous

 

[Gomer]

To be fair...I don’t think you’re doing that on this topic.

But the “aware or your history” is patronizing and gets right back to a point that is beneath you.

It was a legit discussion until then.

I discuss the topics as they seem to be...there isn’t an overarching agenda. I want to have fun and see new things like everyone else. Just without dust...that stuff is dangerous

Well, I thought it was legit until you pulled Brazil shennanigans on me. Hence my snarky comment back.

But hey, lets start with a clean slate. Take a look at my review. If you want to discuss my reasons for liking the movie I'll genuinely engage.

 

[LSLS]

I brought that up in my nitpicks at the end of the review. I do think it is by far the weakest portion of the movie. I get how it ties in thematically, but if feels tonally off with the rest of the movie. On its own, I equated it to the best parts of the prequels (I do think there a few, but I don't love those movies overall). But I would have been happier with a different plot for Finn and Rose. I feel like Rian's script had a really good handle on Poe and Rey's arcs, and he had to figure something out to do with Finn so it was forced a bit. (no pun intended)

Fair enough. This is where I think we completely differ. To me this is the worst thing I saw in a star wars. It just felt so horribly forced. There were other things I didnt like (Leia's flying might be my next largest), but this whole sequence was just awful to me. I honestly nearly fell asleep during it.

To go to erasures point, this felt like it was completely forced and meddled in by higher ups later in the movie production (ie, "we need a bigger story line for finn, figure it out."). I dont have the complete hatred of the movie (or especially of johnson, though it's far from my top star wars), but I do think it's probably a bad idea to have him doing star wars at this point. Love it or hate it, there is some evidence jedi did real damage to the franchise, so I just cant see giving him a trilogy.

 

[Gomer]

Fair enough. This is where I think we completely differ. To me this is the worst thing I saw in a star wars. It just felt so horribly forced. There were other things I didnt like (Leia's flying might be my next largest), but this whole sequence was just awful to me. I honestly nearly fell asleep during it.

To go to erasures point, this felt like it was completely forced and meddled in by higher ups later in the movie production (ie, "we need a bigger story line for finn, figure it out."). I dont have the complete hatred of the movie (or especially of johnson, though it's far from my top star wars), but I do think it's probably a bad idea to have him doing star wars at this point. Love it or hate it, there is some evidence jedi did real damage to the franchise, so I just cant see giving him a trilogy.

I don't know about evidence. The arguments from both sides of the spectrum as to whether Solo's flop and merch reductions were due to TLJ blow back are filled with confirmation bias.

Truth is no one knows for sure. There are a variety of speculated reasons, and people tend to go with the one that fits their preferences best.

There is an argument to be made that not knowing the true cause for the slow down it would be responsible from a business standpoint not to throw Rian's trilogy out there until you know he wasn't the cause. Not something I'm hoping for personally as I'd love to see more from him. But I get that decision from a business perspective if that is where it ends up.

As of now, there is lots in limbo at LF. Planned movies were pulled from production and shifted to the streaming service. The halt on theatrical releases for the Star Wars Story line. And indecision on what the next productions will be. I think they are taking a real hard look at where to go next. I'm not even entirely sure they know exactly what will fill that 2022 slot yet and what will follow Cassian Andor on Disney+. I guess time will tell.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, I thought it was legit until you pulled Brazil shennanigans on me. Hence my snarky comment back.

But hey, lets start with a clean slate. Take a look at my review. If you want to discuss my reasons for liking the movie I'll genuinely engage.

I’ll give you that one...that was an easy, low blow joke on my part

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Fair enough. This is where I think we completely differ. To me this is the worst thing I saw in a star wars. It just felt so horribly forced. There were other things I didnt like (Leia's flying might be my next largest), but this whole sequence was just awful to me. I honestly nearly fell asleep during it.

To go to erasures point, this felt like it was completely forced and meddled in by higher ups later in the movie production (ie, "we need a bigger story line for finn, figure it out."). I dont have the complete hatred of the movie (or especially of johnson, though it's far from my top star wars), but I do think it's probably a bad idea to have him doing star wars at this point. Love it or hate it, there is some evidence jedi did real damage to the franchise, so I just cant see giving him a trilogy.

I agree here...

It’s not that people are divided on it. It’s that the overall impression that makes it controversial and why Johnson can’t do another Star Wars. It is not a smart move from a business/franchise health standpoint.

It’s not like they can’t find anymore else (I think?) and directors are canned for much less.

 

[Mike S]

I don't buy the argument that casting was made for "brownie points" or anyone thought diversity negates the need for character development.

We live in a diverse society, and maybe there's simply more of an awareness that there's no excuse to have a movie cast that's exclusively white and almost entirely male.

I’m not saying they should’ve been white and male. I’m saying they need to focus more on writing better characters. They did it great in Rogue One imo so idk what the heck happened with the main trilogy.

Kennedy made a recent reference to Johnson. She mentioned (I think it was at celebration) that D&B and Rian have all been together at the Ranch working with the story group developing the story (note singular) for upcoming films.

You are correct on Iger being conspiculously silent. Read into that what you will.

Also that the buck stops with him on Star Wars from his own mouth. Almost like he’s going over Kennedy.

Well, I thought it was legit until you pulled Brazil shennanigans on me. Hence my snarky comment back.

But hey, lets start with a clean slate. Take a look at my review. If you want to discuss my reasons for liking the movie I'll genuinely engage.

I’ll take a read later.

I don't know about evidence. The arguments from both sides of the spectrum as to whether Solo's flop and merch reductions were due to TLJ blow back are filled with confirmation bias.

Truth is no one knows for sure. There are a variety of speculated reasons, and people tend to go with the one that fits their preferences best.

There is an argument to be made that not knowing the true cause for the slow down it would be responsible from a business standpoint not to throw Rian's trilogy out there until you know he wasn't the cause. Not something I'm hoping for personally as I'd love to see more from him. But I get that decision from a business perspective if that is where it ends up.

As of now, there is lots in limbo at LF. Planned movies were pulled from production and shifted to the streaming service. The halt on theatrical releases for the Star Wars Story line. And indecision on what the next productions will be. I think they are taking a real hard look at where to go next. I'm not even entirely sure they know exactly what will fill that 2022 slot yet and what will follow Cassian Andor on Disney+. I guess time will tell.

Canning a possible Obi Wan Star Wars Story is a mistake imo. That’s one movie people want them to make if they can get the right people behind it.

 

[erasure fan1]

I’m not saying they should’ve been white and male. I’m saying they need to focus more on writing better characters. They did it great in Rogue One imo so idk what the heck happened with the main trilogy.

Exactly! Rose and Holdo aren't bad characters because they are woman. They're bad characters because they are terribly written and un interesting. But it always seems to come down to, you hate woman! When anyone brings this up.

 

[LSLS]

I don't know about evidence. The arguments from both sides of the spectrum as to whether Solo's flop and merch reductions were due to TLJ blow back are filled with confirmation bias.

Truth is no one knows for sure. There are a variety of speculated reasons, and people tend to go with the one that fits their preferences best.

There is an argument to be made that not knowing the true cause for the slow down it would be responsible from a business standpoint not to throw Rian's trilogy out there until you know he wasn't the cause. Not something I'm hoping for personally as I'd love to see more from him. But I get that decision from a business perspective if that is where it ends up.

As of now, there is lots in limbo at LF. Planned movies were pulled from production and shifted to the streaming service. The halt on theatrical releases for the Star Wars Story line. And indecision on what the next productions will be. I think they are taking a real hard look at where to go next. I'm not even entirely sure they know exactly what will fill that 2022 slot yet and what will follow Cassian Andor on Disney+. I guess time will tell.

No, but the evidence would be solo flopping, Disney cancelling/putting on hiatus other star wars movie, and the fact the episode 9 trailer was the newest viewed of all three (behind incredibles 2). Its not conclusive, but it's a lot more than just solo.

 

[Gomer]

Canning a possible Obi Wan Star Wars Story is a mistake imo. That’s one movie people want them to make if they can get the right people behind it.

This is reportedly still happening just as a streaming series.

 

[Gomer]

No, but the evidence would be solo flopping, Disney cancelling/putting on hiatus other star wars movie, and the fact the episode 9 trailer was the newest viewed of all three (behind incredibles 2). Its not conclusive, but it's a lot more than just solo.

I’m not questioning evidence of a decline. I’m saying the evidence that it was caused by The Last Jedi is questionable.