Done they were. Lied they did.

[Mike S]

This viewpoint over-simplifies the issue with fan service.

The fan service in Endgame helped progress the plot and its characters. That’s acceptable fan service.

The fan service in films like Solo did nothing of the sort. They existed as nothing but winks and nods to fans that want to cheer at something familiar. It’s poor writing.

Well I do agree Solo was average as I stated above. I’m not really defending that movie more than I’m speaking of disagreements with the direction of the sequel trilogy. Getting just one scene with the old trio back together, or possibly more, wouldn’t have brought down anything story wise. Getting to see Luke as a Jedi Master and not a bitter old man wouldn’t have brought down anything. Everyone was expecting the torch to be passed to the new characters anyway so why in the heck couldn’t old Star Wars fans get the reunions and send offs that Marvel was able to give us?

 

[Gomer]

Not sure if I'll regret diving in here but...
I think we need to allow for room for all types of SW stories. I'm an unabasshed lover of TLJ which seems like it won't get me much respect here.

Solo is possibly my least favorite SW movie (in a perpetual battle with AotC).

TFA was good but not great. R1 was meh.

What I don't understand is the anger some have over not liking one of these movies. I didn't like Solo, but I don't begrudge those who did. I envy them for being able to love it. I loved TLJ, but I understand why some don't. I hope they get more Solo's and Rogue Ones to enjoy in the future. And I hope I get more TLJ's.

There is no perfect SW movie that will please all sides of the fanbase. The fandom is too varied and has too many diverging priorities. Or if there were some theoretical movie that please all, it would have to be so bland to achieve not offending such a variety of fans that it wouldn't be all that memorable. But what I think people forget, is that if you had gotten exactly the movie you wanted there are many others who loved that movie who would not have gotten what they wanted.

For me its easier to move on and just hope I enjoy the next one. I'm not campaigning for people to lose their jobs because I didn't like Solo.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Not sure if I'll regret diving in here but...
I think we need to allow for room for all types of SW stories. I'm an unabasshed lover of TLJ which seems like it won't get me much respect here.

Solo is possibly my least favorites SW movie (in a perpetual battle with AotC).

TFA was good but not great. R1 was meh.

What I don't understand is the anger some have over not liking one of these movies. I didn't like Solo, but I don't begrudge those who did. I envy them for being able to love it. I loved TLJ, but I understand why some don't. I hope they get more Solo's and Rogue Ones to enjoy in the future. And I hope I get more TLJ's.

There is no perfect SW movie that will please all sides of the fanbase. The fandom is too varied and has too many diverging priorities. Or if there were some theoretical movie that please all, it would have to be so bland to achieve not offending such a variety of fans that it wouldn't be all that memorable. But what I think people forget, is that if you had gotten exactly the movie you wanted there are many others who loved that movie who would not have gotten what they wanted.

For me its easier to move on and just hope I enjoy the next one. I'm not campaigning for people to lose their jobs because I didn't like Solo.

Totally agree.

And to add to this, it's fine that people are throwing out names over who should be making the next Star Wars movie, but we have to remember that even George Lucas couldn't make Star Wars movies that everyone liked. There is no magic bullet in the form of a producer, writer, or director that will produce a universally beloved Star Wars.

There's going to be enough Star Wars movies and TV shows going forward, that for every installment one doesn't like, there's probably going to be one that they do. How long does one need to dwell on the bad?

 

[Gomer]

Totally agree.

And to add to this, it's fine that people are throwing out names over who should be making the next Star Wars movie, but we have to remember that even George Lucas couldn't make Star Wars movies that everyone liked. There is no magic bullet in the form of a producer, writer, or director that will produce a universally beloved Star Wars.

There's going to be enough Star Wars movies and TV shows going forward, that for every installment one doesn't like, there's probably going to be one that they do. How long does one need to dwell on the bad?

Exactly, I honestly hope now that D&B make their fan servicey Old Republic movie and they let Rian take his story to Disney+ where there will be less embarrassing outcry. A miniseries is probably a better fit for his deep character dive kind of stuff anyway, and let the theater be home to the action spectacle.

There's no reason everyone can't get what they want. It just won't all be in the same place.

 

[Mike S]

Not sure if I'll regret diving in here but...
I think we need to allow for room for all types of SW stories. I'm an unabasshed lover of TLJ which seems like it won't get me much respect here.

Solo is possibly my least favorites SW movie (in a perpetual battle with AotC).

TFA was good but not great. R1 was meh.

What I don't understand is the anger some have over not liking one of these movies. I didn't like Solo, but I don't begrudge those who did. I envy them for being able to love it. I loved TLJ, but I understand why some don't. I hope they get more Solo's and Rogue Ones to enjoy in the future. And I hope I get more TLJ's.

There is no perfect SW movie that will please all sides of the fanbase. The fandom is too varied and has too many diverging priorities. Or if there were some theoretical movie that please all, it would have to be so bland to achieve not offending such a variety of fans that it wouldn't be all that memorable. But what I think people forget, is that if you had gotten exactly the movie you wanted there are many others who loved that movie who would not have gotten what they wanted.

For me its easier to move on and just hope I enjoy the next one. I'm not campaigning for people to lose their jobs because I didn't like Solo.

I don’t begrudge anyone who simply liked the movie.

It’s just at a certain point one grows tired of all the “you’re just racist, sexist, misogynist, a manbaby, etc.” rhetoric that came from all directions, even from people within LucasFilm or working for them, to all the people that disliked it. Even after giving detailed reasons for not liking it that had nothing to do with those labels. It isn't only a lack of fan service. It’s also a lack of respect for the fans that brought Star Wars to where it is in the first place.

I think all the people that like the new movies wouldn’t have minded a little more respect shown to the older characters, just imo.

 

[Gomer]

I don’t begrudge anyone who simply liked the movie.

It’s just at a certain point one grows tired of all the “you’re just racist, sexist, misogynist, a manbaby, etc.” rhetoric that came from all directions, even from people within LucasFilm or working for them, to all the people that disliked it.

And that's fair. But at a certain point people also went overboard in reaction to said criticism. A lot of people need to grow up a bit here if they are this venomous about a movie franchise. That goes for the people who attack Rian Johnson or Kelly Marie Tran on twitter and also goes for the people who wave away any criticism of the movie as some sort of bias.

It's not ok to dismiss people's subjective criticisms of the movie. And similarly, it is not ok to attack and berate those who do like it.

I understand why people were upset by TLJ. I don't share those opinions. I've said since the beginning, I didn't need to see any Very Skywalker Reunion Movie and I never wanted Luke to be some badass Jedi pulling star destroyers down from the sky. That's me. TLJ is perfectly in my wheel house and only second to ESB in my opinion.

I completely get why it isn't for others. But people need to pick teams on the internet. So they attack, then they get offended so they attack harder, and before you know it Rian Johnson raped my childhood and this is the worse movie ever and anyone who disagrees is an imbecile.

It just all seems so juvenile and petty.

 

[Mike S]

And that's fair. But at a certain point people also went overboard in reaction to said criticism. A lot of people need to grow up a bit here if they are this venomous about a movie franchise. That goes for the people who attack Rian Johnson or Kelly Marie Tran on twitter and also goes for the people who wave away any criticism of the movie as some sort of bias.

It's not ok to dismiss people's subjective criticisms of the movie. And similarly, it is not ok to attack and berate those who do like it.

I understand why people we're upset by TLJ. I don't share those opinions. I've said since the beginning, I didn't need to see any Very Skywalker Reunion Movie and I never wanted Luke to be some badass Jedi pulling star destroyers down from the sky. That's me. TLJ is perfectly in my wheel house and only second to ESB in my opinion.

I completely get why it isn't for others. But people need to pick teams on the internet. So they attack, then they get offended so they attack harder, and before you know it Rian Johnson raped my childhood and this is the worse movie ever and anyone who disagrees is an imbecile.

It just all seems so juvenile and petty.

Pulling Star Destroyers would’ve been too extreme. Something simply more than astral projection would’ve been fine. To pull from Endgame,

Spoiler

Luke should’ve had a “Cap lifting Mjolnir” moment. Or “Avengers assemble!” Or “I am Iron Man.” It’s really not too much to ask.

I was so hyped during that scene on Crait because it was what I was waiting for the whole movie. When it revealed Luke wasn’t actually there and then he just dies, the only reaction I could muster was “...what?” He deserved more.

Kelly was only acting from the script given to her so she didn’t deserve anything personal. I’ve always only critiqued the character. Rian on the other hand deserves criticism. He wrote and directed the movie. If anyone had problems with it it’s directly because of decisions he made. No personal attacks but critique again is fine but in today’s day and age stars seem to think any critique is a personal attack.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

A lot of the backlash wasn't the attitude of, "you didn't like the movie so you're racist". Rather, there was a response to people who zeroed in on the diverse cast and went on the attack.

There were definitely the types who complained that the movie was "pushing an agenda" and were upset because it wasn't exclusively white men or because it touched on the issues of wealth and war profiteering. It's one thing not to like Tran's character or her story, but it's another to get all bent out of shape and accuse the movie of casting an Asian actor as part of an "agenda".

 

[Gomer]

Pulling Star Destroyers would’ve been too extreme. Something simply more than astral projection would’ve been fine. To pull from Endgame,

Spoiler

Luke should’ve had a “Cap lifting Mjolnir” moment. Or “Avengers assemble!” Or “I am Iron Man.”

Kelly was only acting from the script given to her so she didn’t deserve anything personal. I’ve always only critiqued the character. Rian on the other hand deserves criticism. He wrote and directed the movie. If anyone had problems with it it’s directly because of decisions he made. No personal attacks but critique again is fine but in today’s day and age stars seem to think any critique is a personal attack.

Definitely fine to criticize his direction and writing if you don’t like it. I think attacking him personally on Twitter the way some have is too much.

I just think people need to separate the man from the art. He made his movie. People can criticize his work but going after him personally is too far.

 

[Mike S]

A lot of the backlash wasn't the attitude of, "you didn't like the movie so you're racist". Rather, there was a response to people who zeroed in on the diverse cast and went on the attack.

There were definitely the types who complained that the movie was "pushing an agenda" and were upset because it wasn't exclusively white men or because it touched on the issues of wealth and war profiteering. It's one thing not to like Tran's character or her story, but it's another to get all bent out of shape and accuse the movie of casting an Asian actor as part of an "agenda".

The way I always thought of any possible “agenda” was that LucasFilm seemed to think they can write whatever character and then just get brownie points for diversity. The new characters imo are just boring. Rey has no growth, Finn is a traitor to both sides that only had loyalty to Rey and then had his shot at a redeeming sacrifice stolen, Poe is just discount Han Solo with less balls, and Rose is just uninteresting. Marvel has an incredibly diverse cast and none of them feel boring at all. I liked the war profiteering bit but the whole Canto Bight scene wasn’t needed. It didn’t fit the adventure feel that Star Wars is supposed to have.

Definitely fine to criticize his direction and writing if you don’t like it. I think attacking him personally on Twitter the way some have is too much.

I just think people need to separate the man from the art. He made his movie. People can criticize his work but going after him personally is too far.

I don’t even use Twitter. Too toxic on all sides for my liking.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Definitely fine to criticize his direction and writing if you don’t like it. I think attacking him personally on Twitter the way some have is too much.

I just think people need to separate the man from the art. He made his movie. People can criticize his work but going after him personally is too far.

He’s handled that criticism terribly...to be honest.

Only Kathy Kennedy supports this guy...it’s weird at a minimum.

He’s not right for the job.

“Ya had your shot, kid”

 

[Gomer]

He’s handled that criticism terribly...to be honest.

Only Kathy Kennedy supports this guy...it’s weird at a minimum.

He’s not right for the job.

“Ya had your shot, kid”

He could have handled it better but he does have far more support than one person within the company.

*ETA not saying he safe. There are those very high up who want to bend over for the complainers. But this far those voices haven’t won out.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

He could have handled it better but he does have far more support than one person within the company.

Like??

And as far as “the company” goes (nametag alert - cringe)....do you believe that Iger wanted to can Kennedy for abrams last year? Just out of curiosity.

As you seem like the right person to ask this: tell me why I should like last Jedi? As in what about it resonated with you?

I’ve asked that since 12/17/17 here and nobody can make a case? A lot of mindless Disney defending and patronizing...after the initial week at the box office which proved absolutely nothing.

And patronization = nothing...as is well established.

 

[Gomer]

Like??

Not at liberty to share. Not my info to divulge. There is disagreement. But it is not the case of one against many.

 

[Mike S]

He could have handled it better but he does have far more support than one person within the company.

*ETA not saying he safe. There are those very high up who want to bend over for the complainers. But this far those voices haven’t won out.

I think there’s something to say about Rian’s trilogy only being talked about by himself and Kennedy when it comes to prominent figures. Bob Iger only mentioned the GoT guys.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not at liberty to share. Not my info to divulge. There is disagreement. But it is not the case of one against many.

Oh dear...we’re not doing the “I know people” thing, are we?

When’s Brazil opening?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think there’s something to say about Rian’s trilogy only being talked about by himself and Kennedy when it comes to prominent figures. Bob Iger only mentioned the GoT guys.

So you’re going with the KISS method on this?

Good move

 

[Gomer]

Like??

And as far as “the company” goes (nametag alert - cringe)....do you believe that Iger wanted to can Kennedy for abrams last year? Just out of curiosity.

Not as far as I am aware, no.

As you seem like the right person to ask this: tell me why I should like last Jedi? As in what about it resonated with you?

I’ve asked that since 12/17/17 here and nobody can make a case? A lot of mindless Disney defending and patronizing...after the initial week at the box office which proved absolutely nothing.

And patronization = nothing...as is well established.

If you really care about my oipinion, here is my original review. My thoughts have evolved somewhat since then, but this captures it better than a couple of words on a message board.

Spoiler Review: The Last Jedi. A Surprise, to be Sure, but a Welcome One - Star Wars News Net

This review contains extensive discussion of spoilers for The Last Jedi. Turn back now if you don’t want to know

www.starwarsnewsnet.com

 

[Gomer]

Oh dear...we’re not doing the “I know people” thing, are we?

When’s Brazil opening?

You don't have to believe me. Didn't expect you to anyway as I'm aware of your posting history.

But even I'm making it all up, it's still no better or worse than internet speculation from people on a message board.

 

[Mike S]

So you’re going with the KISS method on this?

Good move

There’s a KISS method?