Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
Where I live its only outdoor seating allowed.
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Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?
- Thread starter Logan L
- Start date
SoCalMort
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, the invisible hand of Capitalism or something like that....
That is 100% incorrect. There are countless studies on people eating inside and infecting parties on the complete opposite side of the room. Masks off indoors is wildly unsafe. Period. Distance is almost irrelevant.
Yep.
239 Experts With One Big Claim: The Coronavirus Is Airborne (Published 2020)
The W.H.O. has resisted mounting evidence that viral particles floating indoors are infectious, some scientists say. The agency maintains the research is still inconclusive.
The virus can linger for long periods indoors.
I've been in ice cold AC Florida restaurants. The AC is blowing so cold that sometimes the items on the ceiling and walls are like blowing in the wind.
milordsloth
Well-Known Member
Countless studies? Mind linking a source for a study showing someone getting infected on the opposite side of the room? From what I've seen, there was that restaurant in China and other articles saying there is potentially "increased risk"...
mickeymiss
Well-Known Member
My guess is that they did not factor it in but it still seems a little strange for it to be on the "highest risk" list more than school or visiting people or "walking in a busy dowtown". It's depressing to see normal and often essential acitvities ranked on a list like this. There was already so much psychological and social stress.
Rider
Well-Known Member
Coronavirus can spread in the air âbeyond any reasonable doubt,â over 200 scientists tell the World Health Organization
The WHO has long dismissed the possibility of airborne transmission, except for certain high-risk medical procedures.
www.marketwatch.com
mickeymiss
Well-Known Member
Coronavirus can spread in the air âbeyond any reasonable doubt,â over 200 scientists tell the World Health Organization
The WHO has long dismissed the possibility of airborne transmission, except for certain high-risk medical procedures.
Does anyone have sources that prove a direct link between infections and eating at an American restaurant? I haven't seen any. Only crowded bars.
milordsloth
Well-Known Member
Coronavirus can spread in the air âbeyond any reasonable doubt,â over 200 scientists tell the World Health Organization
The WHO has long dismissed the possibility of airborne transmission, except for certain high-risk medical procedures.
From that link:
In a letter published this week in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases, two scientists from Australia and the U.S. wrote that studies have shown “beyond any reasonable doubt that viruses are released during exhalation, talking and coughing in microdroplets small enough to remain aloft in the air.” That means people in certain indoor conditions could be at greater risk of being infected than was previously thought.
That doesn't really answer my question. That says there is no doubt the virus is airborne... but nothing regarding the previous comment about "countless studies on people eating inside and infecting parties on the complete opposite side of the room."
I would also like to see this.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The problem with indoor dining has always been the lack of masks combined with the amount of time spent in a confined location with a potentially infected person. Walking next to someone who is infected in a supermarket or outdoor at a theme park is much less risky because the exposure is so short and both parties would be wearing a mask. If a sick person is sitting unmasked at a table even if they are 6 feet from you there’s still a good chance some of their “spit” reaches you. Is it enough to infect you, maybe so, maybe not. The concept is no different than a bar, just that the bar is less likely to have physical distancing requirements so you have contact with even more people.
I don’t know how there could be studies showing people being infected across the room. That seems unlikely. The reason indoor dining gets put in the higher risk category is due to the knowledge of the way the virus spreads, not necessarily a direct study.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
I don't have a direct link to what you are looking for. Where I live only outdoor seating is allowed at restaurants and we have yet to see a spike of cases at all. In fact we have been under 200 cases for weeks now.
Amused to Death
Well-Known Member
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no coronavirus: for there is a Dole Whip stand in Adventureland to comfort me.
Rider
Well-Known Member
It's hard because Contact Tracing in the US is so poor that there is just a lack of data to study. Dining rooms also haven't been open that long to do real studies.
Anyway here is the best we can get with the data we have:
www.cnbc.com
JPMORGAN used their credit card data.
The evidence is mounting that shared indoor spaces are risky. And none of them limit themselves to bars or the US which is a silly contraint. We are all humans. Indoors are generally defined the same worldwide.
news.harvard.edu
www.erinbromage.com
www.winknews.com
www.pnas.org
www.healtheuropa.eu
Anyway here is the best we can get with the data we have:
This chart shows the link between restaurant spending and new cases of coronavirus
Higher restaurant spending appears to be linked to a faster spread of the coronavirus, according to JPMorgan.
www.cnbc.com
JPMORGAN used their credit card data.
The evidence is mounting that shared indoor spaces are risky. And none of them limit themselves to bars or the US which is a silly contraint. We are all humans. Indoors are generally defined the same worldwide.
Air conditioning may be factor in COVID-19 spread in the South
Harvard researchers, drawing on insights from tuberculosis research, say air conditioners may be a factor in COVID-19’s spread down South, and relatively inexpensive germicidal ultraviolet lights a weapon.
news.harvard.edu
The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them
Please read this link to learn about the author and background to these posts. It seems many people are breathing some relief, and I’m not sure why. An epidemic curve has a relatively predictable upslope and once the peak is reached, the back slope can also be predicted. We have robust data from...
www.erinbromage.com
Study shows patients were 19 times more likely to catch coronavirus indoors vs outdoors
The breeze blows the trees along Punta Gorda’s Harborwalk, but the harbor walkers are nowhere to be found. A few blocks away at the Celtic Ray Irish pub, Dick and Louise Nelson have the outdoor patio nearly to themselves. “We used to eat indoors but the valuable place to us right now is the...
www.winknews.com
Tackling airborne transmission of COVID-19 indoors
Preventing airborne transmission of Covid-19 should be the next front of the battle against the virus, argue experts in a new article.
www.sciencedaily.com
Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19
We have elucidated the transmission pathways of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) by analyzing the trend and mitigation measures in the three epicenters. Our results show that the airborne transmission route is highly virulent and dominant for the spread of COVID-19. The mitigation measures...
www.pnas.org
Controlling spread of COVID-19 infection indoors needs to be a priority
Experts have said that controlling the spread of the COVID-19 infection indoors should be ‘the next front of the battle against the virus’.
www.healtheuropa.eu
GoofGoof
Premium Member
We don’t have a study that shows washing our hands is an effective way to avoid some of the infection from this virus either, but based on how we know viruses work it’s pretty certain that hand washing will help. I don’t understand the fixation on having scientific studies on everything (masks, indoor dining, etc). We have a lot of knowledge on how the virus spreads so we know certain things will be more or less risky based solely on that. Indoor dining is more risky than outdoor dining which is more risky than takeout which is more risky than cooking at home.
A majority of these articles (that many people present as irrefutable proof, or in this case, "countless"), that claim to offer difinitive evidence of whatever the article title is, are nothing more than subjective at best.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Have you been to FL in the summer?
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
No I haven't but here in Ontario the humidity is almost as bad. This past week its been hotter here then FL. Its been feeling like 102 the past few days. Hot weather shouldn't be an excuse on why it can't be done.
Rider
Well-Known Member
Not every restaurant is able to do that. By me one place put some tables in their parking lot... but that takes away from the parking. Others might not even have that option depending on their setup. Think about Disney Springs. Everything is so close together and all the spare space is taken up by walkways. Where would T-REX move enough tables to not block the walkways but make it worth it to be open? And who goes to T-REX for the food instead of the decor?
Also, winter is coming... and Outdoors will be even less possible for vast parts of the country just as flu season is picking up...
Also, winter is coming... and Outdoors will be even less possible for vast parts of the country just as flu season is picking up...