Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

[DisneyDebRob]

That’s not what I asked. I asked if mask science has changed. Because you said this...

.”Sounds like science at its best. As more data comes in you adjust your findings. To say some organization recommended something then changed their position, do you even know how science works?”

From 5 days ago, how depending on what mask you have, how it can stop droplets along with the distance they travel.

Visualization shows exactly how face masks stop COVID-19 transmission

Without a mask, droplets produced during coughing can travel up to 12 feet. With a mask, this distance is reduced to just a few inches.

www.google.com

We need to get off the mask topic. Moms watching.

 

[Heppenheimer]

By the way, if anyone ever wants to review the evidence for or against a given medical question, Google is not your best source. Google's algorithms are trying to find the best match for you based on past searches... hence, it already knows your biases and it is more likely to give you results that match with your previous searches, not the most relevant, scientifically validated answers. Google is trying to steer you towards relevant advertisers, not properly vetted scientific consensus.

The single best source is Up to Date, but this is behind a rather expensive pay-wall.

Second best is Medscape, which is free, although you need to create an account and some of the information here is sometimes not as well vetted as on Up to Date.

Third, if you actually want to see the raw studies, go to Pubmed. This will give you at least an abstract to any study published throughout most of the world. However, just because a paper was published does not automatically mean that its findings were generally accepted as valid by the wider medical and scientific community. And to be blunt... most lay people have neither the specialized education nor the training to properly analyze and contextualize research papers.

The CDC is also a good source, both for professional and lay people, but they tend to concentrate more on infectious diseases than general health.

 

[PolynesianPrincess]

Many people forget that wearing a mask is not particularly for protecting you from inhaling others droplets. Its mainly protecting others from inhaling your droplets. So you’re not doing it for yourself, youre doing it for others. And thats called respect. Something the world could use some more of these days..

Unfortunately respect is something not taught by parents anymore. heck even people my age who WERE taught how to respect others are still not wearing masks. I would rather be mildly inconvenienced and wear a mask and have it help just a little than to be a jerk and cry about my right to not wear one.

To the people who don't wear a mask, do you also complain about having to wear a shirt or shoes into an establishment? Isn't it your right to go barefoot and shirtless?

 

[Lilofan]

4 months ago the general population was not told the truth - ie, lied to - in an effort to stop people from hoarding masks that were needed more by medical workers and patients than the average citizen. They were definitely going to be exposed - we might. And even then they knew that any mask was better than no mask. Unfortunately, past experience had shown that many people just can't help themselves when it comes to watching out for #1 and the rest of the population be damned.

If you've tried to purchase certain products lately you can understand the concern - I still can't find Clorox wipes or hand wipes at my local grocery, although toilet paper is available - but not every time, and not always my usual brand.

The science of masks stopping droplets hasn't changed, although masks have improved over time. There is a reason that surgeons have been wearing masks for over a century - the masks may have changed, but the original purpose has not.


Surgical mask
A surgical mask, also known as a face mask, is intended to be worn by health professionals during healthcare procedures. It is designed to prevent infections in patients and treating personnel by catching bacteria shed in liquid droplets and aerosols from the wearer's mouth and nose.Wikipedia

I am very disappointed that we were told a complete lie. Without naming names our VP of the USA and the US Surgeon General said on record in the first week of March that we should not wear masks.

 

[xdan0920]

From 5 days ago, how depending on what mask you have, how it can stop droplets along with the distance they travel.

Visualization shows exactly how face masks stop COVID-19 transmission

Without a mask, droplets produced during coughing can travel up to 12 feet. With a mask, this distance is reduced to just a few inches.

www.google.com

We need to get off the mask topic. Moms watching.

Again. Not what I asked. Is there new “science” about masks?

I am gonna stop though because we both know the answer.

As @The Mom pointed out, we were deliberately misled. Nothing changed except messaging.

 

[electric]

Again. Not what I asked. Is there new “science” about masks?

I am gonna stop though because we both know the answer.

As @The Mom pointed out, we were deliberately misled. Nothing changed except messaging.

And every forum on the internet turns into a big ing contest regarding masks. Nobody wins on here. I hate masks but if it means we all can have some sort of life going forward I dont see how we have a choice.

 

[xdan0920]

And every forum on the internet turns into a big ****ing contest regarding masks. Nobody wins on here. I hate masks but if it means we all can have some sort of life going forward I dont see how we have a choice.

Indeed. A lot of posturing and preening.

I wear the mask, regardless of my personal feelings about it, or the messaging behind it, or the lack of consistency in the wearing. My 6 year old starts summer camp today(thank the lord) and they have to wear masks when they aren’t in the pool. Is that smart? I have my doubts, but if that’s the rule for us to get some sort of normalcy for kids, then we’ll follow along.

 

[macefamily]

In one week I'll be flying to FL. I am frightened to get on a metal tube with total strangers for two hours and share our breath, but I will be wearing a mask full time. I will also have my sanitary wipes which I will wipe everything in my seating area. In PA, there has been no shortage of masks, wipes, or gloves. Plenty of supplies to go around for everyone.

 

[Joesixtoe]

I believe your trying to reduce viral load or how much of the virus you take in at once so your body can fight it off. Mask have different sorts of fabric that can stop some of the virus, plus distancing. Distance being your obvious best bet... time, distance, shielding essentially.

 

[The Mom]

In one week I'll be flying to FL. I am frightened to get on a metal tube with total strangers for two hours and share our breath, but I will be wearing a mask full time. I will also have my sanitary wipes which I will wipe everything in my seating area. In PA, there has been no shortage of masks, wipes, or gloves. Plenty of supplies to go around for everyone.

Could you bring some wipes for me? j/k I have enough masks (made my own) and gloves(had a couple of boxes before this began) but still can't find wipes - although I only go to one grocery store every week or so.

 

[DisneyCane]

Wow. What a paragraph. Sounds like science at its best. As more data comes in you adjust your findings. To say some organization recommended something then changed their position, do you even know how science works?
Glad to know that you do wear one when you can’t social distance, that’s something anyway.
Terrible person and wanting everyone to die? Don’t you think that’s a little much?

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspa.2020.0376

What this study says is, basically, if there was 100% mask usage when people are in public around people outside of their household, even at 50% efficiency of the mask, it would reduce the transmission spread below the rate of 1 additional person per infected person, which means the virus spread would essentially be stopped.

And there was a reason why those two organizations didn't recommend mask usage right away, and it had nothing to do with them not knowing they worked. Quite the opposite, actually.

4 months ago the general population was not told the truth - ie, lied to - in an effort to stop people from hoarding masks that were needed more by medical workers and patients than the average citizen. They were definitely going to be exposed - we might. And even then they knew that any mask was better than no mask. Unfortunately, past experience had shown that many people just can't help themselves when it comes to watching out for #1 and the rest of the population be damned.

If you've tried to purchase certain products lately you can understand the concern - I still can't find Clorox wipes or hand wipes at my local grocery, although toilet paper is available - but not every time, and not always my usual brand.

The science of masks stopping droplets hasn't changed, although masks have improved over time. There is a reason that surgeons have been wearing masks for over a century - the masks may have changed, but the original purpose has not.


Surgical mask
A surgical mask, also known as a face mask, is intended to be worn by health professionals during healthcare procedures. It is designed to prevent infections in patients and treating personnel by catching bacteria shed in liquid droplets and aerosols from the wearer's mouth and nose.Wikipedia

Again. Not what I asked. Is there new “science” about masks?

I am gonna stop though because we both know the answer.

As @The Mom pointed out, we were deliberately misled. Nothing changed except messaging.

I think we need a little distinction here. There is a huge difference between an actual "mask" and a "face covering." A "mask" that is designed for a function and tested to make sure it performs that function will do what it is designed to do. An N95 mask will filter out 95% of virus sized particles. A surgical mask will prevent droplets from exiting the nose and mouth of the wearer to whatever degree they were designed to.

The general public wearing N95s or surgical masks correctly would certainly reduce virus spread by some significant degree.

That said, turning a random piece of fabric into a "face covering" is not proven to do anything helpful and could actually be harmful. If people wear a fishing mask that is designed for comfort and to block UV rays, it is likely doing next to nothing to prevent viral spread. If the wearer thinks it is doing something they may forego social distancing and be more likely to spread the virus.

It doesn't take an expert to know that different fabrics will behave differently with respect to preventing spread. My problem is the "mask cult" mantra of "wear a mask to save lives" when the masks many people are wearing likely to do very little to save lives.

My opinion is that if people were drilled to follow social distancing but didn't wear cloth face coverings it would do far more to prevent spread then people thinking they can wrap a paper towel around their head and that's all they have to do. If you don't think a large number of people believe that then just observe people. The messaging leads people to believe that if they wear a "mask," they are doing their part and that's all they need to do in order to be a good person that cares about their fellow man.

 

[mickeymiss]

Lysol wipes have been sold out since April. We are rationing the one container we have had since January. I'm 95% sure the shortage is due to people wiping down their groceries and it frustrates me. Medical experts have repeatedly said not to do that. Think about it though. It explains why they are still sold out. You would go through a lot of wipes doing that.

I just want one stinking container for my usual cleaning.

 

[Heppenheimer]

BTW, calling the initial recommendation not to wear a mask a "lie" is a bit of a distortion. It is true that they didn't want to see a run on limited supplies, but we didn't have clear data yet back in March just how contagious the virus is and the fact that people generally have the highest viral shedding load before they even develop symptoms. And that recommendation came out when the number of cases was still extremely low compared to today. Like a lot of things in medicine, particularly with a novel disease, sometimes you have to balance risks against a backdrop of incomplete information.

I generally give the health authorities the benefit of the doubt that they're making good faith decisions, even if as more information emerges those decisions in retrospect turn out to be incorrect. I would rather trust a process that has mechanisms for self-correction than one that insists on staking and maintaining dogmatic and inflexible positions.

 

[robhedin]

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspa.2020.0376

What this study says is, basically, if there was 100% mask usage when people are in public around people outside of their household, even at 50% efficiency of the mask, it would reduce the transmission spread below the rate of 1 additional person per infected person, which means the virus spread would essentially be stopped.

And there was a reason why those two organizations didn't recommend mask usage right away, and it had nothing to do with them not knowing they worked. Quite the opposite, actually.

This study is still about PPE and N45 masks. It wasn't conducted with non-medical grade equipment. They DO talk about consumer face masks being used pragmatically, but DON'T quantify the efficacy of them. It's probable they're better than nothing, but no studies have been done to that effect. They point out that if you use two paper towels and some kleenex as a face mask you can get 90% of the efficacy of a medical grade mask, but that doesn't account for it's longevity -- how long is that kleenex going to last?

The ask for a study on consumer grade face masks is a red herring anyway. Consumer masks aren't consistent. The only conclusion possible -- at least today -- is that if medical masks definitely are good, then any mask should provide some help and are likely better than not wearing one to limit the spread of contagion.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Can you point me in the direction of mask science changing? Masks didn’t stop droplets 4 months ago, but now they do?

It didn’t change which is why healthcare providers required patients with cold or flu-like symptoms to wear mask well before SARS-CoV-2.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Actually, the Dutch equivalent of the CDC is against wearing masks in public because it gives people a feeling of false safety. They say focussing on social distancing is more important.

Not an unreasonable take.

People need to be smarter.

However they are not...as this thread proves. At least not collectively. I can only speak for my country: who has lost near all its ability to make common sense choices in the greater self interest and have a sense of community.

...and the band played on.

Wow. What a paragraph. Sounds like science at its best. As more data comes in you adjust your findings. To say some organization recommended something then changed their position, do you even know how science works?
Glad to know that you do wear one when you can’t social distance, that’s something anyway.
Terrible person and wanting everyone to die? Don’t you think that’s a little much?

He said Florida had it kicked in April.

Which obviously they did as they rocked an 18% positivity rate on 7/4 and have proceeded to export it to other states like a cash crop...

Nothing to worry about though...we’re 100% sure that there isn’t any long term/lasting side effect...let’s get some dole whip!!

Can you point me in the direction of mask science changing? Masks didn’t stop droplets 4 months ago, but now they do?

They had a supply problem. Sometimes the world has problems that aren’t magically wished away with an indignant or combative attitude.

Exactly.

Exactly what? You wanted to take them out of the hands of nurses, doctors, and EMTs??

What a guy...


And the wheel continues to spin...

 

[Disstevefan1]

Actually, the Dutch equivalent of the CDC is against wearing masks in public because it gives people a feeling of false safety. They say focussing on social distancing is more important.

This is all guess work by everyone, but I always thought masks were more effective than distancing.

 

[Touchdown]

So because the public was mislead in March because supplies were short and healthcare workers needed them, 3 months later when we have plenty of supplies we shouldn’t wear masks because of that lie; yup checks out totally logical.

Of course other guidelines have been consistent throughout (6 ft social distancing, avoid large gatherings, stay home as much as possible) and everyone ignores them too so...

 

[xdan0920]

Exactly what? You wanted to take them out of the hands of nurses, doctors, and EMTs??

What a guy...


And the wheel continues to spin...

I know you like to be dramatic, but try not to move past dramatic into ridiculous.

Homemade masks seem to be fine. FWIW, only only one area of this country had PPE issues.

Like I said, when the messaging is inconsistent, when the rules are dumb, people will stop listening.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Nothing to worry about though...we’re 100% sure that there isn’t any long term/lasting side effect...let’s get some dole whip!!
They had a supply problem. Sometimes the world has problems that aren’t magically wished away with an indignant or combative attitude.

Exactly what? You wanted to take them out of the hands of nurses, doctors, and EMTs??

And the wheel continues to spin...

When we eventually have a vaccine, just wait for the firestorm when the manufacturers report that they can't just magically produce 1 billion doses at the snap of a finger, or this being a Disney site, the sprinkling of fairy dust.