Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

[October82]

Haven’t we tested more people than any other country?

This isn't a competition. What matters is the testing rate per capita. How many cases do you catch and isolate before they spread.

Half the country is not going to want contact tracing and you can’t force that on people.

This is kind of like saying "half the population of Florida disagrees with hurricanes and we can't force them to prepare for one." Technically true but pretty meaningless. Without contact tracing, we will not be able to solve this problem. It is not a political or negotiable point. This is a virus, not something we can disagree with on ideological grounds.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Maybe yes, maybe no. No one to know if the numbers are reliable, particularly from communist governments, the third world, and countries with different philosophies. There is no doubt some countries emphasize testing and many don’t even test.

This is utter nonsense. Other countries, particularly in Europe, are very transparent with their data. It's back to business in many places while here our hospitals are filling thanks to our lack of inability to get a handle on this. Why else do you think the EU has no interest in us, Russia or Brazil visiting? We three are the worst in the world, while everyone else managed to get a hold of it.

 

[schuelma]

Maybe yes, maybe no. No one to know if the numbers are reliable, particularly from communist governments, the third world, and countries with different philosophies. There is no doubt some countries emphasize testing and many don’t even test.

"The US is trending towards 200k deaths by October, but maybe we're doing fine? Whose to say?"

 

[lazyboy97o]

Doctors aren’t the only people with brains and they are also super biased because of the oath. Nothing wrong with it, btw...but their respective is skewed. Real world mostly works on utility, not pure morality.

If we valued human life above all else with no exceptions, we wouldn’t allow cars or air travel because the deaths would be unacceptable.

That’s a nice attempt at distraction. Doctors aren’t oblivious to risks but like so many you were trying to tell a doctor he had no understanding of the virus.

 

[Miss Bella]

In that case, most people will find 143k deaths quite tragic and disheartening, even if it's due to a virus that only kills some of the people it infects. If you don't, there's nothing anyone can say to you to change your mind about the value of human life.

What would be an acceptable way for me to think? I’m guessing I should be in favor of everything staying shut down? If I thought like that then in your opinion I would truly value human life?

 

[lazyboy97o]

What would be an acceptable way for me to think? I’m guessing I should be in favor of everything staying shut down? If I thought like that then in your opinion I would truly value human life?

If you get cases low and the systems in place there is no need to stay locked down.

 

[Miss Bella]

This isn't a competition. What matters is the testing rate per capita. How many cases do you catch and isolate before they spread.



This is kind of like saying "half the population of Florida disagrees with hurricanes and we can't force them to prepare for one." Technically true but pretty meaningless. Without contact tracing, we will not be able to solve this problem. It is not a political or negotiable point. This is a virus, not something we can disagree with on ideological grounds.

I have no control over contact tracing. I don’t even have an opinion on it. I just know people aren’t going to go for it.

 

[Touchdown]

Maybe yes, maybe no. No one to know if the numbers are reliable, particularly from communist governments, the third world, and countries with different philosophies. There is no doubt some countries emphasize testing and many don’t even test.

We can trust European numbers, we look pathetic compared to them especially with our added benefits of less population density and getting the pandemic later.

Also, the economy isn’t rebounding like it was expected from the open now side, that’s because the majority of the population in this country must be doctors I guess, because they’re staying home not helping the economy.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I have no control over contact tracing. I don’t even have an opinion on it. I just know people aren’t going to go for it.

People already go for it. It’s not a new thing.

 

[chrisvee]

“In fact, mandates are essential, a new study finds. Using statistical analysis, it concludes that 40,000 lives would have been saved in two months if a national mask mandate for employees of public-facing businesses had gone into effect on April 1 and had been strictly obeyed. The analysis was for the months of April and May; presumably even more lives would have been saved if a mandate had been in place up to the present.”

Mandatory Mask Use Could Have Saved 40k Lives

 

[Miss Bella]

If you get cases low and the systems in place there is no need to stay locked down.

A lot of states accomplished that and then had outbreaks Some states have still had very few cases. I have no idea what the future holds for Europe no one does.

 

[Miss Bella]

People already go for it. It’s not a new thing.

I never said it was new. I know not everyone is going to go for it.

 

[October82]

What would be an acceptable way for me to think? I’m guessing I should be in favor of everything staying shut down? If I thought like that then in your opinion I would truly value human life?

Of course, I think, like most people, you do value human life. That was my point that you claimed to have missed. You don't really think that saying more than a hundred thousand dead is somehow okay because the percentage of people who die is small, and at the end of the day, you do think we should take measures to reduce the spread of the virus. You also want life to get back to normal and, if you really pressed me, I'd say that you're posting mainly because that desire for normalcy is a really strong one. We all share it. There's no red and blue teams here.

This isn't ideological for me, but for many people, the question of what we should do has been wrapped up in politics because it's easier to think of it that way than to understand it as a scientific issue with difficult facts about what we have to do. The scientific answer is that we have to reduce the spread of the virus to controllable levels. We know how to do that. As has been repeated ad nauseam it is 1. adequate testing and 2. contact tracing. Measures that help but will not end this are 1) mask wearing and 2) social distancing.

All of these are harder with widespread community transmission, which is why governments have imposed stay at home orders. They get us more quickly to a level of transmission that is controllable while allowing much more normalcy for all of our lives. The rest of the world has done this, while we have fallen on our face fracturing along political lines. But, if you have better solutions to these things, by all means, publish papers in the scientific/economic/policy literature.

 

[October82]

A lot of states accomplished that and then had outbreaks Some states have still had very few cases. I have no idea what the future holds for Europe no one does.

"I don't know" doesn't mean "no one does". Europe has robust and reliable measurements of the spread of the virus, and is using policies to prevent a new round of viral spread that have been proven to work. There are lots of things we don't know about this virus - about its genetics, about the long term health impacts on the young and recovered - but we know a lot about how to stop or slow the spread of viruses in general.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A lot of states accomplished that and then had outbreaks Some states have still had very few cases. I have no idea what the future holds for Europe no one does.

No, they did not. They had the low cases but not the systems for containment.

 

[legwand77]

And this is why we will continue to spin in circles with this, never truly finding a way out, because of prevalent "It's not a big deal...get over it" attitudes like this.

Interesting, primarily since no one is saying "It's not a big deal...get over it" but guess that is not important

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Theres talk building of a possible new strand that is not showing as a positive in the current COVID tests. If this is true...all of these metrics are inaccurate until we incorporate this new strand into our COVID tests.

do you have a source on that? id love to read it.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Miami Dades ICU is at 119% capacity.

Thats a VERY bad thing.

 

[havoc315]

Good news does not fit their narrative. You should know that by now. As far as Arizona it’s not getting worse and we’ve been stable with our capacity over the last week. Actually it’s improved a little. They closed bars and required masks but other than that nothings really changed as far as pulling back.

A LOT has changed. A lot of changed behavior is voluntary, not necessarily in response to a government mandate.

 

[BrianLo]

You’ve gotta he realistic though. Stopping deaths from viruses ain’t happening and never was the case.

Freaking COVID-19 isn’t the first or last virus that will kill people and will likely be around just like the flu. It will probably stop killing and infecting at this rate in the coming years, but it’s something we add to things that kill humans.

Actint like this is the biggest threat to humanity proves you watch too much news. Obesity and smoking are far more dangerous. Hell, the flu is more dangwrous if you want to talk about total number killed. Killed tens of thousands every year with a vaccine and treatment.

Relax, we will get through this but nothing is going to zero and we aren’t going to hide away until it does. Life goes on and thankfully, people are starting to see that. Precautions and move on. Scared, option to stay home. People have to work and live life. We’ve don’t it with plenty of dangers in the world.

I was mostly referring to the increase from baseline or excess deaths. Which are largely unnecessary and preventable. Just because other primary and secondary preventative health crisis (obesity, smoking) are important does not minimize the risk of this one.

It is a lofty goal, but I'll even settle for "under control". I did not suggest people need to hide away until it is over. This is not an all or none situation. Low + Stable and/or declining is achievable.

Obviously you do not personally know me. Don't mistake my concern for the social media degradation of public health opinion with me being personally afraid of COVID. Frankly, I'm probably too far on the opposite end of the spectrum. Nor am I really influenced by American Media - nor did I say anywhere this was the biggest threat to humanity.