Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

[fngoofy]

Around 7500 people die daily in this country of something besides Covid. I would love to eliminate death, call me irrational but that isn't likely going to happen. The number of deaths in Florida is not good as any deaths are not good.

Not sure of your point. You are right, 7,708 died every day in 2017. The leading causes in order were Heart Disease, Cancer, and Accidents.
Some more preventable than others.
The Covid deaths are/were preventable.

Had we had better leadership, we could be on a better footing right now, but for now if you distance, wear a mask, don't do unnecessary things like going to theme parks, we'd get to a better place in this country.

 

[G00fyDad]

Around 7500 people die daily, over 50,000 weekly in this country of something besides Covid. I would love to eliminate death, call me irrational but that isn't likely going to happen. The number of deaths in Florida are not great as any death is not good

You're just being pedantic now. You know that there is a difference in the deaths related to COVID19 and someone dying in a car accident or some other non-COVID related incident. Yes. We know people die all the time. But the general idea in the Florida (and apparently national) government is "So what? If you die then you die."

 

[fngoofy]

To early to say imho. There have been a few worse.

Are you saying Florida's handling of this has been good? Because it has been among the worst.

 

[havoc315]

Around 7500 people die daily in this country of something besides Covid. I would love to eliminate death, call me irrational but that isn't likely going to happen. The number of deaths in Florida is not good as any deaths are not good.

The goal is to avoid preventable deaths.

About 200,000 people are expected to die in Florida each year.

With proper management, only a few hundred people in Florida would die in total from Covid.. maybe a few thousand.

So instead of good planning that might limit total additional deaths to under 3,000... you're ok with some horrible planning that results in between 9,000 and 33,000 deaths by the end of the year. (Per IHME projections).

The idea, "well... 200,000 people are going to die anyway.. so who cares if it's 233,000 instead.." -- That's not planning I support.

 

[schuelma]

Around 7500 people die daily, over 50,000 weekly in this country of something besides Covid. I would love to eliminate death, call me irrational but that isn't likely going to happen. The number of deaths in Florida are not great as any death is not good

And heeere we go

A week ago "deaths aren't spiking, Florida, Disney World is fine"

Now: "ok deaths are spiking...BUT PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY"

I think you've officially ran out of goalposts to move

 

[havoc315]

Are you saying Florida's handling of this has been good? Because it has been among the worst.

Lots of different places have made lots of different mistakes at different times.
New York, for example, made some horrible mistakes early, because they were canary in the coal mine. They were the first to experience major community spread... and they weren't even aware that the virus was in the USA until there were already thousands of cases in New York.

But from the time frame of mid-April to today, it's hard to name any place that really did a worse job than Florida. (Though some were just as bad).

For example, since mid April, New York daily cases have dropped about 90% -- a 90% drop WHILE a massive increase in testing
Florida, since mid April -- approximately a 1000% increase in daily cases.

 

[Lilofan]

Actually, at least the loud guy in the blue shirt came up from Fort Lauderdale. We won't claim him here in Windermere

If the loud ignorant guy in the video kept going off and his behavior got worse, his employment could have fired him. There was an insurance agent confronted by store staff in a store he was shopping in in FL recently to remind him to wear his mask. He went ballistic and his actions were captured in video. His employer promptly fired him. Hilarious way to get fired.

 

[legwand77]

Are you saying Florida's handling of this has been good? Because it has been among the worst.

All I said was it is to early to say and there are a few worse

 

[legwand77]

The goal is to avoid preventable deaths.

About 200,000 people are expected to die in Florida each year.

With proper management, only a few hundred people in Florida would die in total from Covid.. maybe a few thousand.

So instead of good planning that might limit total additional deaths to under 3,000... you're ok with some horrible planning that results in between 9,000 and 33,000 deaths by the end of the year. (Per IHME projections).

The idea, "well... 200,000 people are going to die anyway.. so who cares if it's 233,000 instead.." -- That's not planning I support.

Would love to prevent other diseases, would love to prevent those too, not an either or.

 

[havoc315]

And heeere we go

A week ago "deaths aren't spiking, Florida, Disney World is fine"

Now: "ok deaths are spiking...BUT PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY"

I think you've officially ran out of goalposts to move

And heeere we go

A week ago "deaths aren't spiking, Florida, Disney World is fine"

Now: "ok deaths are spiking...BUT PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY"

I think you've officially ran out of goalposts to move

Just 8 days ago, he cited that deaths were decreasing nationwide:

Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

The death fudging is going the other way. We aren't missing deaths, we are ascribing too many to Covid. And using excess deaths as a barometer is completely wrong headed. How many of those excess deaths are lockdown related, and not Covid related? That's a toll we may never know the reality of...

forums.wdwmagic.com

Or just 2 weeks ago, DisneyCane arguing that Florida wasn't showing a "perceptible" increase in deaths:

Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

Why? If the procedures they are putting in place were determined to be safe with 1,000 new cases per day in the state then why don't they work with 9,000 new cases? It was pretty much guaranteed that there would be some people who had the virus at WDW. Why does it matter that there might be...

forums.wdwmagic.com

So we went from, "deaths are decreasing" and "deaths aren't increasing much" -- As a reason against additional preventative measures. Now, death is explicitly increasing lots, so it becomes, "well.... people die anyway. So who cares about a few thousand more"

 

[DisneyDebRob]

On the Windermere thing, you will get some extreme, unintelligent reactions when you impose the extreme measures that were done back in April. I've always said that if, at the very beginning, all businesses were allowed to operate with distancing and reduced capacity then you wouldn't have this type of backlash. Face coverings would have been widely accepted as a follow on when the CDC recommended them if they were presented as a way to not have to take draconian measures.

On the question of this thread, there is no reason for WDW to close back down unless there is evidence of significant spread happening on the property despite the procedures and protections in place. It doesn't matter if there are 5 million cases per day in Florida (although that would lead to pretty quick herd immunity), as long as the measures taken at WDW are effective there is no reason to shut down.

I'm sure some people will get infected on property but the key is that it isn't a major source of spread. Calls to close down because of Florida's case count (which is largely a Southeast Florida problem over 200 miles from WDW), are really just coming from the attitude of "nobody should be having any fun while people are dying."

Did I just see the new goal posts? 5 million a day? Doesn’t matter? Just checking because everyday it’s something new.

 

[havoc315]

Would love to prevent other diseases, would love to prevent those too, not an either or.

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Heart attacks and cancer are not prevented by wearing a mask or by social distancing.

 

[legwand77]

Lots of different places have made lots of different mistakes at different times.
New York, for example, made some horrible mistakes early, because they were canary in the coal mine. They were the first to experience major community spread... and they weren't even aware that the virus was in the USA until there were already thousands of cases in New York.

But from the time frame of mid-April to today, it's hard to name any place that really did a worse job than Florida. (Though some were just as bad).

For example, since mid April, New York daily cases have dropped about 90% -- a 90% drop WHILE a massive increase in testing
Florida, since mid April -- approximately a 1000% increase in daily cases.

Like I said too early to tell, and your example is just picking an arbitrary date.

 

[DisneyCane]

Lots of different places have made lots of different mistakes at different times.
New York, for example, made some horrible mistakes early, because they were canary in the coal mine. They were the first to experience major community spread... and they weren't even aware that the virus was in the USA until there were already thousands of cases in New York.

But from the time frame of mid-April to today, it's hard to name any place that really did a worse job than Florida. (Though some were just as bad).

For example, since mid April, New York daily cases have dropped about 90% -- a 90% drop WHILE a massive increase in testing
Florida, since mid April -- approximately a 1000% increase in daily cases.

Until proven otherwise, my suspicion continues to be that the sheer number of cases NY had during the peak is the reason the cases are staying low now as a huge number of people are removed from being potential carriers and spreaders. Same with the European countries that had bad outbreaks.

My logic comes partially from looking at NY and CA. Both had extreme lockdowns. NY is low and steady on reopening but CA is spiking. Difference is that CA had far fewer cases back in March/April.

I will not be surprised at all if, after this spike in Florida, the cases return to a "low and steady" state by mid August.

 

[DisneyCane]

Did I just see the new goal posts? 5 million a day? Doesn’t matter? Just checking because everyday it’s something new.

I was making an extreme exaggeration with respect to my point about WDW.

 

[legwand77]

And heeere we go

A week ago "deaths aren't spiking, Florida, Disney World is fine"

Now: "ok deaths are spiking...BUT PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY"

I think you've officially ran out of goalposts to move

Deaths are not spiking, they have risen but not spiking. I have been saying for the past few weeks deaths will be going up a bit, especially with the backlog of deaths being added some days. It is all relative.

 

[legwand77]

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Heart attacks and cancer are not prevented by wearing a mask or by social distancing.

Pneumonia, flu and many other diseases are, and there are many other things that could be mandated to prevented or improve ones chances of getting cancer and/or heart attacks taht have better science to show improvement.

 

[havoc315]

Until proven otherwise, my suspicion continues to be that the sheer number of cases NY had during the peak is the reason the cases are staying low now as a huge number of people are removed from being potential carriers and spreaders. Same with the European countries that had bad outbreaks.

My logic comes partially from looking at NY and CA. Both had extreme lockdowns. NY is low and steady on reopening but CA is spiking. Difference is that CA had far fewer cases back in March/April.

I will not be surprised at all if, after this spike in Florida, the cases return to a "low and steady" state by mid August.

The science and stats suggest that the large prior spread *contributes* to the significance of the decline and current case counts. But it is likely only a minor contributor.... Seroprevalence is still under 20% in New York. So the vast majority of New Yorkers have never been exposed.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Deaths are not spiking, they have risen but not spiking. I have been saying for the past few weeks deaths will be going up a bit, especially with the backlog of deaths being added some days. It is all relative.

It's tricky to determine if a death is caused by COVID sometimes. I know in some Florida hospitals, they are calling a person COVID positive if they exhibit COVID like symptoms without testing to play it safe.

As for deaths "caused by COVID" I suspect there is some guess work also. An unhealthy person could have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel not related to COVID, and was maybe called COVID positive by symptoms and not tests.

When it doubt, call it a death by COVID to play it safe.

 

[legwand77]

It's tricky to determine if a death is caused by COVID sometimes. I know in some Florida hospitals, they are calling a person COVID positive if they exhibit COVID like symptoms without testing to play it safe.

As for deaths "caused by COVID" I suspect there is some guess work also. An unhealthy person could have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel not related to COVID, and was maybe called COVID positive by symptoms and not tests.

When it doubt, call it a death by COVID to play it safe.

Yes, I agree best to play it safe