DisneylandForward

[mickEblu]

I think they are trying to thread the needle here with the community. Adding a 3rd gate might sound good to us fans, but maybe not to Anaheim residents who think Disney is already too big and would complain. Easier to sell park expansion to the existing parks rather than a whole new theme park. "No, no this is not us adding a new theme park, its just expanding what is already there.....". Its a fine line I know but it makes a difference when you're selling. Not to mention that it sounds better to the City that you're investing for many years rather than just one single new gate.

Anyways, remember this is just to get approval for rezoning. They could theoretically still do a 3rd gate out of the new land expansion if they choose.

I don’t see why it would matter to the residents whether the additions coming are part of the two existing parks or if they re labeled as a third gate. The noise is going to be the noise. The land Disney owns and will be utilizing will be the same either way. The people are going to come either way. Sure there would be a little more pandemonium that comes with a third park especially at first. So what is the issue really? That Harbor, Ball and Katella would have a little bit more traffic?

 

[Disney Irish]

I don’t see why it would matter to the residents whether the additions coming are part of the two existing parks or if they re labeled as a third gate. The noise is going to be the noise. The land Disney owns and will be utilizing will be the same either way. The people are going to come either way. Sure there would be a little more pandemonium that comes with a third park especially at first. So what is the issue really? That Harbor, Ball and Katella would have a little bit more traffic?

I'm just looking at it from a trying to sell the project to the community perspective. You could be right that the community doesn't care. I've just heard on this site and others that the community has not been too keen with any Disney expansion due to major increased traffic and tourists. So selling it as an existing footprint expansion not a whole 3rd gate seems like an easier sell to me.

But really what is the difference if its 3rd gate or expansion of the existing park footprint. The overall resort increases either way. And we still get more stuff to do and without an extra ticket purchase if its just expansion.

Not to mention that even if its a 3rd gate there is no guarantee its all built out at one time anyways, it can still be staggered. I don't see any real gain of it being a 3rd gate over existing park expansion.

 

[mickEblu]

I'm just looking at it from a trying to sell the project to the community perspective. You could be right that the community doesn't care. I've just heard on this site and others that the community has not been too keen with any Disney expansion due to major increased traffic and tourists. So pselling it as an existing footprint expansion not a whole 3rd gate seems like an easier sell to me.

But really what is the difference if its 3rd gate or expansion of the existing park footprint. The overall resort increases either way. And we still get more stuff to do and without an extra ticket purchase if its just expansion.

Not to mention that even if its a 3rd gate there is no guarantee its all built out at one time anyways, it can still be staggered. I don't see any real gain of it being a 3rd gate over existing park expansion.

I think it’s just the perception it would give people. You and I know that it will be a few single IP lands from the Simba lot to DLR expansion space. But a third park is obviously a bigger draw for the masses. I think either way we’ll be paying for it. They’ll obviously increase ticket prices accordingly and incrementally as they roll out the expansions to DCA and Disneyland. But one way you’re marketing Zootopia land and one an entire third park. I’ve lived though Galaxies Edge and Avengers Canpus and both were underwhelming in many ways. I can only imagine Zootopia or Moana land. I’d say build a good park and create a real buzz and ride out that momentum. You’ve also helped brand yourself as a real resort destination. As opposed to opening a bunch of single IP lands in phases where the buzz fades faster than this winters seasonal churro. Now whether they have the desire or capital to do that right now is another story.

 

[TP2000]

I see they're still using the old Covid-era vague and purposely hazy images shown from about 5,000 feet overhead to sell this idea to the locals. They've got no new artwork to show? No designers left on staff? Still flogging the idea of a Tangled ride?

Just as a reality check, I'll put these previous "Official!" announcements from the 2010's here for folks to get excited about...

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2016/08/new-disneyland-resort-eastern-gateway-coming-in-2018/

Video: Disney Resort to build new 7-story parking structure, elevated walkway ahead of ‘Star Wars’ land

ANAHEIM – Disney intends to construct a transportation hub, a massive parking structure and a pedestrian bridge over Harbor Boulevard connecting them with Disneyland and Disney California Adv…

www.ocregister.com

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2017/10/new-hotel-disneyland-resort/

Disneyland Resort plans another luxury hotel

ANAHEIM – To take advantage of the city’s new policy giving tax incentives to build luxury hotels, Disneyland officials submitted plans Tuesday to add a fourth Disney-themed hotel at th…

www.ocregister.com

 

[Disney Irish]

I think it’s just the perception it would give people. You and I know that it will be a few single IP lands from the Simba lot to DLR expansion space. But a third park is obviously a bigger draw for the masses. I think either way we’ll be paying for it. They’ll obviously increase ticket prices accordingly and incrementally as they roll out the expansions to DCA and Disneyland. But one way you’re marketing Zootopia land and one an entire third park. I’ve lived though Galaxies Edge and Avengers Canpus and both were underwhelming in many ways. I can only imagine Zootopia or Moana land. I’d say build a good park and create a real buzz and ride out that momentum. You’ve also helped brand yourself as a real resort destination. As opposed to opening a bunch of single IP lands in phases where the buzz fades faster than this winters seasonal churro. Now whether they have the desire or capital to do that right now is another story.

Anything new can create buzz as long as its compelling to the masses. There is no indication that a 3rd gate would create more buzz over an expansion. In reality its all about what is being marketed and how its being marketed that creates the buzz. Also there is no indication that a 3rd gate would have longer momentum than expansion.

On price increases, yes of course they'll increase prices accordingly. But again perception is key here. Its easier to sell price increases for 2 parks when there is more to do vs having to shell out for another ticket. Disney already has the perception problem of pricing out most of the country for WDW with its 4 gates, you don't want to start adding that perception for DLR too by adding a 3rd.

You're also making the assumption that if it was a 3rd gate that it would be a full build out right away, there is no indication that would be true. As Disney is still more inclined to do a phased rolled out to save on costs just like they do with new lands and expansions. Not to mention that even if it is a 3rd gate it'll likely still be the same single IP lands that you're afraid of with the expansion.

Having more "stuff" in general allows them to brand as a "real resort destination", as there will be not only the expansions but also the new shopping district with its own experiences and new hotels. So it can still be marketed as a vacation destination for a 3-5 day stay.

I also just don't think Disney is really wanting to do a 3rd gate anyways, and for some of the same reasons I've given. I mean things could have changed, but Iger had already publicly shot down the idea of a 3rd gate not too long ago. That was when the famous, and I'm paraphrasing here, "we have more land available to us for expansion within the existing parks footprint than anyone is aware" comment was said, and that obviously is where DisneylandForward come from.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I see they're still using the old Covid-era vague and purposely hazy images shown from about 5,000 feet overhead to sell this idea to the locals. They've got no new artwork to show? No designers left on staff? Still flogging the idea of a Tangled ride?

Just as a reality check, I'll put these previous "Official!" announcements from the 2010's here for folks to get excited about...

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2016/08/new-disneyland-resort-eastern-gateway-coming-in-2018/

Video: Disney Resort to build new 7-story parking structure, elevated walkway ahead of ‘Star Wars’ land

ANAHEIM – Disney intends to construct a transportation hub, a massive parking structure and a pedestrian bridge over Harbor Boulevard connecting them with Disneyland and Disney California Adv…

www.ocregister.com

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2017/10/new-hotel-disneyland-resort/

Disneyland Resort plans another luxury hotel

ANAHEIM – To take advantage of the city’s new policy giving tax incentives to build luxury hotels, Disneyland officials submitted plans Tuesday to add a fourth Disney-themed hotel at th…

www.ocregister.com

I'm not sure of what point you're making. With regard to Disneyland Forward, there is no chicanery here if one has been following this development and paid attention to the article posted from the Register...

The long-term planning proposal covering the next four decades of Disneyland development dangles possible projects based on Black Panther, Coco, Frozen, Zootopia, Tangled, Peter Pan, Toy Story and Tron as the types of lands and attractions Anaheim is missing out on under current city planning and zoning guidelines.​

The concept art was always meant to be an example, and not something DLR is beholden to or is promising. They just want the zoning permissions to go ahead with whatever ever-shifting plans they have without having to get a zoning variance for each building/attraction.

 

[MagicHK]

I'm not sure of what point you're making. With regard to Disneyland Forward, there is no chicanery here if one has been following this development and paid attention to the article posted from the Register...

The long-term planning proposal covering the next four decades of Disneyland development dangles possible projects based on Black Panther, Coco, Frozen, Zootopia, Tangled, Peter Pan, Toy Story and Tron as the types of lands and attractions Anaheim is missing out on under current city planning and zoning guidelines.​

The concept art was always meant to be an example, and not something DLR is beholden to or is promising. They just want the zoning permissions to go ahead with whatever ever-shifting plans they have without having to get a zoning variance for each building/attraction.

This is my guess:

 

[TP2000]

I'm not sure of what point you're making. With regard to Disneyland Forward, there is no chicanery here if one has been following this development and paid attention to the article posted from the Register...

The long-term planning proposal covering the next four decades of Disneyland development dangles possible projects based on Black Panther, Coco, Frozen, Zootopia, Tangled, Peter Pan, Toy Story and Tron as the types of lands and attractions Anaheim is missing out on under current city planning and zoning guidelines.​

The concept art was always meant to be an example, and not something DLR is beholden to or is promising. They just want the zoning permissions to go ahead with whatever ever-shifting plans they have without having to get a zoning variance for each building/attraction.

I fully understand all of that. But an "official" press release means absolutely nothing when it comes to Disneyland's future. Or any sort of future from the Parks division, really.

I'm just surprised that in 2024 they haven't bothered to update their three year old vague and hazy concept art from 2021, and I'm also surprised that some people think this is a guarantee of something for an unknown future date when it's not. I also chuckle at some of the younger folks here thinking that construction starts in a year or two, when it doesn't and it won't.

The cheap and lazy PR route they are taking now with this Disneyland Forward plan doesn't bode well for its real future.

Check back in 2032.

 

[Ismael Flores]

also the up to 3 pedestrian bridges ocnnecting the new parking with the resort.....where would the 3 bridges go?

I believe they meant three new bridges total but only one would connect the new Eastside parking garage and new entry. The other two would be on the west side connecting disneyland and DCA to the expansion areas like the concept art shows.
They were also considering adding crossing bridges to add. Safety net for pedestrians.
the city at one point wanted to remove the crosswalk on harbor. The one next to disney property. Have everyone walk on eastern side for business and motels or go directly vi bridge to new east parking garage and security area

 

[Ismael Flores]

I could swear an image exists in this thread or on this board that gives you an idea, but the company owns and/or has options on some of the skinny plots on the east side of Harbor. That will manifest into the Harbor crossings.

I wonder if they will modify the security perimeter to orient at the parking decks. I am imagining pretty much every surface spot on the west side of the resort is toast. Will buses feed through the Eastern gateway as well? Not a whole lot of land but if you want those 2 or 3 acres to ever be park development, you gotta grab it now.

They really want to move all security away from park entrances. The new garage area includes a permanent security section as well as bus and shuttle stops. The old shuttle nd bus stop would be demolished

 

[Disney Irish]

I fully understand all of that. But an "official" press release means absolutely nothing when it comes to Disneyland's future. Or any sort of future from the Parks division, really.

I'm just surprised that in 2024 they haven't bothered to update their three year old vague and hazy concept art from 2021, and I'm also surprised that some people think this is a guarantee of something for an unknown future date when it's not. I also chuckle at some of the younger folks here thinking that construction starts in a year or two, when it doesn't and it won't.

The cheap and lazy PR route they are taking now with this Disneyland Forward plan doesn't bode well for its real future.

Check back in 2032.

I know you're overly pessimistic regarding anything Disney does these days. However if this gets approved by Anaheim in May I would imagine that it would be at least talked about during D23 in August. And who knows maybe they have plans ready to go once it is approved to be shown as well.

The fact they are moving forward with anything regarding this should be taken at least as a positive sign. And at the very least I would think they would at least start on the parking structure and Harbor bridge within the next year or two.

 

[Gusey]

I fully understand all of that. But an "official" press release means absolutely nothing when it comes to Disneyland's future. Or any sort of future from the Parks division, really.

I'm just surprised that in 2024 they haven't bothered to update their three year old vague and hazy concept art from 2021, and I'm also surprised that some people think this is a guarantee of something for an unknown future date when it's not. I also chuckle at some of the younger folks here thinking that construction starts in a year or two, when it doesn't and it won't.

The cheap and lazy PR route they are taking now with this Disneyland Forward plan doesn't bode well for its real future.

Check back in 2032.

But why update the concept art until they get the zoning approval and no whether they will be allowed to develop the project? No point commissioning new concept art when you don't know for definite if where you can build a new attraction/shopping/parking etc.

 

[Ismael Flores]

Hmm, that is really interesting. Magic is in the northwest area of the resort. Clementine is right up against I-5. Don’t really see how Hotel or Gene Autry factor but am eminently curious.

Since Clementine only has one other business near Disney way on the south end near where the new structure entrances would be, Disney can use the portion os Clementine that runs right beyond the existing hotel entrance up to where it changes name to Manchester as a direct freeway exit or entrance to and from the 5fwy that would lead directly to and from the structure if they want.

There is also already a direct exit from the freeway unto Disney way.
Basically it is all about making it easier to design direct access to prking and keep cars off street

 

[TP2000]

I know you're overly pessimistic regarding anything Disney does these days. However if this gets approved by Anaheim in May I would imagine that it would be at least talked about during D23 in August. And who knows maybe they have plans ready to go once it is approved to be shown as well.

I can't wait to see the vague and hazy artwork of unfunded and unapproved projects shown in one image from above at a 5,000 foot elevation that Sidekick Tightpants debuts at VISA D23: The Ultimate Fan Event this summer.

I also can't wait to see if Sidekick Tightpants embraces a wider pantleg to keep with the changing times.

The fact they are moving forward with anything regarding this should be taken at least as a positive sign. And at the very least I would think they would at least start on the parking structure and Harbor bridge within the next year or two.

Don't be silly. That parking structure and transit facility with pedestrian bridge over Harbor was officially announced by Disney back in 2016 and it already opened back in 2018. I have the official Disney press releases and announcements and WDI artwork to prove it.

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2016/08/new-disneyland-resort-eastern-gateway-coming-in-2018/

Video: Disney Resort to build new 7-story parking structure, elevated walkway ahead of ‘Star Wars’ land

ANAHEIM – Disney intends to construct a transportation hub, a massive parking structure and a pedestrian bridge over Harbor Boulevard connecting them with Disneyland and Disney California Adv…

www.ocregister.com

 

[Ismael Flores]

The one thing that is certain is that the proposal commits Disney to make a certain amount of investment for few years and a minimum also within 10 years if zoning changes are approved.
The investment has to be for attractions/entertainment that will increase revenue. Any parking or street investment does not count. If the minimum is mot met than they will have to pay the city few million in fines.
It would also possibly create again an image of unreliability with the city and people.

I think the large investment also gives a Disney, Anaheim and California more ammunition against the petty Desantis fight that most likely caused him his run

 

[CaptinEO]

With any of this stuff I'll believe it when it happens.

 

[DLR92]

It clear Anaheim will receive something. But I’m not that all excited if expansion of new lands and attractions where build and seen at other locations.

 

[Disney Irish]

I can't wait to see the vague and hazy artwork of unfunded and unapproved projects shown in one image from above at a 5,000 foot elevation that Sidekick Tightpants debuts at VISA D23: The Ultimate Fan Event this summer.

I also can't wait to see if Sidekick Tightpants embraces a wider pantleg to keep with the changing times.



Don't be silly. That parking structure and transit facility with pedestrian bridge over Harbor was officially announced by Disney back in 2016 and it already opened back in 2018. I have the official Disney press releases and announcements and WDI artwork to prove it.

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2016/08/new-disneyland-resort-eastern-gateway-coming-in-2018/

Video: Disney Resort to build new 7-story parking structure, elevated walkway ahead of ‘Star Wars’ land

ANAHEIM – Disney intends to construct a transportation hub, a massive parking structure and a pedestrian bridge over Harbor Boulevard connecting them with Disneyland and Disney California Adv…

www.ocregister.com

Snark aside, we already know they can't release any updated concept art until things get approved by Anaheim. So we'll have to wait and see if they do anything if and when it gets approved in May. Maybe it'll be a big nothing burger, or maybe there will be something of substance.

As for the previously announced but not built Pumbaa parking structure, that part I'm fairly confident they will move forward on no matter whether they actually do anything for the rest of the expansion project or not.

 

[TP2000]

Snark aside, we already know they can't release any updated concept art until things get approved by Anaheim. So we'll have to wait and see if they do anything if and when it gets approved in May.

Huh? That's not actually a rule or law that any company has to obey.

Disney can release any updated concept art they want to. But they chose not to for their latest 2024 dog and pony shows for the locals, and instead just recycled the old and very vague concept art they first rolled out in 2021. Three years ago.

Either they really have no idea what they're going to do with this land yet (likely), or they are too cheap to invest any more money into the concept until they actually know what they might do with the land in the 2030's (even more likely).

All of that points to this DisneylandForward thing being a plan in unfunded infancy that will take decades to play out. Sit back and relax kids, this is gonna take awhile...

As for the previously announced but not built Pumbaa parking structure, that part I'm fairly confident they will move forward on no matter whether they actually do anything for the rest of the expansion project or not.

Well, they already planned it out, although they spent the money on it for the Pixar structure instead. But it's mostly ready to go, they just can redo it slightly to abandon any 2010's plans to include Anaheim's cancelled plans for rail mass transit to the facility, and hopefully beef up the area dedicated to Ubers and Lyfts.

Although hopefully they spend more money on the skybridges and design than they originally were going to back in the 2010's, because their initial plans and designs were cheap and ugly. Did they learn that lesson, I hope?

 

[fgmnt]

Either they really have no idea what they're going to do with this land yet (likely), or they are too cheap to invest any more money into the concept until they actually know what they might do with the land in the 2030's (even more likely).

Yeah, I actually think I’m pretty optimistic about theme park borders going west of Disneyland Drive if this plan comes to pass, but there is a zero percent chance those borders expand operationally before like 2033.