News Disneyland Working on Future Master Plan- includes Theme Park Expansions, Retail/Entertainment Space, and More!

[TP2000]

Just curious, why 2030 or 2035?
The LA summer Olympics are 2028. I thought that was the target date.

Hi! Long time no see old friend!

This concept is a massive plan. It involves multiple new lands for multiple parks with multiple E Tickets and also a few smaller attractions and shows. Plus a second entrance plaza and Downtown Disney plussing. The artwork they released last week was the fully completed product, for sometime later in the 2030's (best case scenario, the worst case scenario is 2040 or later), designed to wow the local businesses and impress the Anaheim voters.

This is purely a local political campaign, not a capital expenditure request presented to the Company Board of Directors. Nor was it an actual design plan presented to the Anaheim Planning Commission. It's all local politics with a dash of Disney showmanship.

And as a darkened Disneyland moves toward a post-Covid era, for Anaheim it looks like a breath of fresh air and a lifeline to the future.

In my humble opinion, and @Darkbeer1 may disagree with me or know more that I don't, the best case scenario for 2028's Olympic Summer is for Anaheim to be able to move/hide all the druggie homeless people that arrived in the Resort District in the last 3 years, complete the Eastern Gateway to shift all the buses and Ubers off of Harbor Blvd., and perhaps get a new owner for GardenWalk who doesn't think this is an appropriate design decision for a "World Class Resort District".

Good job Bob Chapek and Michael Colgazier! You really did great by passing on that offer several years ago to buy GardenWalk in its entirety for pennies on the dollar to turn it into a Cast Campus and a pro managed retail/dining center to improve the Resort District!

 

[TP2000]

I do wonder if Disney makes a play for Gardenwalk at some point in order to extend this new shopping district to both north and south of Katella. Build a nice pedestrian bridge, easy peasy (barring any pushback from Anaheim)

That chance literally fell into their laps several years ago. The Dubai firm that was the first place bidder couldn't get their financing approved and had to back out on their first place bid. It went to the second place bidder, which was Disney.

But by that time Bob Chapek and Michael Colglazier got cold feet on investing 20 Million bucks in the concept to turn most of GardenWalk's second floor and much of its overbuilt parking structure into a "Cast Campus" for CM's that would have included CM parking, a CM daycare center, a CM gym and fitness center, a CM healthcare complex and pharmacy, a Disney credit union, plus a bunch of other niceties that CM's would have benefitted from going to/from work like a Starbucks, a dry cleaner, a company store, a subsidized grocery store, a CM service center, etc.

While House of Blues took up the upper level on the north end, and the rest of the center's ground level was rezoned for mostly dining with light retail for tourist use. And the two hotel properties fully developed on both ends to feed tourists into the dining/retail/entertainment on the first level.

But Colglazier thought it was wasteful to spend that kind of money on those lowly CM's who work in the parks. He was above it all. And Chapek is an easy guy to convince to not spend money on theme parks. He had his eye on bigger things, the parks were just a stepping stone for him. Neither of those two men were able or willing to fight for a concept that spent some decent money on actual Cast Members.

So they passed on the offer to scoop up GardenWalk as the second lowball offer. Which meant it went to the third place offer from a group that even lowballed Chapek and Colglazier. Which is why there are neon llamas and tigers sitting in the planters now.

 

[It Is What It Is]

That chance literally fell into their laps several years ago. The Dubai firm that was the first place bidder couldn't get their financing approved and had to back out on their first place bid. It went to the second place bidder, which was Disney.

But by that time Bob Chapek and Michael Colglazier got cold feet on investing 20 Million bucks in the concept to turn most of GardenWalk's second floor and much of its overbuilt parking structure into a "Cast Campus" for CM's that would have included CM parking, a CM daycare center, a CM gym and fitness center, a CM healthcare complex and pharmacy, a Disney credit union, plus a bunch of other niceties that CM's would have benefitted from going to/from work like a Starbucks, a dry cleaner, a company store, a subsidized grocery store, a CM service center, etc.

While House of Blues took up the upper level on the north end, and the rest of the center's ground level was rezoned for mostly dining with light retail for tourist use. And the two hotel properties fully developed on both ends to feed tourists into the dining/retail/entertainment on the first level.

But Colglazier thought it was wasteful to spend that kind of money on those lowly CM's who work in the parks. He was above it all. And Chapek is an easy guy to convince to not spend money on theme parks. He had his eye on bigger things, the parks were just a stepping stone for him. Neither of those two men were able or willing to fight for a concept that spent some decent money on actual Cast Members.

So they passed on the offer to scoop up GardenWalk as the second lowball offer. Which meant it went to the third place offer from a group that even lowballed Chapek and Colglazier. Which is why there are neon llamas and tigers sitting in the planters now.

No questioning the validity of what is written there. But how do shell companies work and why couldn't that third offer be a Disney shell company? Does Disney have shell companies? They definitely had them in the past. Think Walt and purchasing property in Florida. And now? I have no idea, but it's fun to think about!

If Disney is willing to spend 7 million on buying land around their 40 sq. mile WDW property of late (mitigating their environmental conservation agreement for future plans?), spending 80 million on Gardenwalk that connects two big chunks of property they have seems logical. I'm going to assume (yes, call me an that the DF concept idea for a Disney Springs-esque shopping area at Toy Story parking has been around before the last sale of Gardenwalk. If it were an unknown Disney shell company (not much info available on STC Management) no backlash on Disney for not Disney-fying the area.

Hopeful speculation, I won't get my panties in a bunch if it's not the case, but it would seem illogical on Disney's part if they didn't find a way to own it. Gosh, most of their tent pole movies have a bigger budget than 80 million. That property would pay for itself for decades to come. How much shelf life and profit is Marvel's 200 million Black Widow going to get in comparison?

 

[el_super]

Hopeful speculation, I won't get my panties in a bunch if it's not the case, but it would seem illogical on Disney's part if they didn't find a way to own it.

Would it though? There is a bit of sense here at not making a play for it. Gardenwalk is a failing mall, and the prevailing theory here was that Disney would want it as ... mall space. Would putting mickey mouse on everything somehow fix it? What stores would they put in there, another World of Disney? If GardenWalk is having difficulty attracting high-end retail now, how bad would it be when Disney started charging a Disney sized rent?

For 20 years now, that's all we've ever heard about the Garden Walk Space: That Disney should use it to turn it into Downtown Disney South, but in all that time the actual Downtown Disney hasn't grown, and has even shrunk. The new concept for a mall-with-rides may be just the thing to help inject life into Downtown Disney, but they can't really go around saving all the malls in the area now.... can they?

 

[Stevek]

They've had so many opportunities that I don't think they care all that much. The new owners got it at such a good deal that I think they can afford to hold onto it for awhile.

Yep, just wonder if their mindset would change given this latest announcement.

 

[DanielBB8]

This theme park expansion doesn't even address the obvious unfinished parts of Disneyland (Tomorrowland) and DCA (empty plot next to Carsland). Plus, the resort is zoned for 5,400 hotel rooms that will never get fulfilled. There's the Eastern Gateway that should also be considered for theme park expansion or a Eastern Downtown Disney. Toy Story Land? I thought Pixar Pier was supposed to take it's place. Will the new place not have a gate? So it's more like a Shopping District with attractions. Disney is obviously thinking outside the box. Interesting that my idea that there should be a bridge from Critter County to the parking lot might actually be fulfilled with this proposal. There will be multiple entry points into both Disneyland and DCA. Still, I predict low chance it will be built.

All the political intrigue about how Disney will deal with Anaheim is bunk. Mayor Sidhu isn't Mayor Tait. Disney will have to get new approval for this development and WAIT. The environmental laws are killer and I can't imagine Disney wanting to go thru all the bureaucratic hassles when they haven't shown much stomach for it before.

 

[It Is What It Is]

but they can't really go around saving all the malls in the area now.... can they?

Two thoughts: The real estate directly adjacent to Disneyland (or Toy Story) property is in short supply. Get what you can, it gives more options for whatever Imagineers can come up with. Tear down, repurpose, whatever part of Gardenwalk deemed necessary. Two, Parking for Disneyland Springs (my made up name) would most likely need to be the proposed Eastern parking structure. To connect those dots, you've got Gardenwalk. Of owned and even if it was only one big World of Disney East, Disney is making the money from guests walking from proposed Eastern Parking structure to Disneyland Springs. I don't think Disney would want the temptation given for you to get some better deal at Bubba Gump's or California Pizza Kitchen before you get to Disneyland Springs restaurant.

 

[el_super]

Two thoughts: The real estate directly adjacent to Disneyland (or Toy Story) property is in short supply. Get what you can, it gives more options for whatever Imagineers can come up with. Tear down, repurpose, whatever part of Gardenwalk deemed necessary.

I think that's the point: GardenWalk is pretty much locked in as a retail/dining mall with adjacent hotels. They just built a 14 storey hotel right next to it. Even though I don't subscribe to the idea that these are some immutable, unchanging requirements, the idea of buying the property for hundreds of millions of dollars, and then tearing it all down for a hundred million more, just makes it all seem unreasonable. If they really needed a transport corridor, they might be better off buying out the abandoned businesses across Clementine or the hotels on the other side of GardenWalk.

And of course, all of this really only makes sense if they are planning to build a third gate, which I honestly don't think they are.

 

[el_super]

This theme park expansion doesn't even address the obvious unfinished parts of Disneyland (Tomorrowland) and DCA (empty plot next to Carsland). Plus, the resort is zoned for 5,400 hotel rooms that will never get fulfilled. There's the Eastern Gateway that should also be considered for theme park expansion or a Eastern Downtown Disney.

Maybe they can fix Tomorrowland by making it Downtown Disney East.


I can't possibly understand the desire in having more Downtown Disney.

 

[Ismael Flores]

I do wonder if Disney makes a play for Gardenwalk at some point in order to extend this new shopping district to both north and south of Katella. Build a nice pedestrian bridge, easy peasy (barring any pushback from Anaheim)

I would think that if they did it would be mostly to be able to use the permit for the timeshare/condos that are or were suppose to be built over most of the mall. It would be the perfect area for a whole new set of Disney vacation clubs and they could maybe get the city to change of few permits that would allow them to change the use of some of the rest of the mall. If the property can't change permits for that land i doubt it would ever be considered as viable only because it would grow the shopping district too much. I do think that if Disney does follow up with those plans for Toy Story lot, Gardenwalk will get a bigger hit because people will most likely prefer the new Disney area.

 

[Ismael Flores]

not sure if it has been discussed but in that very vague concept art, it looks like there is an area that has some things that look like park entrances. New additions for both parks would in those area could possibly create new park entrances allowing hotel guests to walk less or wait less on a monorail platform

 

[Stevek]

Would it though? There is a bit of sense here at not making a play for it. Gardenwalk is a failing mall, and the prevailing theory here was that Disney would want it as ... mall space. Would putting mickey mouse on everything somehow fix it? What stores would they put in there, another World of Disney? If GardenWalk is having difficulty attracting high-end retail now, how bad would it be when Disney started charging a Disney sized rent?

For 20 years now, that's all we've ever heard about the Garden Walk Space: That Disney should use it to turn it into Downtown Disney South, but in all that time the actual Downtown Disney hasn't grown, and has even shrunk. The new concept for a mall-with-rides may be just the thing to help inject life into Downtown Disney, but they can't really go around saving all the malls in the area now.... can they?

I still think that IF they build the new center in the TS lot there is a way for them to tie both that and GW together as a much more attractive "Disney" property. My gut tells me that Disney-fying it would instantly help it and attract tenants. Downtown Disney really only shrunk because of the planned hotel right? It always seemed to be pretty busy to me pre-covid...maybe moreso on weekends when we went? The question for me is where such an acquisition would fall within the Disney priorities. Assuming they are moving forward with the 3 projects they outlined, any purchase/expansion into GW would likely be well after that.

 

[Stevek]

not sure if it has been discussed but in that very vague concept art, it looks like there is an area that has some things that look like park entrances. New additions for both parks would in those area could possibly create new park entrances allowing hotel guests to walk less or wait less on a monorail platform

Yep, a couple folks called that out. Would be very different of course as I think only Epcot has 2 park entrances here in the US.

 

[mickEblu]

Yep, a couple folks called that out. Would be very different of course as I think only Epcot has 2 park entrances here in the US.

It’s an interesting idea and good for crowd flow but it does kind of ruin the set up of it all. Going under the tracks, down Main Street and to the castle. All of that was designed with a purpose. I guess the monorail into TL already deviated from that except it’s in theme and technically you aren’t walking in. Walking into “Disneyland” from esplanade 2 straight into whatever single IP land can’t possibly be as beautifully designed as the Disneyland entrance. It’s not like they have the room there for another “park entrance land.” And even if they do I doubt that’s how they want to use a good chunk of land. I guess you just have to remind yourself that it’s just some new land addition but I think of the tourists and first timers whose first experience at Disneyland may be walking into Zootopia land from Esplanade 2.

 

[el_super]

I still think that IF they build the new center in the TS lot there is a way for them to tie both that and GW together as a much more attractive "Disney" property. My gut tells me that Disney-fying it would instantly help it and attract tenants. Downtown Disney really only shrunk because of the planned hotel right?

Downtown Disney has always been pretty busy, but it seemingly hasn't helped them attract tenants. Yeah, they lost AMC and Rainforest due to the botched hotel plan, but also think about all the retail space that got commandeered by Disney outlets selling more of the same product from World of Disney or the now two Starbucks locations that took up retail space.

So would Disneyfying GardenWalk mean building another iteration of World of Disney? The Disney Home Store? The Wonderground Gallery? The Disney Dress Shop? Marceline's Confectionary? Disney Pin Trader's Outpost?

If those are the things driving the success of Downtown Disney, then wouldn't duplicating them in Gardenwalk just end up cannibalizing their success? Does Anaheim really need more of the same Disney stores?

It's always going to be a question of how much retail Anaheim as a resort, in total can support, and if GardenWalk is the indication... it's less than what Anaheim currently has.

 

[Ismael Flores]

I thought that maybe these would help in the conversation about the pieces of land in discussion. Here are the approximate acreage for each plot of land.

Note that even though some bloggers insist that the Toy Story lot is too small for a third park that seems incorrect. In some of the video i have seen they have been using DCA as a comparison to Toy Story lot but neglect to remove that acreage being used by the hotel when comparing sizes.

according to this measuring Device The Toy Story lot is big enough to build a park the size of Toy Story and also have an additional 9 acres for back of house. It is too bad they did not try and buy the land east of this plot that contains a mobile home park. If i remember correctly that land went up for sale a while back. My guess is that Disney did not want to get involve in the dispute going on about making that plot of land a low income housing development.

DCA = 67.86 acres

Toy Story Lot = 76.30 acres (Approximately 9 acres bigger)

OTHER LOTS BEING DISCUSSED

Possible DCA expansion area illustrated in Drawing = 34.13 acres

Possible Disneyland expansion area illustrated in Drawing = 18.41 acres

GardenWalk area not counting the hotel properties or fire department building = 16.79 acres

 

[Ismael Flores]

I guess I don’t mind TSI so much because I can hardly remember what it was like without it. Did they remove stuff to add the Pirate stuff? It was it mostly just additions? I personally don’t care for the Pirate stuff but it doesn’t bother me either. I would prefer classic TSI though. I do like the spinning wheel that brings up the treasure(?) Was that there before or is that “new?” All I can remember from when I was a kid is the swaying bridge. Then I pretty much didn’t go back there for about 25 years.

I believe most of the fun stuff that was removed was mostly because of fear of lawsuits. They were simple play areas that in our time no one would consider a threat. Now everything has to be pretty much stupid proof or better yet lawsuit proof. Wouldn't want little Timmy scratching his poor knee. The caves are pretty much the same except for the added pirate effects and the larger additions like the shripwreck didn't replace much of anything.

The fort was gone before that because of Fantasmic

 

[Ismael Flores]

I agree with the first part. After seeing what Disney's been doing over the past decade, anyone who thinks this expansion arm of Disneyland isn't going to be a couple of IP lands with possible clones is really fooling themselves. Expanding Disneyland to the west would cheapen the park.

So then if they don't expand Disneyland, but expand DCA (like everyone is claiming is needed), then you can only expand DCA so much. It can't utilize that entire west side...it would be too big. So then you'd have to fill in the northern part of the west side with a hotel or more shops or a redesign of DTD or a DisneyQuest or whatever. If you wanted all of that west side to be theme park, BUT feel expanding DL would be bad, then a third park is more favorable.

Let me tell you the problem with DCA. It's NOT that it needs expanding, but reengineering. Disneyland has more attractions per square foot due to better planning, and (at least when Tomorrowland was in its heyday) better attraction layering.

View attachment 543141

The red zone is approx. 40% of the park. How many attractions are in that red zone? Two? Three if you count the Redwood Challange (how many people spend time in there?). Three attractions for 40% of the park? Yikes!

I like Pacific Pier, but that area (plus the winery north of it) has no attractions but is the same size as Fantasyland from the castle to the storybook land and there are 10 attractions there.

Sure, you can argue DL has large areas with few attractions (subs/autopia, Rivers of America, even Galaxy's Edge) but I think DCA is far worse when it comes to attractions per acre.

So okay, they expand DCA west, but given how Disney currently thinks how many additional attractions would we get? Two? Three? Yeah, it's not all about attractions as I love other aspects of the parks, but I still think DCA can expand and grow within its own current confinements before needing to expand west.

All I'm saying is if they do expand DL and DCA west it'd better be friggin' good because I don't want to hear years of complaining if it's not. I already hear enough about GE and AC (or even the lackluster nature of Enchanted Tales of BatB).

I have always talked about how DCA lacks Layering for better use of the land. I still don't understand how a midget autopia somehow wasn't built within Carsland but its difficult to compare it with Disneyland when it comes up to build. Disneyland has large sections of the park that were built way before many of the new code restrictions. There is no way they would be able to build a section of the park in DCA that for example would be like the old Fantasyland. The brilliant design of being able to put five attractions within such a small footprint by build on top of eachother and using every little corner available. If they were to build that now they would have to include space between the tracks and show sets for escape route that allow room for Disable people to use mobility devices. If they ever make the mistake of closing down one of the fantasyland rides it would be the biggest mistake they could do. The only thing that would fit in those small show buildings would be a small store.

I do believe that WDI has lost touch in some of their design choices. The huge show buildings made for attractions BATB and MMRR seem to be a waste of show space. The gimmick of having cars rolling around a large empty wherehouse with show scenes against the wall are a bad choice. Just have thes evehicles use paths like they used to and get away from large projected showrooms.It worked to WOW people in the Galaxy Edge ride but does not in the BATB or MMRR rides.

 

[chadwpalm]

That’s a good point on the lack of attractions in a good chunk of the park at DCA. Although that seems to be how they build these days. See Galaxies Edge. So if I’m following, you re saying it makes more sense to build a third park instead of expanding DL and DCA? I just look at that layout and doesn’t say third park to me. Mayyyyybe if they demolished the two hotels which isn’t happening. Otherwise its a small, awkward layout with two existing hotels in the middle. I guess you could argue the expansions would face the same dilemma except one major difference- expectations are much different. A couple expansions across the street can likely only be met with praise by the masses. It will be harder to meet or surpass expectations with a third park. So my vote is for a DCA expansion and whatever the heck they want to do with Toy Story lot they can do. I don’t want a Disneyland expansion. They should focus on Tomorrowland and the areas they can build in Disneyland proper before worrying about Zootopia or Moana land.

I'm not necessarily saying it makes more sense to do a third park, but agreeing with you about not wanting a Disneyland expansion. MoonRakerSCM made a good point above about the 9 acres above Galaxy's Edge that was added to the concept art. There's plenty of room there for another land if they want to add to Disneyland, but I also agree things within Disneyland (like Tomorrowland) need to be considered. I love the Sub lagoon (not necessarily the current attraction), but if that and Autopia had to go then we have more internal expansion there.

My argument for DCA was that square footage-wise there is still a lot of dead space within DCA to add attractions before expanding west.

Regarding the hotels, my first post outlined a replacement hotel to the north of the expansion area if they wanted to go the third park route considering the PPH would eventually be able to be demolished sometime in the future.

 

[BayouShack]

It’s an interesting idea and good for crowd flow but it does kind of ruin the set up of it all. Going under the tracks, down Main Street and to the castle. All of that was designed with a purpose. I guess the monorail into TL already deviated from that except it’s in theme and technically you aren’t walking in. Walking into “Disneyland” from esplanade 2 straight into whatever single IP land can’t possibly be as beautifully designed as the Disneyland entrance. It’s not like they have the room there for another “park entrance land.” And even if they do I doubt that’s how they want to use a good chunk of land. I guess you just have to remind yourself that it’s just some new land addition but I think of the tourists and first timers whose first experience at Disneyland may be walking into Zootopia land from Esplanade 2.

You’d hope that they’d at least open the second entrance an hour or two after park opening. Heck, if Disneyland does become that big they could probably get away with staggering ride openings to save operating costs.

I wonder if the inclusion of the parade route, and what appears to be a viewing area for a lake show, are indicative of a desire to move DL entertainment to a space more suited to the crowds. You can do so much more with Disneyland proper if you don’t need to worry about parades. You get all that MS backstage space, and tiered platforms by Small World. You could probably even move the parade building behind MF:Target Run across Magic Way and use that space as expansion (and as others have pointed out, that area is included as “Disneyland” on the map).

I’ve always thought Disneyland should give up on parades and let DCA handle the mess. So I’m hopeful that it’s something actually being considered, because it’s smart. How often are there two daytime parades going on between the two parks? Not very often.