News Disneyland Working on Future Master Plan- includes Theme Park Expansions, Retail/Entertainment Space, and More!

[fctiger]

And what happens when all of these extra people try to watch the fireworks in front of Sleeping Beauty Castle?

And Islands of Adventure is not Universal Studios Florida, but the visitation pattern is one where they are treated as a singular destination. There is no reason that Disney’s California Adventure could not be built up to be a compelling destination that draws attendance that is far closer to that of Disneyland.

LOL, OK, this is now just getting tiring now. Guys don't kill the messenger. I didn't come up with the idea.

But DL is a very very popular theme park obviously. One that they want its attendance to only grow. DCA was actually meant to do that, but it stumbled out of the gate badly and it will never equal the popularity or demand the original park has.

The funny thing is we keep hearing DL can't be a local park (and I think it truly is....for literally these discussions.) But in order for it to draw more tourists the entire areas just needs to grow. Unfortunately we are not WDW, our options are limited. But clearly I'm talking to mostly locals who would show up 50 times a year if nothing changed in the park from 1990 on.

But for you to grab others, then yeah, you have to grow. I use to write entire essays about this on MC back in the day. But they want tourists like any place. They have us locals, right? We're going no matter what. But we're not the reason they are doing ANY of this. They have our money already, even when we moan about the place. They want the people who come and spend 2-3 days in the resort to eventually stay 4-5 days there. How do you do that with such a tiny footprint? Are tourists important or not?

Especially now that Disney is oddly competing with itself every year as it builds out more theme parks worldwide.

 

[lazyboy97o]

LOL, OK, this is now just getting tiring now. Guys don't kill the messenger. I didn't come up with the idea.

But DL is a very very popular theme park obviously. One that they want its attendance to only grow. DCA was actually meant to do that, but it stumbled out of the gate badly and it will never equal the popularity or demand the original park has.

The funny thing is we keep hearing DL can't be a local park (and I think it truly is....for literally these discussions.) But in order for it to draw more tourists the entire areas just needs to grow. Unfortunately we are not WDW, our options are limited. But clearly I'm talking to mostly locals who would show up 50 times a year if nothing changed in the park from 1990 on.

But for you to grab others, then yeah, you have to grow. Especially now that Disney is oddly competing with itself every year as it builds out more theme parks worldwide.

Why can’t Disney’s California Adventure be as popular? If this is true then more Disney’s California Adventure but glued onto Disneyland isn’t going to work.

I‘m not a local.

 

[fctiger]

Why can’t Disney’s California Adventure be as popular? If this is true then more Disney’s California Adventure but glued onto Disneyland isn’t going to work.

I‘m not a local.

Because it's not the 65 year old park Walt Disney built with his own hands and walked the land. C'mon man, you know this lol. DL has been treated like some religious outing for theme park fans forever now.

I'm not saying DCA can't be popular, it's popular now. What I'm saying is do you think most people are still willing to pay $130 for it like you are wiling to pay for DL? We know the answer to that. It's why APs will never go away in some form. Every theme park in the world doesn't cost as much to get in as DL, including all the other Disney parks. Because none just doesn't have the mystic, nostalgia and yes rides like DL does. Ironically this entire expansion is another way to do that, but DL will always be the main draw for a reason.

My apologies for thinking you are a local.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

Things could be much, much worse. With this initiative, we clearly see management is too afraid of the backlash from touching the original park, especially when it comes to protecting the staples of DLR. Take for example, even the new JC refurbishment, which is an investment into one of the parks main staple attractions, whether you're for the change or against it. The same can be said for Snow White. They're not planning on doing away with any of these staples anytime soon, and very possibly never will. These investments show they care enough about these staples to keep them around for the long term. They're too afraid of limiting themselves for good reason, and this new expansion, whatever it may be, seems like its going to be designed with flexibility, rightfully so.

My only hope, is that they're not trying to turn DLR into WDW. DLR relies on its intimacy and history, when compared to WDW, relying on being the hottest vacation destination (which, isn't necessarily a bad thing, though imho DLR shouldn't ever be on any type of comparable level with WDW for said reasons above).

 

[Brer Oswald]

In 2019 DL was the second most visited park in the world. MK beat it out, but by only 2 million. That park got 20 million people while DL got 18 million. For the first time EVER, it beat out Tokyo Disneyland. The first time in over 20 years. They clearly want all these parks to get higher attendance, the only way to do that is to create a roomier park with more lands and rides.

Dude I have suggested ALL those things here where they can build in the park, literally just two weeks ago. And people still push back on it lol. The original park just has too much nostalgia. Even for DCA, that's starting to build in. That's the problem. People treat the park like its a museum. Can you imagine someone ever suggesting knocking down POTC? Can you ever knock that down? If the answer is no, then that literally goes to the point. It's no longer just an attraction, it's now a sacred landmark like the Stature of Liberty or Yosemite.

A minority of fans will always defend knocking down the waste spots that barely attract anyone. But if they aren’t pulling their weight, yes they should be replaced.

But you don’t go around and propose they tear down Pirates, a ride that, 50 years later, has miraculously remained popular and eats people like a machine. That would be a stupid decision. Most of the rides they we created in the last 20 years fail to remain beloved for more than 5 years, and the ones that do are usually thrill rides that are awful for capacity and only serve to attract people to the park (which is far more valuable for a park like DCA rather than a park that already has so much).

 

[KentNelson]

Just say hello to everybody and say that I think we can clearly see the Shanghai Disneyland's Jet Packs/Orbitron in the concept art (blue ball surrounded by purple lights on the right of the concept art. It's weird because in Shangai it is related to Tron Coaster but in the art is located in the "Fantasy Springs/Disneyland expansion" area instead on the DCA's expansion.

 

[fctiger]

It's an awful saying, truly. It was even quoted by Kim Irvine in that Imagineering series she ruined on Disney Plus. What a piece of work that one is. I don't even agree with the interpretation of Walt's "Disneyland will never be complete" quote. That doesn't mean they should just change everything. What do we end up with? Biege rocks, downtown Baghdad junkyard, Xbox games and Redd the Oirish chicken lady.

They're not 'changing everything'. That's the irony about all of this. When Walt Disney died in 1965, how many attractions that were either there or he approved of later are still there? About 90% I'm guessing. The ONLY major attraction that I can recall they closed was the Mine train car for BTM in the 70s. But outside of that, what else have they removed in terms of major attractions?

I don't think a single attraction in Fantasyland has ever been touched. Every ride there AFAIK was either there at opening or came relatively soon after it.

The irony is the most changes DL ever got was it's first ten years of opening because obviously it was still new but Disney himself had no problem changing and replacing the park of what he saw fit. But of course the other issue is he still had tons of room to build basically anything he wanted as well.

Today that is no longer the case. It hasn't been that way in 30 years. It's literally why the biggest E-ticket in the park, Indiana Jones was also built outside the berm. Funny enough so is POTC and HM, they are just creatively done like Indy was where at least part of it the queue and set up is still inside.

 

[Miru]

It's an awful saying, truly. It was even quoted by Kim Irvine in that Imagineering series she ruined on Disney Plus. What a piece of work that one is. I don't even agree with the interpretation of Walt's "Disneyland will never be complete" quote. That doesn't mean they should just change everything. What do we end up with? Biege rocks, downtown Baghdad junkyard, Xbox games and Redd the Oirish chicken lady.

Heck, not even that Xbox thing... I would have loved a proper meetable Sora. Is Irvine perhaps even worse than Pressler?

 

[fctiger]

A minority of fans will always defend knocking down the waste spots that barely attract anyone. But if they aren’t pulling their weight, yes they should be replaced.

But you don’t go around and propose they tear down Pirates, a ride that, 50 years later, has miraculously remained popular and eats people like a machine. That would be a stupid decision. Most of the rides they we created in the last 20 years fail to remain beloved for more than 5 years, and the ones that do are usually thrill rides that are awful for capacity and only serve to attract people to the park (which is far more valuable for a park like DCA rather than a park that already has so much).

Hence literally why they want to expand.

And obviously I'm not suggesting they knock it down. It's my mother's favorite ride, I would never hear the end of it ilol. But you literally just proved my point. People look at some of these rides as practically sacred. People get offended over the museum label, but if you can't knock down RIDES, then yes, this is what we're talking about.

Now all that said, Disney can pretty much knock down anything and people will stomp their feet, write multiple essays why it goes against God and nature but end of the day will still go. I can't think of a single attraction in my40 years of going to these parks that was taken away that convinced me not to go back. There will never be a single ride that does that for anyone hopefully because DL has always been more than the sum of its parts.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Heck, not even that Xbox thing... I would have loved a proper meetable Sora. Is Irvine perhaps even worse than Pressler?

I think he was talking about the Xbox game stations inside Star Wars Launch Bay.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

But outside of that, what else have they removed in terms of major attractions?

These aren't all major attractions, but..

-Skyway
-Motor Boat Cruise
-Mike Fink River Boats
-Fantasyland Autopia
-Adventures Thru Inner Space
-Carrousel of Progress
-People Mover
-Swiss Family Robinson
-Circle Vision
-Flight to the Moon
-The entire Indian Village area

I wouldn't really call the modern versions of Tom Sawyer Island and Submarine Voyage as having much to do with the Walt versions. Both spinners (Dumbo and Tomorrowland), Autopia, and all the Fantasyland dark rides have all been completely/almost completely been rebuilt from scratch, but I'd say they're spiritually the same as what was there before.

 

[mickEblu]

So my third gate idea wasn't necessarily because I advocate it, but just to Blue Sky an alternative. I'd honestly be fine either way, but I'll just throw this out.

It's been argued multiple times that Galaxy's Edge and Avengers Campus should have been in a third gate. Who's to say that if they merely expanded DL to the west it wouldn't end up being a couple of IP lands like a Frozen Land or Toy Story Land? To me, that's far worse than a third gate. It's interesting that now that there's a possibility they can expand the parks you're all now okay with IP lands going into DL and DCA? Do you truly believe you're gonna get a Discovery Bay and not a Frozen Land?

This would be the first opportunity for a third park to actually be close to the other two parks without leaving the Disney bubble. At the end of the day, does it really matter if new lands and attractions are in a third park or in expanded existing parks? Most people here are probably multi-day vacationers or AP holders, so gates really shouldn't matter.

Anyway, I can understand why for some people DCA is not an all-day park, but at least 4 of my trips in the last 8 years I've been able to squeeze out a full day at DCA. Everyone's different I guess, but as a vacationer, I usually go when it is moderately more crowded and I like to do stuff like see the Frozen show, draw a character in the Animation Academy, spend a nice dining hour at Ariel's Grotto (now Lamplight Lounge), see World of Color which you have to wait at least an hour before anyway.

I don't argue DCA doesn't need some expansion, but with the Avengers E-ticket, maybe a dark ride near Pixar Pier, and if the eastern gateway were to come to fruition and they can expand north into the transportation hub, that's another 3 or 4 attractions right there.

But like I said, I'm good either way.

Yeah after the initial excitement settled I began to realize I don’t want to see a DL expansion. The risk is not worth the reward. I’ve said for years that the I consider the West side of the park to be pretty much perfect with the exception of Pooh and Tarzans Treehouse. They could declare the West side of the park a museum today and I would be happy. So to alter that part of the park for the likes of Toy Story land, Zootopia land or whatever other single IP lands they can cook up sounds terrible.

Now DCA on the other hand I’m all for it. Literally nothing to lose. The path would come somewhere from Pixar Pier/ Incredicoaster/ Emotional Whirlwind area so nothing too important is being altered and unlike Disneyland, DCA needs an expansion. The thought of going over a bridge to some new lands sounds great. Put whatever single IP lands you want there. Not only is it not Disneyland but it’s not even DCA proper.

 

[Miru]

These aren't all major attractions, but..

-Skyway
-Motor Boat Cruise
-Mike Fink River Boats
-Fantasyland Autopia
-Adventures Thru Inner Space
-Carrousel of Progress
-People Mover
-Swiss Family Robinson
-Circle Vision
-Flight to the Moon
-The entire Indian Village area

I wouldn't really call the modern versions of Tom Sawyer Island and Submarine Voyage as having much to do with the Walt versions. Both spinners (Dumbo and Tomorrowland), Autopia, and all the Fantasyland dark rides have all been completely/almost completely been rebuilt from scratch, but I'd say they're spiritually the same as what was there before.

Many would argue the newest Snow White would be in the same category as the subs, actually.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

Not negative.... We've been officially labeled as a "Hive of Miserable B@$tards". Get it right!

And someone named me "Sleazy Rodent of the Evening". However, I do object to being called a "Miserable B@$tard". As the certified love child here (with DNA test to prove it) I may be a b@$tard, but I am far from miserable. I think I'm quite a happy b@$tard. Quite jolly, even. OK, I might go with cranky or snarky, but far from miserable.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Yeah after the initial excitement settled I began to realize I don’t want to see a DL expansion. The risk is not worth the reward. I’ve said for years that the I consider the West side of the park to be pretty much perfect with the exception of Pooh and Tarzans Treehouse. They could declare the West side of the park a museum today and I would be happy. So to alter that part of the park for the likes of Toy Story land, Zootopia land or whatever other single IP lands they can cook up sounds terrible.

I agree. It’s mostly great stuff. The cherry on top would be a great Pooh ride (like Honey Hunt) and the Swiss Family Treehouse. But that side of the park is only going to get more cheaper and more “Disney” (more cringe 2000s-2010 era stuff).

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Many would argue the newest Snow White would be in the same category as the subs, actually.

You still go through the mines, dodge the witch, and presumably the Witch is still trying to topple a boulder onto our heads. I'd say it's close enough, even if I'll miss the spooky forest.

Yeah after the initial excitement settled I began to realize I don’t want to see a DL expansion. The risk is not worth the reward. I’ve said for years that the I consider the West side of the park to be pretty much perfect with the exception of Pooh and Tarzans Treehouse. They could declare the West side of the park a museum today and I would be happy.

I'd add TSI to that list too, the pirate theming just does not go well with the western feel of the rest of the island (except for the caves which are still great), along with less overall activities on the island.

Plus it sucks how the backstage for Fantasmic just keeps encroaching on the island more and more.

 

[fctiger]

These aren't all major attractions, but..

-Skyway
-Motor Boat Cruise
-Mike Fink River Boats
-Fantasyland Autopia
-Adventures Thru Inner Space
-Carrousel of Progress
-People Mover
-Swiss Family Robinson
-Circle Vision
-Flight to the Moon
-The entire Indian Village area

I wouldn't really call the modern versions of Tom Sawyer Island and Submarine Voyage as having much to do with the Walt versions. Both spinners (Dumbo and Tomorrowland), Autopia, and all the Fantasyland dark rides have all been completely/almost completely been rebuilt from scratch, but I'd say they're spiritually the same as what was there before.

And none of those are major attractions either. I do still miss the People Movers and Skyway though. And most of these just became outdated. Can you imagine having Flight to the Moon or Adventures through Inner Space today? They were fun for their time, but today, they would feel like relics.

And my guess is most of these just saw falling attendance.

 

[mickEblu]

You still go through the mines, dodge the witch, and presumably the Witch is still trying to topple a boulder onto our heads. I'd say it's close enough, even if I'll miss the spooky forest.

I'd add TSI to that list too, the pirate theming just does not go well with the western feel of the rest of the island (except for the caves which are still great), along with less overall activities on the island.

Plus it sucks how the backstage for Fantasmic just keeps encroaching on the island more and more.

I guess I don’t mind TSI so much because I can hardly remember what it was like without it. Did they remove stuff to add the Pirate stuff? It was it mostly just additions? I personally don’t care for the Pirate stuff but it doesn’t bother me either. I would prefer classic TSI though. I do like the spinning wheel that brings up the treasure(?) Was that there before or is that “new?” All I can remember from when I was a kid is the swaying bridge. Then I pretty much didn’t go back there for about 25 years.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

And none of those are major attractions either. I do still miss the People Movers and Skyway though. And most of these just became outdated. Can you imagine having Flight to the Moon or Adventures through Inner Space today? They were fun for their time, but today, they would feel like relics.

And my guess is most of these just saw falling attendance.

In the case of the Motor Boat Cruise and the Skyway their operation costs were diverted to Mickey's Toontown and Indiana Jones respectively. Mike Fink was deemed too dangerous (and costly) to operate.

 

[fctiger]

In the case of the Motor Boat Cruise and the Skyway their operation costs were diverted to Mickey's Toontown and Indiana Jones respectively. Mike Fink was deemed too dangerous (and costly) to operate.

Interesting thank you! And the Motor Boats sucked. You couldn't even steer them, just press on the gas. It is odd though all this time and they still have not done anything in that area.